Modifying Stronglifts

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

So I have been running stronglifts for about 7-8 weeks and would like to adjust it. First thing is squats. During my last one or two sets on my final reps i have the tendency to lunge forward, putting more pressure on my back. This is because of weakish quads, because if my quadriceps were stronger and I had more anterior strength I would not be leaning forward. This is also what it FEELS like to me. Squatting 3x a week, can I afford to add in some extra quad work? I lift tuesday, thursday, and saturday. I would like to add in 5x5 front squats once a week to combat this but im unsure if I can do that.

I am also having problems with my deadlift. My deadlift stalled a little while ago because I had no more grip strength. No biggie, I deloaded, and added 2 sets of static holds after my deadlift days. This helped and I managed to increase my deadlift but it didn’t take me long to hit a wall with grip strength again. My actual body feels like it can deadlift the weight all day, but the bar falls out of my hands after a measly 2 reps.

Personal trainer saw me sitting there after my failed deadlift set with my head down in shame and gave me some tips. About squats he told me to add in some leg press or front squats. About deadlifting after I mentioned straps he said he recommended just making my grip stronger, which is pretty much agreeing with my philosophy.

I deadlift once or twice a week (alternate between 2 workouts, i go gym 3 times a week) and I only do static holds on my deadlift day. My last hope is to deload deadlift once again, start doing static holds 3x a week, and go from there.

If that doesn’t work then I’m ready to buy straps unless anyone here has a better idea…

2

Don’t do quad work… your legs are getting enough work as it is.

You can do grip work (there are a couple programs on this site). Static holds will do more for your endurance than actual strength. Alternatively or concurrently, you could look into chalk, gloves, or even straps.

3

Thanks I will actually look into grip programs surprised I haven’t thought of that. I don’t think static holds would be purely for endurance, I do a weight which I can hold for 30-40 seconds. i add 2.5kg per hand every session.

I squat 75kg, deadlift 95kg. My deadlift is relatively low it can be so much higher if I had the grip strength.

curious guys, how big would my calves have to be to start to look good? I’ve gained 3 inches on my calves theyre sitting at 16" at the moment and still look like sticks. Would they start to look semi respectable at the 19-20" range? My other measurements are 24" quads, 13" arms pretty small. 6’2

4

If you’re leaning forward in the squat you are probably either:
-dropping your head and/or chest
-it is another form issue, such as not staying tight or raising the hips too quickly.
-you have a weak area in the posterior (could even be your abdominals too, but doubt it).

Post another video of what you’re talking about.

The leg work in Stronglifts is plenty for your quads. If you want to add in front squats, add them in on your Day 2 “light” squat day in place of doing regular squats. Program them the same way as far as percentages are concerned (using your front squat RM).

As far as your grip, are you using a mixed grip? If so, you can use a clean grip on all of your sets but your heaviest of sets. Experiment with it of course, try using a clean grip on all sets under 80%. Also, heavy barbell rows have helped improve my grip in the past too.

5

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Thanks I will actually look into grip programs surprised I haven’t thought of that. I don’t think static holds would be purely for endurance, I do a weight which I can hold for 30-40 seconds. i add 2.5kg per hand every session.

I squat 75kg, deadlift 95kg. My deadlift is relatively low it can be so much higher if I had the grip strength.

curious guys, how big would my calves have to be to start to look good? I’ve gained 3 inches on my calves theyre sitting at 16" at the moment and still look like sticks. Would they start to look semi respectable at the 19-20" range? My other measurements are 24" quads, 13" arms pretty small. 6’2[/quote]

There is absolutely zero reason to not use straps in your training. Why would you rob other much larger muscles from performing just because of your grip. Learn to use the mixed grip, pull all your warmups without straps, then strap up for your working set(s). Then after a while, one tweak I made was instead of a final set of 5 on deads, do 2x3, with the first set strapless, the second set with straps. Take only a minute or two rest between these two.

6

Unless your goal is to compete in powerlifting, I would use straps on deadlifts. Hell, even if that is your goal, I would still use straps. I see no benefit to limiting oneself to their grip strength for an exercise that taxes the entire body, you won’t be getting a lot of benefit from it.

Definitely work to improve grip strength outside of deadlifting. Captains of Crush grippers worked well for me, and these days I do timed holds double overhand with the barbell.

7

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
So I have been running stronglifts for about 7-8 weeks and would like to adjust it. First thing is squats. During my last one or two sets on my final reps i have the tendency to lunge forward, putting more pressure on my back. This is because of weakish quads, because if my quadriceps were stronger and I had more anterior strength I would not be leaning forward. This is also what it FEELS like to me. Squatting 3x a week, can I afford to add in some extra quad work?[/quote]
So you added sprints about two weeks ago, while squatting three times a week, and you’re now noticing issues with your squat form. I don’t think adding more squats is the solution.

Re-evaluate the volume, intensity, frequency, and timing of the sprints relative to your lifting days. I’d tweak that first before modifying the lifting. Even then, if it’s just an issue of your torso coming forward, I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s an issue of quad weakness. It could be a lot of things - tight hams, weak glutes, weak low back, or even plain ol’ compromised technique due to heavy weights - but weak quads usually aren’t the first culprit.

A video of a heavy set would help.

If this is really accurate, then there’s nothing at all wrong with using straps. I’d only use them on the heaviest set of the day, but they’re fine to use as long as it’s in moderation and with purpose, not as a crutch.

I agree that static holds don’t seem to do much for actual grip strength, unless it’s with a thick bar. And I agree with the idea of pulling double overhand as long as possible and only switching to mixed grip on the heaviest sets. I’d try that or the straps on the last set, not both right off the bat.

16" calves at your height and weight is relatively-big. Don’t sweat it. Like any other muscle, they’re not going to grow much more until you start adding bodyweight. But if you need a ballpark to shoot for, the idea of arms=calves=neck is a long-standing classic physique goal. So a lean, defined 17-18 inches “should” look pretty good, but again it’s all relative.

And actually, I just ran a search on the site and had completely forgotten about this thread. Ha.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/calf_size_of_tnation_readers

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I wouldn’t reccomend straps right away because you don’t have a “grip strength foundation” yet. Db rows and pullups are my biggest tool for grip strength, and I also couldn’t grip the bar more than 3 reps before with a lighter weight than I am using currently. So I would say to increase your grip strength to up your dl numbers before considering straps.

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[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:
I wouldn’t reccomend straps right away because you don’t have a “grip strength foundation” yet. Db rows and pullups are my biggest tool for grip strength, and I also couldn’t grip the bar more than 3 reps before with a lighter weight than I am using currently. So I would say to increase your grip strength to up your dl numbers before considering straps.[/quote]

I am curious: what explicitly are the negatives of a beginner using straps and training their grip directly as it relates to getting bigger and stronger?

10

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
So I have been running stronglifts for about 7-8 weeks and would like to adjust it. First thing is squats. During my last one or two sets on my final reps i have the tendency to lunge forward, putting more pressure on my back. This is because of weakish quads, because if my quadriceps were stronger and I had more anterior strength I would not be leaning forward. This is also what it FEELS like to me.[/quote]

I’m willing to bet you a lot of money that it’s not your quads.

Reset your squat to about 50-60% of your current # and start doing paused squats with extreme attention to form. See what happens.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
If that doesn’t work then I’m ready to buy straps unless anyone here has a better idea…[/quote]

Get chalk. If chalk isn’t allowed then you should use straps. I personally never found any grip work actually useful, but I believe I am a minority on this.

And try DB rows.

11

Evolv - I keep my head up always looking up, I never dip my head down. I only take a quick glance down with my eyes to make sure I am going below parallel (i squat in front of a mirror). My core is very tight im actually very pleased with how tight its gotten last couple of weeks with form tweaks and mental cues. My football player friend was squatting 140kg for reps in the gym the other day. I thought I’d give it a try lol.

I unracked it, but I obviously didn’t have the strength to go down in a controlled manner but even with that weight my core felt solid as a rock. About my posterior, it feels like my posterior muscles (glutes and hammies) are overpowering my anterior muscles (quads) on my ascent, so I start to tip forward. As I break out of the hole, i still look solid. final 60% of the way up though I start to tip forward (this is the time my quads should be taking over more from my posterior muscles).

I will record a video tomorrow. I don’t know what you mean by a light squat day, I don’t have one? Yes I am using a mixed grip. I don’t warmup anymore for deadlifts because I do them straight after squats, which have already warmed up my hammies, glutes, back etc pretty dam well lol. I only do 1 rep of 60kg just to make the form fresh in my mind. Overhand grip for that 1 warmup rep, overhand grip for my working set. I only do 1 working set on stronglifts. About the barbell rows I have noticed myself they they give my forearms a decent workout.

jbpick86 - yeah I agree, I don’t really see a reason not to use straps anymore.

t3hpwnisher - well, I’m not going to let gym consume my life or anything and become a career but I would like to compete in 1 powerlifting meet in my life, and 1 bodybuilding show just for the experience. Other than that it is just going to be a hobby. I will look up that program, thanks.

Chris Colucci - I actually haven’t been sprinting lately lol. After doing it for a short time I decided that its not worth doing while on stronglifts.

Yeah my calves measurement is okay for my height but considering how small they look i still need a few more inches. I also heard about that calves=arm=neck measurement thing, I forgot my neck measurement but my arms and calves have a 3 inch difference and they look pretty proportionate to me.

Magick - Resetting my squat THAT low is more than I am willing to do. As long as I am breaking parallel, and getting back up without catastrophic form then I should still be overloading. My form isn’t that bad there is just slight tipping forward but I am still getting my sets done. Especially because I squat more than my bodyweight now (big achievement) and my old 1rm is now my warmup. I don’t think a deload would really be that necessary?

12

What do you mean by tipping forward? Do you mean that for a moment your weight is on your toes? Or that your hips rise before your back? Are your knees extending before your hips?

I think most people here would disagree that it is your posterior chain that needs more work.

On the off chance that it IS your quads, then continuing to push your squat up will only further exacerbate the problem. Why? because the squat is the most quad dominant exercise on stronglifts, and if you’re doing that exercise in such a way that compensates for lack of quad strength, then you’re cheating yourself.

Deloading, sometimes drastically, is necessary. If you do it now you won’t have to do it later. And working back up to 75kg from 50-60% won’t take nearly as long as working back up to 150kg from 50-60%. Especially if you’re reworking motor patterns in both instances.

Also, why do you do your deads right after your squats? How long is your break in between them?

13

If you want to add in front squats, MAKE a light squat day. You’ve already talked about modifying it more than that by adding in grip work and accessory quad work.

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:
I wouldn’t reccomend straps right away because you don’t have a “grip strength foundation” yet. Db rows and pullups are my biggest tool for grip strength, and I also couldn’t grip the bar more than 3 reps before with a lighter weight than I am using currently. So I would say to increase your grip strength to up your dl numbers before considering straps.[/quote]

I am curious: what explicitly are the negatives of a beginner using straps and training their grip directly as it relates to getting bigger and stronger?[/quote]

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view

15

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

If someone were to use straps and train their grip independently of deadlifts, do you feel that there would still be this issue?

16

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:
I wouldn’t reccomend straps right away because you don’t have a “grip strength foundation” yet. Db rows and pullups are my biggest tool for grip strength, and I also couldn’t grip the bar more than 3 reps before with a lighter weight than I am using currently. So I would say to increase your grip strength to up your dl numbers before considering straps.[/quote]

I am curious: what explicitly are the negatives of a beginner using straps and training their grip directly as it relates to getting bigger and stronger?[/quote]

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

But if using straps allows him to do work in excess of what his grip would allow him to do, ie he pushes his grip as far as it will go then straps up, how would that be inferior to what you are saying do? The only difference would be that he then could further tax the major muscular more completely. I don’t really see the downfall there.

17

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

If someone were to use straps and train their grip independently of deadlifts, do you feel that there would still be this issue?
[/quote]

For me, the 3 main movements that help the most the grip strength/endurance are deadlifts, rows an pullups. If you have a weak grip you’ll notice it mostly in those exercises, and I don’t really believe in specific grip training (farmer’s walk for me is an overall exercise).
Still I’m totally ok with straps, but I think you shouldn’t think about it until later on, once you have respectable grip strength. You don’t want to carry the groceries with straps.
In the beginner stage of training I believe you should work to fix the problems, instead of getting a solution that will hide the weakness. So no, for now HE shouldn’t use straps and then train the grip indepently

18

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:
I wouldn’t reccomend straps right away because you don’t have a “grip strength foundation” yet. Db rows and pullups are my biggest tool for grip strength, and I also couldn’t grip the bar more than 3 reps before with a lighter weight than I am using currently. So I would say to increase your grip strength to up your dl numbers before considering straps.[/quote]

I am curious: what explicitly are the negatives of a beginner using straps and training their grip directly as it relates to getting bigger and stronger?[/quote]

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

But if using straps allows him to do work in excess of what his grip would allow him to do, ie he pushes his grip as far as it will go then straps up, how would that be inferior to what you are saying do? The only difference would be that he then could further tax the major muscular more completely. I don’t really see the downfall there. [/quote]

Maybe there isn’t, I’m just defendimg my opinion. But let’s assume he starts using straps for the most demanding grip exercises. He starts with a 95kg deadlift, if he gets to a 200kg deadlift he will start adding them at 40% 1RM which s ridiculous for me because you’ll still have a weak grip and instead of working through it you kind of hide from the problem. At the end of the day you’re as weak as your weakest link

19

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

For me, the 3 main movements that help the most the grip strength/endurance are deadlifts, rows an pullups. If you have a weak grip you’ll notice it mostly in those exercises, and I don’t really believe in specific grip training (farmer’s walk for me is an overall exercise).
Still I’m totally ok with straps, but I think you shouldn’t think about it until later on, once you have respectable grip strength. You don’t want to carry the groceries with straps.
In the beginner stage of training I believe you should work to fix the problems, instead of getting a solution that will hide the weakness. So no, for now HE shouldn’t use straps and then train the grip indepently[/quote]

I totally understand that you have a firm belief in what one should and should not do in this situation. What I was asking was more if you think someone would run into the issues you describe if they spent the time training their grip independently. I feel like explicitly working to make your grip stronger would actually be totally in agreement with your philosophy, because it would mean completely acknowledging that you have a weakness and spending extra time and energy fixing it rather than ignoring it.

I definitely agree with you that farmer’s walks are not a grip exercise. I feel like that’s more on board with the issue I’m describing: people not taking the time to actually train the grip. Instead of training the grip by doing other movements, I am a big advocate on actually specifically training the grip, like a strongman and grip athlete would: with grippers, timed holds, and other such exercises.

20

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Magick - Resetting my squat THAT low is more than I am willing to do. As long as I am breaking parallel, and getting back up without catastrophic form then I should still be overloading. My form isn’t that bad there is just slight tipping forward but I am still getting my sets done. Especially because I squat more than my bodyweight now (big achievement) and my old 1rm is now my warmup. I don’t think a deload would really be that necessary?[/quote]

The sooner you learn that resetting can lead to good results, the better. I’ve personally found myself coming back stronger and faster every time I reset the squat after a couple of months. Either involuntary or voluntary, I always come back stronger.

In any case, I believe that all squat newbies should be doing paused squats up till 225lb or something. More than anything else it teaches you what good form FEELS like and trains your core to stay upright. So, when you start using the stretch reflex and maybe even bouncing, your form still remains good.