Modifying Stronglifts

Training
21

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Magick - Resetting my squat THAT low is more than I am willing to do. As long as I am breaking parallel, and getting back up without catastrophic form then I should still be overloading. My form isn’t that bad there is just slight tipping forward but I am still getting my sets done. Especially because I squat more than my bodyweight now (big achievement) and my old 1rm is now my warmup. I don’t think a deload would really be that necessary?[/quote]

The sooner you learn that resetting can lead to good results, the better. I’ve personally found myself coming back stronger and faster every time I reset the squat after a couple of months. Either involuntary or voluntary, I always come back stronger.

In any case, I believe that all squat newbies should be doing paused squats up till 225lb or something. More than anything else it teaches you what good form FEELS like and trains your core to stay upright. So, when you start using the stretch reflex and maybe even bouncing, your form still remains good.[/quote]

I think resetting in general is a terrible idea, but I honestly like the way you directed him to implement it, by changing to a different movement. I think there is a ton of value there in making progress, even if it’s just minor changes. Something simple, like going from squats to pause squats, or low bar to high bar, or normal stance to wide or narrow, can go a long way, to say nothing of more substantial changes, like back to front or barbell to safety squat bar.

22

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

If someone were to use straps and train their grip independently of deadlifts, do you feel that there would still be this issue?
[/quote]

I think the issue is one of maintaining the grip training.

I can see how it can be extremely tempting to let grip training slide for a few months because, while I don’t deny its importance, it’s just not as fun as the big lifts and it doesn’t hold you back much if you have straps. I know that this is tempting because I find it to be so.

That being said, if the training methodology is implemented properly, I see absolutely nothing wrong with training grip separately for powerlifting, and actually prefer it that way.

23

I can’t imagine training ever being fun, haha. That said, I definitely agree with you, the training is only effective if you do it.

24

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

I definitely agree with you that farmer’s walks are not a grip exercise. I feel like that’s more on board with the issue I’m describing: people not taking the time to actually train the grip. Instead of training the grip by doing other movements, I am a big advocate on actually specifically training the grip, like a strongman and grip athlete would: with grippers, timed holds, and other such exercises. [/quote]
I totally agree with you IF you have goals that must include grip training( strongman, arm wrestling). So if you want to compete in that kind of sports you should take the time to train your grip, which you should do if it is the limiting factor in a lift, what I am not in favour is using straps to hide a weakness instead of working it, up to a certain point.

About taking the time to actually train the grip indepently, I also agree if it is a weakness in any given moment or if your goals match the need to actually do it, but personally, if all you want is to perform better and don’t have all the time of the world I’d rather train the grip in a more “economic” way, but I have a tennis background and grip hasn’t really been an issue for me

25

Leaning forward may be a few things, but in my experience your ass is going out far enough on the way down and you are not keeping your chest up throughout the movement. You are compounding the problem by not keeping your center of gravity on your heals.

26

is not*

27

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:
I totally agree with you IF you have goals that must include grip training( strongman, arm wrestling). So if you want to compete in that kind of sports you should take the time to train your grip, which you should do if it is the limiting factor in a lift, what I am not in favour is using straps to hide a weakness instead of working it, up to a certain point.

About taking the time to actually train the grip indepently, I also agree if it is a weakness in any given moment or if your goals match the need to actually do it, but personally, if all you want is to perform better and don’t have all the time of the world I’d rather train the grip in a more “economic” way, but I have a tennis background and grip hasn’t really been an issue for me[/quote]

Thank you for this. I am inferring from this post that you also feel that, in turn, using straps at this stage and then working the grip specifically would not be hiding a weakness, since it means one is specifically addressing the weakness. Am I correct here?

28

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

I just think one should start using straps further ahead in training for 2 main reasons:
1-he doesn’t have enough grip strength yet in order to be able to forget that point in training and overcoming his weakness in the lift just by using a tool that won’t help fix the problem directly, instead it will be running away from the problem.

2-if it really helps him immediatly, it may become the solution for every weakness related to grip, such as in pullups, rows, which won’t allow him to build that grip strength he is lacking.
I’m just more in favour of adding straps further ahead in training once you can hold a respectable amount of weight in your hands.
Just my point of view
[/quote]

If someone were to use straps and train their grip independently of deadlifts, do you feel that there would still be this issue?
[/quote]

For me, the 3 main movements that help the most the grip strength/endurance are deadlifts, rows an pullups. If you have a weak grip you’ll notice it mostly in those exercises, and I don’t really believe in specific grip training (farmer’s walk for me is an overall exercise).
Still I’m totally ok with straps, but I think you shouldn’t think about it until later on, once you have respectable grip strength. You don’t want to carry the groceries with straps.
In the beginner stage of training I believe you should work to fix the problems, instead of getting a solution that will hide the weakness. So no, for now HE shouldn’t use straps and then train the grip indepently[/quote]

I agree that straps should not be overused, I am advocating for the tapping out of the grip before even bringing straps into play. All warmups (and since he is on SL these should get progressively heavier), and some of the working set weights. I will say though, that dedicated grip training has improved my grip exponentially faster than just letting it develop through other exercises. Seriously considering ordering one of the CoC’s as the grip trainer I have now is not very heavy and getting its usefulness maxed out.

29

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

I agree that straps should not be overused, I am advocating for the tapping out of the grip before even bringing straps into play. All warmups (and since he is on SL these should get progressively heavier), and some of the working set weights. I will say though, that dedicated grip training has improved my grip exponentially faster than just letting it develop through other exercises. Seriously considering ordering one of the CoC’s as the grip trainer I have now is not very heavy and getting its usefulness maxed out.
[/quote]

Captains of Crush are awesome; well worth the investment. You can do a ton of stuff with them too to really maximize 1 or 2 grippers. Reps are the most obvious, but things like timed holds, forced holds (use two hands to get the gripper closed and one hand to hold it there), grease the groove, pyramidding/ladders, drop sets, etc. I haven’t really found a wrong way to use them, and you can just keep them at work and plug away when you have down time.

30

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

I agree that straps should not be overused, I am advocating for the tapping out of the grip before even bringing straps into play. All warmups (and since he is on SL these should get progressively heavier), and some of the working set weights. I will say though, that dedicated grip training has improved my grip exponentially faster than just letting it develop through other exercises. Seriously considering ordering one of the CoC’s as the grip trainer I have now is not very heavy and getting its usefulness maxed out.
[/quote]

Captains of Crush are awesome; well worth the investment. You can do a ton of stuff with them too to really maximize 1 or 2 grippers. Reps are the most obvious, but things like timed holds, forced holds (use two hands to get the gripper closed and one hand to hold it there), grease the groove, pyramidding/ladders, drop sets, etc. I haven’t really found a wrong way to use them, and you can just keep them at work and plug away when you have down time.
[/quote]

Yeah, just from this light one I bought at a local supp store I have noticed a more solid feeling in my wrists and hands. Being a desk jockey, carpal tunnel is always an issue and I def can tell that my hands just feel better after a long day of plug and chugging on the computer. Thinking of ordering the set of 3 with the Sport, Trainer, and no. 1. My grip isn’t great and that seemed like a good set for warmups/endurance work, rep work and heavier work. Any advice on them would be appreciated.

31

[quote]nkklllll wrote:
What do you mean by tipping forward? Do you mean that for a moment your weight is on your toes? Or that your hips rise before your back? Are your knees extending before your hips?

I think most people here would disagree that it is your posterior chain that needs more work.

On the off chance that it IS your quads, then continuing to push your squat up will only further exacerbate the problem. Why? because the squat is the most quad dominant exercise on stronglifts, and if you’re doing that exercise in such a way that compensates for lack of quad strength, then you’re cheating yourself.

Deloading, sometimes drastically, is necessary. If you do it now you won’t have to do it later. And working back up to 75kg from 50-60% won’t take nearly as long as working back up to 150kg from 50-60%. Especially if you’re reworking motor patterns in both instances.

Also, why do you do your deads right after your squats? How long is your break in between them?[/quote]
I deadlift after my squats because I am already warmed up. I take as much rest as i feel like, I just do 1-2 light reps of deadlift to get the form fresh in my mind.

Looked up captains of crush on google, I have a pair of similar grippers at home. I can probably do 30 something standard reps with them. Should I start using these? How many times a week? Is 30 reps too light for me, should I buy stronger ones? Or should I do pause reps where I hold the squeeze or whatever?

I did a quick search on ebay for straps they range from like $7 to $40. Do brands and cost matter? is a strap just a strap? I noticed some are like hooks, some wrap around the joint of your thumb, some wrap around the bar. How do I pick a pair of straps?

32

lol, ignore the 30 reps. It seems I have gotten stronger since the last time I used these around christmas time. 70 reps in my right hand, 67 in my left.

33

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Looked up captains of crush on google, I have a pair of similar grippers at home. I can probably do 30 something standard reps with them. Should I start using these? How many times a week? Is 30 reps too light for me, should I buy stronger ones? Or should I do pause reps where I hold the squeeze or whatever?[/quote]

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
lol, ignore the 30 reps. It seems I have gotten stronger since the last time I used these around christmas time. 70 reps in my right hand, 67 in my left.[/quote]

I’d buy stronger grippers. If you can get that many reps to failure then it’d be mainly endurance work, like doing BW squats when your 1RM is 200 kg.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I did a quick search on ebay for straps they range from like $7 to $40. Do brands and cost matter? is a strap just a strap?[/quote]

I find that mostly they’re the same, although I’d recommend looking up how to use them properly. Getting everything in tight can take a couple of attempts at first.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I noticed some are like hooks, some wrap around the joint of your thumb, some wrap around the bar. How do I pick a pair of straps?[/quote]

I honestly hope all types of straps are meant to go around the bar. Are you sure you’re not getting wrist wraps mixed up with straps?

34

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

Thank you for this. I am inferring from this post that you also feel that, in turn, using straps at this stage and then working the grip specifically would not be hiding a weakness, since it means one is specifically addressing the weakness. Am I correct here?
[/quote]

Agree if he really takes the time to work his grip and it eventually catches up with his dl. Assuming that he will take the time to train the grip, he would definetly be working through the weak point of the lift and I’m ok with that.
Yet he is only 15-16, and moderation isn’t really an attribute at that age, so he would have to be really careful when incorporating straps an grip training in his routine to benefit from those tweaks

35

[quote]238 wrote:

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Looked up captains of crush on google, I have a pair of similar grippers at home. I can probably do 30 something standard reps with them. Should I start using these? How many times a week? Is 30 reps too light for me, should I buy stronger ones? Or should I do pause reps where I hold the squeeze or whatever?[/quote]

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
lol, ignore the 30 reps. It seems I have gotten stronger since the last time I used these around christmas time. 70 reps in my right hand, 67 in my left.[/quote]

I’d buy stronger grippers. If you can get that many reps to failure then it’d be mainly endurance work, like doing BW squats when your 1RM is 200 kg.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I did a quick search on ebay for straps they range from like $7 to $40. Do brands and cost matter? is a strap just a strap?[/quote]

I find that mostly they’re the same, although I’d recommend looking up how to use them properly. Getting everything in tight can take a couple of attempts at first.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
I noticed some are like hooks, some wrap around the joint of your thumb, some wrap around the bar. How do I pick a pair of straps?[/quote]

I honestly hope all types of straps are meant to go around the bar. Are you sure you’re not getting wrist wraps mixed up with straps?[/quote]
Yeah I understand that. So these grippers aren’t really worth using?

Well about straps, like i said, some in the picture just wrap around the thumb joint. some are just a hook that goes under the bar and your gripping the hook. the other one is what i am thinking of, just a velcro strap that you wrap around the bar.

36

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Yeah I understand that. So these grippers aren’t really worth using?
[/quote]

For your purposes, I’d say no. Only thing I can think of is using them to work your fingers individually, but that’d still be stupidly inefficient.

[quote]Massthetics wrote:
Well about straps, like i said, some in the picture just wrap around the thumb joint. some are just a hook that goes under the bar and your gripping the hook. the other one is what i am thinking of, just a velcro strap that you wrap around the bar.[/quote]

Just get the type shown in this video:

You’re in Australia so these are even available in places like Rebel Sports.

As for the ones you’re describing, do you have any pictures/links, of the first one in particular? I can’t imagine how a strap that wraps around your thumb could work. You’re deadlifting 95 kg, and even at weights that low I can’t see how hanging nearly 50 kg from each of your thumbs can be a good (or even possible?) thing without dislocating it. I’ve also never seen a velcro strap where you wrap the velcro around the bar, although that does sound more plausible.

37

[quote]Martimroll94 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

Thank you for this. I am inferring from this post that you also feel that, in turn, using straps at this stage and then working the grip specifically would not be hiding a weakness, since it means one is specifically addressing the weakness. Am I correct here?
[/quote]

Agree if he really takes the time to work his grip and it eventually catches up with his dl. Assuming that he will take the time to train the grip, he would definetly be working through the weak point of the lift and I’m ok with that.
Yet he is only 15-16, and moderation isn’t really an attribute at that age, so he would have to be really careful when incorporating straps an grip training in his routine to benefit from those tweaks[/quote]

Excellent. Thankfully, grip training only really takes about 5 minutes or less, and tends to have a visual appeal in terms or large forearms that will compel a trainee to engage in it, regardless of athletic benefit, which can be very helpful in this (or any) scenario.

38

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Yeah, just from this light one I bought at a local supp store I have noticed a more solid feeling in my wrists and hands. Being a desk jockey, carpal tunnel is always an issue and I def can tell that my hands just feel better after a long day of plug and chugging on the computer. Thinking of ordering the set of 3 with the Sport, Trainer, and no. 1. My grip isn’t great and that seemed like a good set for warmups/endurance work, rep work and heavier work. Any advice on them would be appreciated.
[/quote]

Definitely good to get a whole grouping of them. I never tried the sport, started off with the trainer and the #1, but I can’t imagine you’ll get a whole lot of use out of it if you’ve been training pretty regularly. Wouldn’t be bad for a warm-up, but eventually the trainer will take that role on. Could be useful for a long drop set though.

39

[quote]Massthetics wrote:

[quote]nkklllll wrote:
What do you mean by tipping forward? Do you mean that for a moment your weight is on your toes? Or that your hips rise before your back? Are your knees extending before your hips?

I think most people here would disagree that it is your posterior chain that needs more work.

On the off chance that it IS your quads, then continuing to push your squat up will only further exacerbate the problem. Why? because the squat is the most quad dominant exercise on stronglifts, and if you’re doing that exercise in such a way that compensates for lack of quad strength, then you’re cheating yourself.

Deloading, sometimes drastically, is necessary. If you do it now you won’t have to do it later. And working back up to 75kg from 50-60% won’t take nearly as long as working back up to 150kg from 50-60%. Especially if you’re reworking motor patterns in both instances.

Also, why do you do your deads right after your squats? How long is your break in between them?[/quote]
I deadlift after my squats because I am already warmed up. I take as much rest as i feel like, I just do 1-2 light reps of deadlift to get the form fresh in my mind.

Looked up captains of crush on google, I have a pair of similar grippers at home. I can probably do 30 something standard reps with them. Should I start using these? How many times a week? Is 30 reps too light for me, should I buy stronger ones? Or should I do pause reps where I hold the squeeze or whatever?

I did a quick search on ebay for straps they range from like $7 to $40. Do brands and cost matter? is a strap just a strap? I noticed some are like hooks, some wrap around the joint of your thumb, some wrap around the bar. How do I pick a pair of straps?[/quote]

I understand you’re already warmed up, but how long is “as long as I feel like?” Is it 3 minutes? Is it 12minutes? I know personally that doing any kind of pull immediately after squats makes me hate life. Even if its a few minutes afterwards I can’t stand it. I much prefer doing an exercise in between that isn’t as taxing (like bench, you know, like stronglifts asks you to).