if you are weak off the chest then most certainly you have weak pecs and/or a poor setup. military pressing will obviously strengthen you shoulders which can improve the middle of your stroke on bench.
if you are looking to increase your bench, look into getting a more efficient bench technigue as well as put more of a priority on the bottom portion of your bench.
stick to 1board, 2board, and close grip bench for your max effort stuff. change the DE day to repetition day as others have said and work on technique.
Military is a shoulder exercise
Bench is a chest exercise
do the math.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
if you are weak off the chest then most certainly you have weak pecs and/or a poor setup. military pressing will obviously strengthen you shoulders which can improve the middle of your stroke on bench.
if you are looking to increase your bench, look into getting a more efficient bench technigue as well as put more of a priority on the bottom portion of your bench. [/quote]
My bench max is 286 lbs and my military press max is 110 lbs but still struggle in the middle part of the bench press…any tips? You say weak pecs,what would you train more? Middle or outer pecs?
it’s really hard to tell without seeing a video of you benching with a near max weight. if i were to guess, i would have to say that if you are missing half way up it could be that you are flaring too soon, your bar path could be inefficient, you could be lacking bar speed and/or your grip could be too narrow. there could also be muscular imbalances as well. if it’s muscular, i would do pin presses just below your sticking point, floor presses, neutral grip dumbell work, seated military to the front- pausing on pins at the chin level, and all kinds of tricep work.
If your training is balanced, you should be able to strict overhead press about 2/3 of your bench. If not, you are probably going to be looking at some shoulder problems down the road. Better start working on your presses to balance shoulder strength and your bench will probably go up as a result.
[quote]Andrew424 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
if you are weak off the chest then most certainly you have weak pecs and/or a poor setup. military pressing will obviously strengthen you shoulders which can improve the middle of your stroke on bench.
if you are looking to increase your bench, look into getting a more efficient bench technigue as well as put more of a priority on the bottom portion of your bench.
My bench max is 286 lbs and my military press max is 110 lbs but still struggle in the middle part of the bench press…any tips? You say weak pecs,what would you train more? Middle or outer pecs?
[/quote]
work on your shoulders, I bench 225, and military 155.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Andrew424 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
if you are weak off the chest then most certainly you have weak pecs and/or a poor setup. military pressing will obviously strengthen you shoulders which can improve the middle of your stroke on bench.
if you are looking to increase your bench, look into getting a more efficient bench technigue as well as put more of a priority on the bottom portion of your bench.
My bench max is 286 lbs and my military press max is 110 lbs but still struggle in the middle part of the bench press…any tips? You say weak pecs,what would you train more? Middle or outer pecs?
work on your shoulders, I bench 225, and military 155.[/quote]
Thanx! All sound advice… one more question…why a sitting military press above a standing one?
[quote]Andrew424 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Andrew424 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
if you are weak off the chest then most certainly you have weak pecs and/or a poor setup. military pressing will obviously strengthen you shoulders which can improve the middle of your stroke on bench.
if you are looking to increase your bench, look into getting a more efficient bench technigue as well as put more of a priority on the bottom portion of your bench.
My bench max is 286 lbs and my military press max is 110 lbs but still struggle in the middle part of the bench press…any tips? You say weak pecs,what would you train more? Middle or outer pecs?
work on your shoulders, I bench 225, and military 155.
Thanx! All sound advice… one more question…why a sitting military press above a standing one?[/quote]i like seated because you can arch into the bench getting more of the anterior portion of the delt into the movement.
I would do standing for core strength and to make it more of a whole body lift. If you make it more of an anterior delt lift, you aren’t going to hit the things that you need to balance development.
This is odd, I military press 127lbs standing (from chest to lockout, it actually leaves a red mark on my collarbones afterwards) and I only bench 165 for maybe 5 reps. :s The bench sure is puzzling.
[quote]Ryan71 wrote:
I would do standing for core strength and to make it more of a whole body lift. If you make it more of an anterior delt lift, you aren’t going to hit the things that you need to balance development.[/quote]
The OP wasn’t asking how to perform the lift for more “balanced development”. He was asking about using it as an accessory to his bench press. If he wants his bench to go up then he needs to perform accessory work that will help him achieve that goal. If he wants to be a bodybuilder then he would have posted a totally different question in the bodybuilding forum.
His original question was if there was a relationship between the 2 movements, not about accessory work. Reread the original post. When his shoulder is fucked up and he can’t lift, then he will wish he balanced his development- from a strength perspective, not bodybuilding. I’m not a bodybuilder and don’t give a shit about it, which is why I posted my answer and why his was posted here. Look into the statements I made more carefully.
No shit if he wants his bench to go up he needs his military to go up. Many people feel the press should be done standing including Wendler and Rippetoe. He needs to do it in a way that strengthens everything around the shoulder joint, not just the anterior delt. All the rotator cuff muscles and scapular muscles get better work along with the stabilization required by the core because you make the kinetic chain longer by standing.
Before you make comments you should make sure you understand where the person is coming from.
[quote]Ryan71 wrote:
His original question was if there was a relationship between the 2 movements, not about accessory work. Reread the original post. When his shoulder is fucked up and he can’t lift, then he will wish he balanced his development- from a strength perspective, not bodybuilding. I’m not a bodybuilder and don’t give a shit about it, which is why I posted my answer and why his was posted here. Look into the statements I made more carefully.
No shit if he wants his bench to go up he needs his military to go up. Many people feel the press should be done standing including Wendler and Rippetoe. He needs to do it in a way that strengthens everything around the shoulder joint, not just the anterior delt. All the rotator cuff muscles and scapular muscles get better work along with the stabilization required by the core because you make the kinetic chain longer by standing.
Before you make comments you should make sure you understand where the person is coming from.[/quote]
now i’m the first to admit that i’m no brain surgeon, but i can read and spend a lot of time helping others to get stronger. below, i copied and pasted EXACTLY what the OP wrote. I can also BOLD the question marks if needed.
“I actually enjoy doing the movement; I have long arms so both the bench and military press don’t come easy for me, so I consider them a challenge, BUT, now the fact that one is going up while the other one is not has me wondering is military presses are actually a worthwhile assistance exercise to improve ones bench press. What do you think? Is there much of a correlation between the two? Kind of like how when your deadlift goes up your squat follows or vice versa?”
so call me crazy… i think he just asked if military presses as an assistance exercise can improve his bench. i then answered his specific question with a specific answer.
i agree that the strict standing military press is important for balanced development, but that wasn’t what he was asking.
the correlation that he was asking about is if one improves the other.
i’m all for developing all muscle groups in the body but if you are looking to improve a specific lift you need to do specific accessory movements.
by the way, i love your “you should be able to strict overhead press 3/4’s of your bench” or you are looking at shoulder problems. where did you get that from?? i have a 520lb raw bench. so… if i can’t strict overhead press 390lbs, i’m looking at shoulder problems? i’m guessing you read that somewhere?
most of my advice comes from my own experience under the bar and from listening to others. you need some more time under that bar i bet.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
so call me crazy… i think he just asked if military presses as an assistance exercise can improve his bench. i then answered his specific question with a specific answer.
i agree that the strict standing military press is important for balanced development, but that wasn’t what he was asking.
the correlation that he was asking about is if one improves the other.
i’m all for developing all muscle groups in the body but if you are looking to improve a specific lift you need to do specific accessory movements.
by the way, i love your “you should be able to strict overhead press 3/4’s of your bench” or you are looking at shoulder problems. where did you get that from?? i have a 520lb raw bench. so… if i can’t strict overhead press 390lbs, i’m looking at shoulder problems? i’m guessing you read that somewhere?
most of my advice comes from my own experience under the bar and from listening to others. you need some more time under that bar i bet.
[/quote]
You are obviously strong (but then again you can say anything on the internet), but you have again misquoted me. I posted “about 2/3” not 3/4 and the point is you need to be balanced to stay healthy. While not as strong as you, I have done pretty well lifting for over 20 years now, thank you. I was addressing the original question, not the accessory one, but if you would not have posted in the fashion you did, making it more of an argument than a discussion, I would not have responded the way I did.
I think we both agree the military is a useful lift, but we’re looking at it from different angles. Even if the anterior delt isn’t his weakness, the press is still a useful exercise.
I have yet to see someone struggling with their bench that did not benefit from heavy tricep work. Even if you think your triceps are not a weak point, they need to be stronger. Heavy close grip board presses with bands/chains, weighted push-ups, etc.
Uhh, last time I checked they were both pressing movements. Military emphasizing shoulders and triceps, and bench working mainly the chest, shoulders and triceps.
That said, I’m not saying there is a direct relationship between military and bench. However if your pressing strength goes up in the military, there should be some carry over to the bench.
I would look into working your upper back. Get it strong with a bunch of rows, face pulls and etc. It forms the foundation for which you press off of.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Military is a shoulder exercise
Bench is a chest exercise
do the math.[/quote]
[quote]Ryan71 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
so call me crazy… i think he just asked if military presses as an assistance exercise can improve his bench. i then answered his specific question with a specific answer.
i agree that the strict standing military press is important for balanced development, but that wasn’t what he was asking.
the correlation that he was asking about is if one improves the other.
i’m all for developing all muscle groups in the body but if you are looking to improve a specific lift you need to do specific accessory movements.
by the way, i love your “you should be able to strict overhead press 3/4’s of your bench” or you are looking at shoulder problems. where did you get that from?? i have a 520lb raw bench. so… if i can’t strict overhead press 390lbs, i’m looking at shoulder problems? i’m guessing you read that somewhere?
most of my advice comes from my own experience under the bar and from listening to others. you need some more time under that bar i bet.
You are obviously strong (but then again you can say anything on the internet), but you have again misquoted me. I posted “about 2/3” not 3/4 and the point is you need to be balanced to stay healthy. While not as strong as you, I have done pretty well lifting for over 20 years now, thank you. I was addressing the original question, not the accessory one, but if you would not have posted in the fashion you did, making it more of an argument than a discussion, I would not have responded the way I did.
I think we both agree the military is a useful lift, but we’re looking at it from different angles. Even if the anterior delt isn’t his weakness, the press is still a useful exercise.[/quote]
dude… what the fuck are you smoking?? you keep talking about this original question. do i need some special decoder ring or something? the first question, again is-
“I actually enjoy doing the movement; I have long arms so both the bench and military press don’t come easy for me, so I consider them a challenge, BUT, now the fact that one is going up while the other one is not has me wondering is military presses are actually a worthwhile assistance exercise to improve ones bench press. What do you think? Is there much of a correlation between the two? Kind of like how when your deadlift goes up your squat follows or vice versa?”
also, are you saying that i’m not benching 520lb? i tell you what… i’ll put up a vid right now and you can put up one. i’m sure after 20 years you have something to show for your vast wealth of knowledge.
i wasn’t arguing with you at all. i was pointing out that you obviously had no idea what he was asking.
it’s like someone saying that their good morning strength had increased but their full ROM deadlift wasn’t getting any better and then they asked if good mornings were a good accessory to a deadlift. and then you said “well…you need to be sure and do those standing to work overall body balance because the seated version won’t do… whatever” that’s great and all, but you didn’t answer the QUESTION!!!
if this is in the bench shirt, then maybe you shoudld do raw for a while
my raw bench is only 265, but my militart press is 135x8