Ha! Perhaps you’d like to explain it to me, then.
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There’s a bunch of men who are afraid of their wife’s feelings. Like tons of them.
I don’t mean “a bunch of men care about their wife’s feelings a lot”. No, I mean, they are afraid of them.
Afraid to tell her “no”; afraid to set boundaries (as you said).
This was me. And I know every poster here is thinking “wtf do you mean you aren’t assertive? You’re like a dick to most people.”
Correct.
But I was scared that telling my wife “no” or “I don’t want you doing that” would cause her to be upset with me… which is fucking stupid.
Anyways, most men in shitty marriages are really just lacking boundary enforcement and general assertiveness. The two best books I’ve found (which I’ll endlessly plug) for this are: No More Mr. Nice Guy (meant for men, can be read by women), and When I Say No, I Feel Guilty (I believe this was aimed at women, but applies well for both).
In my experience, every time I set a boundary with my wife, she was mad (to be fair, these should have been discussed prior. This is my own fault). Yet every time after being mad, she seemed to like and respect me more. Strange.
I believe that women inherently want their men to lead. I mean, who leads in partner dances - the women?
But women also have an inherent skepticism (actual term, AKA “shit testing”) feature that tests a man’s resolve and boundaries to ensure he’s fit to lead. After all, if she can boss him around, everyone else can too… well that’s no leader now is it?
Problem is that most men cave to these things, not knowing any better. Well when a woman cannot trust her man to lead, she often begrudgingly assumes the leadership role until either a) her loyalty runs dry or b) her man gets the fuck back up and leads like he should have been. In this situation, I believe OPs wife is following plan (a).
What was I talking about?
Oh right, boundaries.
If OP had set boundaries beforehand, I doubt this ever would have gotten this far. Or it would have, and he’d already know his answer. If a partner doesn’t respect your boundaries (man or woman), they are likely looking for a new partner (or just getting rid of their current one).
So yeah, men should set their boundaries and enforce them. They also shouldnt set boundaries they aren’t willing to enforce.
Enforcement = willingness to leave.
For me, continued willing and enjoyable contact with a prior sexual partner is a deal breaker. There’s no first date, first touch or first kiss barriers for sexual relations - they’ve already happened. As I’m sure you’ve seen, many people get back together with exes because they only remember the good times and forgot all the reasons why they’re exes in the first place. Not long afterwards, they go back to exes.
And I’m done. I think. Maybe.
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OP, do you and this woman have kids? If not I would end it, aggressively. Seek out other men who have been divorced for advice on how to lawyer up, etc. If you have kids, well, try to save it. First step, putting your foot down hard with her and him.
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Yeah, even though I’ve already stated my stance on the matter, there are times in life when we need to remember Hanlon’s Razor adage. - “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”.
Maybe she has never been with a man who sets boundaries, maybe she thinks it’s all innocent when the guy has other intentions. Maybe she thinks she’s just being nice. Maybe she doesn’t know how deeply unsettling this is for you. Maybe she doesn’t realize how the majority of men wouldn’t accept this. Maybe >insert 100 different legitimate excuses for her<.
There is no reason why this situation cannot still be put down to earth and improved before you stick a grenade in your life. You should at least try. If she ignores your boundaries then this guy is far too important to her. To me, there would be no other option but to leave. If she doesn’t respect something as simple as “Hey sweetie, can you stop texting that dude? It makes me feel a little uncomfortable and I know you wouldn’t like it if I was texting an ex-lover”. The stronger the fight back, the stronger their relationship is. If you accept this now it just sets the precedent for the rest of the relationship.
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Hello there,
Remember that there is no one-size-fits-all answer to whether it’s “right” for a spouse to maintain contact with a former partner. It depends on the unique circumstances of your relationship.
You should have an open and honest conversation with your spouse. Express your feelings and concerns about their continued contact with the former partner. Ask them to share their perspective as well. Also you can Discuss the situation with close friends or family members whom you trust. They can offer valuable insights and advice based on their own experiences or observations.
I hope the above information is helpful to you.
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Great books! I’ve been plugging No More Mr. Nice Guy on here for five years. 
I also have pushed Sexual Utopia in power, a collection of essays. The essay pertinent to situations like the one we are discussing here, and one I think many men should read is, Rotating Polyandry and Its Enforcers, which deals with the motivations and tactics of female infidelity.
Pertinent quotes:
“The women sometimes responded with a kind of countermanipulation: “they thought if they were cold and treated their husbands terribly, the men would leave, or ask them to leave. Sometimes this happens—which, incidentally, explains why divorce initiation statistics can be misleading. A significant portion of the roughly thirty percent of divorces which are formally male-initiated result from the wife deliberately maneuvering her husband into taking the step.
But it is not always easy for women to obtain a divorce in this manner: “Some of the women couldn’t believe the things their husbands were willing to put up with.” (So much for men not being committed.)”
“A man cannot force his wife to be faithful, but he can force her to make a clear choice; he can refuse to allow her the opportunity of having both a marriage and an affair, of continuing in a “limbo” of indecisiveness. Langley even reports that some unfaithful wives themselves “wanted their husband to give them an ultimatum—a kick in the ass, so to speak.”” I’ll
My wife can look at my phone whenever she wants as I can hers. Not that we regularly check each other’s phones but the ability to do so is always there. I’ve even given my daughter the ability to access my phone via her fingerprint. IMO, unless it’s a work phone and you work for the CIA or something, there is no reason why a spouse shouldn’t be able to use your phone.
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I wonder if more detailed information would be helpful:
- Does spouse mean that you are married?
- How long have you been married?
- Do you have any children?
- How long did you know your spouse before you got married?
- How many times have you been married?
- How many times has your spouse been married?
- How old are you?
- How old is your spouse?
- How would you assess the success of your marriage?
This was me in my first marriage as well. I never wanted to start a “thing” and when he was upset it tended to feel punishing to me. Or possibly I was too sensitive to his hurt or slight upset and trained us both to this crazy dynamic. Eventually I learned that if you feel comfortable doing a thing, you should be able to hear about it without coming all undone. It was manipulation, whether we both played a part in its development or not. It was stupid because how could either of us be happy if one of us was walking on eggshells? How could either of us be happy if one of us was alienating the other, sometimes unnecessarily, i.e. some of the things he never knew upset me he would probably have been willing to change. So I only fought when I was willing to die on a hill, generally concerning the children or in defense of pretty minimal dignity for me, e.g. don’t swear at me, don’t get all tense and shitty around my (female) friends and coworkers. Eventually don’t call me a cunt when the girls beat the guys at Trivia at a party.
My family stuff made it hard for me to tell when I was overreacting and when I wasn’t, because things blew up so completely so quickly. There was never a fight that didn’t end in threat of divorce.
During that marriage I read and read and read and read, about men and women and - especially - child rearing. Eventually I went back to school and then graduate school and learned where my family was functional and where it wasn’t.
TNation also played a part in the dissolution of my marriage, because here I encountered men who were masculine, as my ex was, but who exhibited intellectual and moral integrity. They (some of them) don’t contradict themselves without acknowledging a change in thinking, they can explain and defend their views without getting nasty, and they can shift in response to compelling new information, as I am able to. My husband did not meet these standards. I do. I’ve always read “boy books” along with all the others, but TN gave me a new kind of access to male thinking. I’m not a woman whose friends are guys.
I see this as being less ominous. Do I want to top from the bottom? No. Does someone need to run this clown circus? Yes. Which of us is capable? And that’s it. I think when men like you “assume the leadership role” you probably become more actively engaged in the relationship and family. And that is where the increased respect comes in. Now you’re in a role you feel good about, and she feels good about the improved emotional tone of the family.
This is why I was on the verge of divorce for the entirety of my marriage. I didn’t want to end it because I believe in marriage, but I couldn’t seem to negotiate the smallest change. So cue the stupid, hollow threats.
Thank you for 'splaining that. I am in aggressive agreement as well, as you can see by my further 'splaining.
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He called you that? 
I consider that the lowest word a man can call a woman.
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Hi Roberrtt and welcome. I agree with what you’ve said, but are you offering a writing sample in hopes of a job, or joining the conversation?
I so agree with this. Tnation is ALL OVER my devices, as is my primary social media, a “shared journal” with my girlfriends, where if I’m upset about something, it’s written. While I would be embarrassed, frankly, for my husband to read my TN posts because they’re so gushy about him and I don’t want him anywhere near the giant tvs in another thread, it’s me and it’s honest and if he needs to look in, given that it’s irregular, he can. He knows about it. Last time I did the T-ransformation Challenge, he knew about that, too, and saw some of the pics.
I have picked up his phone a couple of times in the 10 years we’ve been together, when I’ve felt insecure - more about family stuff as we’re a blended family, but still. It’s reassured me so I can go back to feeling safe and secure. Trust is increased, not threatened by this, for me. I haven’t mentioned it to him, but we’ve both been in dishonest relationships, so I think he would understand.
Yes, and this was years ago, before it became more commonplace. My ex has many good qualities, but emotion regulation is not one of them, nor distress tolerance. He was drunk when he said it, and it was witnessed by our friends/neighbors. I thought, during the marriage, that it was only me who was targeted when he was drinking (which to be fair was not often), but after the divorce friends started telling me about insinuations to their husbands that they were gay and other insulting stuff. He’s a bully. I thought he was always low-key mad at me, and I’m a responsibility-taker so it just seemed like a sucky thing that happens in a marriage - like, I’m not perfect - but he was that way with others, too.
Since the divorce he’s had several relationships, none of which have lasted more than six months, and always ended due to a problem with the woman. Taiwanese woman he bragged to our 17yo would “do anything he wanted” didn’t work out because her eating habits were disgusting. One was too fat, though he is overweight himself. One “psycho,” another “a drunk.” He’s basically a broke hermit at this point and I am stunned at the degree to which I and the kids must have stabilized him.
It’s very sad. He built and sold a business for a decent bit of money, and as a family we should have been very comfortable, particularly as I moved into the workplace, but his inability to generate happiness internally caused a great many things that A) wasted the money, and B) squandered my trust. My father left money that was locked up in an education account for the kids, and one my motives ultimately was to protect that money. Plus of course the lies and infidelity. When we divorced he said he didn’t want anything from the house. Stupid. Impulsive. He cashed in retirement accounts. Just all this external quest for something you have to build with your heart and mind. It’s heartbreaking, especially as his kids happen to be the people I love most in the world.
There were red flags everywhere when we met. I wish I’d understood it all better.
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My wife had my phone in her hand as I woke up this morning. First thoughts- “cool. She’s checking my browser history for ideas. 
”.
But Nah. Just checking the weather before kiddo goes to the bus stop.
There IS a Christmasy nip in the air!
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Jay, I’m bummed that you’re in a position to need to ask this. To give her the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible she doesn’t realize how inappropriate situation is. Or it’s possible she does, but has found ways of rationalizing it in her own mind. So I hope you can have a good talk with her about why she feels the need to stay in touch with him.
Chris and I attend a church where our pastor’s sermons frequently address psychology and relationships, so even if you’re not interested in religion, you can often still get a lot out of it. Anyway, there was this one line that stuck with me a couple weeks ago.
He said, your heart goes where your time goes.
That may sound obvious and maybe even a little hokey to some, but it’s absolutely true. If she’s confiding in him and spending time conversing with him, it’s a symptom of her desires.
And I believe that if you can win over your wife’s heart again, she’ll cringe at the thought of keeping in contact with that guy, or any for that matter. If you’re interested, here’s the rest of that lesson: The Key to Unlocking a Heart
For the record, I would not keep in contact with an ex. I would rather eat my own vomit. And to be fair, my exes were nice guys for the most part. But the thought of giving my husband the slightest idea that I have any interest reconnecting with someone else hurts to even think about.
About this. I haven’t been on the 'gram in several months, so if you could check my direct messages, and while you’re at it write every person back, I’d appreciate it. For the strength of our marriage of course, not because I’m lazy and hate social media.
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I think it is likely true, but other explanations exist. As an example, I think sometimes these behaviors aren’t always about desiring another, but about insecurity. She could see the other guy as less desirable than OP, but likes attention she gets from her ex.
There are some women in committed relationships that start dating profiles. Many (my gut says most) don’t plan to do anything like meet up with a new guy. It is looking for validation. So what you said is true I suppose, just sometimes what her desires are is validation, not a different guy. I think many of the women who do this haven’t been in the dating market for awhile (they are in a committed relationship), they start experiencing aging, and want to know that they still “have it”.
I think another driving factor for this type of behavior is lack of excitement. Maybe their relationship just doesn’t excite them much. They maybe don’t plan on doing anything but “chatting”, but even that is a bit of naughty excitement.
For both of these things, there are actions OP could take to fill those missing things for his spouse. Maybe she needs validation on her physical appearance more than what she is getting. This is tough though because I feel fixing insecurity with external validation doesn’t last very long. It can be as short as a day long fix. Short term this could help, but she needs to work on that herself if that is the issue. On the excitement thing, there is lots of stuff that can be done to introduce excitement. Maybe she and OP start a new interesting hobby, or mix things up in bed.
I even hate group chats. Also as an android user, apple users reacting to everything is horrible. I get a separate message for each reaction. “so and so loved an image”. It may be a bit petty, but I’ll actually write it out to the group “Ben liked an image”, so they can see what it is like to get 20 of those stupid reaction messages a day. If someone posts a meme or something, I like to be notified, I don’t want my pocket buzzing for the next 10 minutes about people liking, laughing or loving an image.
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Starting a dating profile when you need validation is so bizarre that I can’t even think of a good enough analogy to compare to it. It’d be like starting a dating profile when you just needed some validation.
And trust me, needing validation is not a foreign concept to me. I LOVE VALIDATION. But telling men that I’m romantically available on an app – where the entire purpose is to meet and hook up – is a concept I cannot relate to and never want to.
I hope your wife or girlfriend has never done this. It’s gross.
I really only made the post to highlight that there might be other explanations for the behavior. Ones that are not great, but are IMO better than OP’s wife preferring another man to him.
I don’t think it is super common, but also not rare.
A bit old:
This is with single men and women I believe.
I can see that a woman could get a huge hit of dopamine and external validation by using a dating app. The numbers are stacked in their favor. At the same time, knowing that would kinda ruin it if your purpose was validation. Men generally get the opposite effect using dating apps. Women are generally flooded with a bunch of options they don’t like while most men are dying of thirst. Those options they don’t like aren’t dating material, but they can be validation.
Not that I know of. She is pretty confident, and gets unwanted attention in public.
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Sooo glad to hear this. 
That does explain it. It’s weird, but it also probably explains why so many start OF accounts.
I just want to ask them, “Have you tried hobbies? Or considered accomplishing stuff?”
Yeah that makes sense and it makes me feel sorry for those who are genuinely trying to find companionship.
Way to go!! Sounds like you’ve found a winner.
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From what I understand, if a guy can make his profile seem authentic (seeking long term is what I mean here), but not desperate, he will do better with getting matches from women looking for the same. It is a balancing act though. Saying something like “ready for commitment” may be too much. I have zero experience, just what I’ve heard from other guys. I might be talking out of my ass.
That is important to me (her self confidence). I am more so the one that struggles with that. It was important for me that I didn’t feel like a backup plan, that there was a guy from the past she would prefer. I have never felt that way with her. She adores me, but that comes with a different set of problems. Ones we are working on, but are tough. Mostly along the lines of she is clingy. I have worked to set boundaries here, but I have to constantly reinforce those. Stuff like doing stuff with my friends, or time schedules (being late coming from the gym is a big one).
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I actually dated a guy who did this and offered this exact ^ explanation for it, saying that wasn’t following through on anything. “Just insecure.” I honestly didn’t know what to make of it aside from that I was done with him. I assumed he was lying, and was bewildered that he had been the one to ask for exclusivity. This was very soon after my divorce, so I was in no hurry for that. I couldn’t figure out why he would want to lock things down and then cheat. Why not just be casual? But I guess here it is.
Soon after this experience was when I started asking (here) wtf was up with men and changing my approach and boundary system. Which is one of the reasons I’m so forthcoming on these boards.
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