Well, on the exact day that I front loaded Mag-10, I busted up my ankle playing football and will be out of action for awhile. Let me tell you, it sucks, I was looking forward to seeing if this product had any merit (would body comp test at work -DEXA, eat right & enough, etc.), but now I hobble along on crutches in pain and wait for the pain to go away. Oh, well so goes in the sporting life. Once healed, where I train legs properly with good squats and adequate resistance, I will start over in the Mag-10 zone and post my results/experience.
I’m currently at about 21% bf, so losing fat is much more impotrant to me right now than gaining muscle. However, would it make sense to use Mag-10 to maintain muscle while dieting, thus resulting in a shorter time to get down to an acceptable bf% ? If so, what type of calorie level and cycling would be recommended?
Sung, I think health issues were pretty
well discussed in the articles in the magazine, but to sum up briefly, the side effects most associated with anabolic steroids (liver toxicity from 17-alkylation, estrogen-related side effects, and conversion to DHT) don’t occur with MAG-10. When cycled properly
I consider it safe for men. On the other hand, abusing it such as using max dosage constantly for years on end could quite likely have adverse effects. So don’t do that.
You could use MAG-10 to help maintain
muscle while dieting, but such use is
most cost-effective when the dieting
is quite severe, e.g. around 10 cal/lb/day.
If dieting down only slowly, and if at
a relatively high bf like around 21%,
LBM retention should be good even without
added androgen.
thanks for your help Bill!
I’m starting mag 10 tomorrow but i won’t have access to weights on christmas. Is it a big problem to have my off day on the 2nd day of taking mag 10? should i just wait to start after christmas?
First let me congratulate and thank the great folks at Biotest for having the know-how and the balls to release such a formidable product. I’ve also used T2 and it kicks ass as well! Also, this is a true story as amazing as it’s going to sound.
I was not thinking of sharing my results initially because I did not think I would make the gains I have using the protocol I have but here it is:
I am 36 years old and weigh 5’11" at a body weight of 204 at the start of the cycle with a bodyfat of 18% (thank god I have a few months to lean a bit…). I used one dose a day first thing in the morning with a double dose on the first day. I trained once a day very heavy (in the 6-8 rep range) using moderate volume with regular use of drop sets for a few of the sets. The workouts were brief and I worked out 2-3 on, depending upon my energy levels, with a day off and then repeat. I split my bodyparts into 3 workouts so I worked out each bodypart 4 time during this cycle. I did 15 minutes of moderate cardio for 15-20 minutes following each workout as a means of preventing fat storage during the cycle.
My diet was well below my caloric requirement as I figured it out using John Berardi’s formulas. I should’ve been eating 4600 calories a day but I only took in between 3200-4000 depending on how many meals I actually able to get in.
I felt no ‘jacked’ feeling at all and had no trouble sleeping at night. I did notice a feeling of general well-being. I definitely noticed an increase, although not huge, in the amount of weight I was able to use. I had huge pumps that lasted for days and I looked nice and full. I also had no acne or oily skin but I did notice, to my surprise, a slight ‘moonface’ look to my face. Bill Roberts or anyone else, is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this? The best part is that I gained 14 lbs in 12 days even though I did not eat enough or train with high volume as recommended. Don’t get me wrong, I tried to eat a lot and I would have loved to train with more volume but I’ve been working 12-hour days since 911 (the building I worked in was World Trade Center 7 which was the third building to fall that day, so we are now in disaster recovery mode in another location) and I did what I could; I was not out to sabotage myself intentionally. Bodyfat went down to 17%; can you imagine that?
To say that I’m ecstatic with these results is an understatement. I wonder how much of these gains I will hold onto during my next 2-week phase when I use M and Tribex? I think if I can keep 7-10 lbs it would be great but it may be more. I will definitely write in again with the results.
I obviously responded incredibly well to this product, even better than when I did 300mg of deca per week. I still can’t believe it but it’s true. I hope that by writing in I could convince some folks who would otherwise not try Mag-10, because they don’t think they will be training hard enough or eating enough, to go ahead and try it. You may be surprised at how much you can gain. Keep training, happy New Year and be well.
CB
Chip, congratulations on your excellent results. I’d definitely expect you to retain as much gains as you’re hoping.
A “moonface,” though, is not a typical side
effect of MAG-10. On the other hand, maybe
by “slight moonface” you mean just a little
added fullness… that is possible due
to facial muscles holding added glycogen.
(As opposed to a real moonface, which is
from estrogenic or corticosteroid water
retention.)
Day 7-up 7.5 pounds. A little fat gain, but nothing that dieting can’t get rid of later on. I am still frustrated with my results in terms of strength, though. In spite of the increased bodyweight, I have seen absolutely no change in strength. In fact, I think I’ve even been less strong in the afternoon sessions of the two a day split. Has anyone else made size gains without strength increases?
Eric, there’s no problem in seeing no apparent
gain in strength at just day 7, particularly if volume has increased.
(How I long for the “old days” when people
would write to me happy about how, by WEEK THREE, they had started gaining strength on
their cycle of real pharmaceutical steroids! Though admittedly not on a cycle I’d recommended, which would have been faster.)
Chris S, what the hell are you doing! I thought the Growth Surge Project was a stand alone program. Now half way through this thread you say it needs to be changed if you’re NOT on Mag-10!!! WTF… I’m don’t mean to be rude, but I think it’s all a bit of a balls up. Anything else you might wanna let us in on Re: GSP, for those of us that will most likely never have access to Biotest supplements…?
OK, Chris, I was just venting, didn’t mean to aim it at you… didn’t read your whole post either… [gets down off soap box and stands in corner] Plus on reading this thread for the first time I’m thoroughly pissed off that I haven’t got access to any worthwhile supps. The next thing beyond creatine over here is juice, and I’m still debating that… ah, to have some Mag-10… [sighs]
Just wanted to post my experiences so far. I am 8 days into my first Mag 10 cycle. I started at 203 lbs and 14% bodyfat. I was planning on doing a cutting phase because my bodyfat is so high right now. I got my mag 10 and couldn’t wait to give it a try and started. I am now at 218 and 14% bodyfat. My primary lifts are up between 10 and 15% for the most part. To be honest I haven’t been eating as well as I could either, between 3000 and 4500 calories and 225 to 350 grams of protein and alot of this was junk food.
My workouts have consisted of Ian King’s 12 weeks to Super Strength and Limping series 2 of each per week. I am very impressed and plan on doing a cutting cycle soon and following up with another mag 10 cycle eating alot cleaner. I used 2 doses the first day and 1.33 doses following days (1 cap twice a day) Like I said I am very impressed and am sure that I will be more impressed when my bodyfat is down and the results are a little more visual. My pants also fit the same except are a little tight around the thighs. But I’ll take that over tight around the waist any day. Thanks again guys.
Well, I am about 5 days out of my 12 day Mag-10 cycle. I am 19yrs old and am about 5’10 in height. I weighed 182lbs with about 9% BF before my cycle. The day after my cycle I weighed 193.5 at about 11% BF. That is 11.5lbs in 12 days. I took one dose a day and front loaded with 2 dose. I followed a tweaked version of the Growth Surge Phase II protocol. Meaning, I tried to fit the two a day workout plan into one work out - minus about 3-4 sets. Honestly, I figured while on Mag-10 I could handle an avg. of 18 sets per workout. My diet consisted of about 1000 calories above my maintenance - so about 4000-4300. I got well above 2g/per lbs in protein.
My pumps were ridiculous at the gym. When I worked out arms, I felt like my bis and tris were going to rip out of my skin. My strength did not increase that much, mainly because I did not try to increase strength. But there was a noticeable strength gain in my chest. I have decided to not use anything (M or Tribex) in the weeks off of Mag-10. I will be waiting 3 weeks before my next phase. I am looking forward to doing my traditional workout (each muscle group a week, very focused workouts, variety of exercises for each muscle group) for the 2 weeks next time.
Now, for the 5 days I have been off of the mag 10. I have lost a great deal of water weight and some fat, as my muscle are a little more defined. I have dropped my calories steadily to about 3750. My weight is down to 190 at about 10 -10.5 BF%. I am very please with my results and look forward to my next phase.
I used Mag-10, Adv. Protein, Cytosport Muscle Milk, and Surge. Thanks Biotest.
Day 9. Up 9.5 pounds. According to calculations with calipers and scale, I’ve gained about 8.3 pounds of lean mass and 1.2 of fat. Unfortunately, most of it has gone right to where I’m prone to gaining it (pecs and love handles). I’m confident that I’ll diet it off down the road. Hopefully, I’ll be able to drop a pound or two of fat during the two weeks between Mag-10 cycles, too. My goal is to add 25 lbs. of whatever over the three cycles, maintain for a week, and then use Androsol and a low carb diet (maybe T-Dawg). Still nothing significant in terms of strength gains: just 2.5 lbs. here and there. I finish up Growth Surge Stage 2 on the 2nd, and have four days of workouts left.
Bill, I notice your normal recommendation is cycles of 2 weeks. Considering that most normal steroid cycles are 6 to 10 weeks long, I was just curious why your recommendation would be 2. I was thinking about running an 8 week cycle of Mag-10 front-loaded for a couple days followed by two weeks of Clomid and Norephedrine followed by another 6 weeks of Norephedrine and low-carb dieting. Whaddya think?
Jeff, that’s a perfectly good cycle and should work well.
Two week cycles have at least two advantages:
For those without access to agents boosting recovery – and until recently Clomid was the only thing recommendable, and it wasn’t available to everyone – people don’t get into trouble in recovering their natural testosterone production with 2 week cycles, but a minority will have severe problems with for example 8 or 10 week cycles, and in one case I know of even with 6 weeks.
Second, there’s less backsliding between
cycles because the time “off,” assuming
same percentage of time is being taken off,
is shorter.
Third, the body is incapable of growing
really rapidly week after week after week.
It grows more efficiently in spurts. For a given amount of total androgen used and same total time, gains
can be somewhat better with several short
cycles than with one long one that’s followed
by the same amount of total “off” time.
E.g., let’s evaluate a 48 week time period.
The comparison is between eight 2 on / 4 off cycles, and two 8 on / 16 off cycles. Total amount of androgen used is the same, total time frame is the same, percent of time off is the same.
At the 48 week point, you’ll look better with the shorter cycle plan. You will also look better a high percentage of the time during those 48 weeks, too. It might be that at the
absolute peak of the longer cycle plan – week 8 of the second week – you might (maybe) exceed the peak of the shorter cycle plan, and also very definitely possibly you wouldn’t, but overall certainly your results are better with the brief alternating cycle plan.
Also, the same argument holds if you were comparing
2 on / 2 off with 8 on / 8 off, or 2 on / 1 off with 8 on / 4 off.
Okay. What you say about shorter cycles makes sense. I’ve been using Haycock’s HST protocol that I’m sure you’re familiar with with good results and was trying to figure out how to set up drug/diet cycles in conjunction with this training protocol. If I use Mag 10 for 4 weeks during the heavy and negative two-week phases of the program, I can take a week off while using Clomid then get right into the joint strengthening (which we all know can get behind the muscles while on steroids) phase while taking Norephedrine to help solidify gains and burn off the fat gained on the cycle. I was also thinking of taking micronized creatine frontloaded during the Mag 10 cycles, but you said something about the body sensing that it’s growing too fast or whatever so could the creatine interfere with the (more permanent) gains from Mag 10? I figure this is a good way to test Mag 10 out for myself. A couple questions though. I take Propecia for my hair anyways due to a nice case of male pattern baldness. Will the combination of Propecia and Mag 10 make my hair fall out faster than Mag 10 alone? And the Clomid, if there is little to no estrogenization of Mag 10, how can Clomid effectively restart natural testosterone production after a Mag 10 cycle? Admittedly, HOW it does this is not nearly as important as that it does in fact do so, but I’m just curious.
I’m curious to hear Bill’s response to the question regarding propecia and mag-10. I’ve heard that when nor-androgens (deca, nandrosol) are combined with propecia it actually speeds up hair loss. What about with mag-10?