My weak link, I think, is my lower back. At least that is what keeps me from progressing alot. I’m going to give you my basic split for info purposes, then explain the problem. I’m looking for advice on how to fix it.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back (and Deadlifts)
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Legs (Squats, Lunges, RDLs)
Friday: Shoulders
Ok, now that you guys have spacing, here is my problem. The leg day. On leg days I start with squats (lower bar back squats), do lunges (with heavy dumbbells so I can drop them before I start puking), then RDLs. The idea is for squats to work the whole leg, lunges to focus on the quads, and RDLs, of course, to focus on glutes and hammies.
My problem is that the squats tend to fatigue my lower back a bit, and the lunges start cramping it up. By the time I get to the RDLs, my lower back is tight and screaming - this makes it difficult/impossible (depending on the day) to really grind through the RDLs.
I thought about doing things like good mornings, but when do I add them in? I’m doing DLs on back day (Tuesday), and I’m not sure adding good mornings then, after already fatiguing my back with DLs is a good idea. Maybe it is. But since I do legs two days after back, will doing good mornings on Tuesdays mess with my ability to do legs on Thursdays? Should I push legs to Friday and do shoulders Thursday?
[quote]kravi wrote:
My problem is that the squats tend to fatigue my lower back a bit, and the lunges start cramping it up. By the time I get to the RDLs, my lower back is tight and screaming - this makes it difficult/impossible (depending on the day) to really grind through the RDLs.
I thought about doing things like good mornings, but when do I add them in? I’m doing DLs on back day (Tuesday), and I’m not sure adding good mornings then, after already fatiguing my back with DLs is a good idea. Maybe it is. But since I do legs two days after back, will doing good mornings on Tuesdays mess with my ability to do legs on Thursdays? Should I push legs to Friday and do shoulders Thursday?
Advice appreciated!
–Me[/quote]
How many sets n reps do you do on your leg day? Do you cycle your loads or just go balls to the wall every time? Would be nice to know bit more bout your training philosphy
The problem might be that you’re practicing 3 “big lifts” in a row and go to total fatigue each time([quote]so I can drop them before I start puking[/quote])
Why dont you try: Front Squats(8x3reps)with a 3-5sec pause in the “hole”, One Legged Deadlifts(3x6 R+L) and the Farmer’s Walk(3-5x2min)
FSQs hit your Quads and Hammies, OLDs your Gluts, and the FW your Calves
Im not a professional but as soon as I incorporate a high volume 5 day Split(mine looks just like yours ) into my regimen the Leg day looks exactly like this and I never burned out.
Thanks for the response! I’ll do my best to answer.
On leg day, I usually do 6 - 8 reps of squats, 10 - 12 reps of lunges (not sure what fails first, my conditioning or my leg muscles - I do all 10 reps on my left leg - walking squats, followed by all 10 reps on my right leg. Left leg first because it is my “weaker” leg and I want to strengthen it and if conditioning fails, it fails on my already stronger leg), and 8 - 12 reps of RDLs. I always train hard and to the point of failure, though hopefully not to failure.
I don’t feel burned out (though my legs are usually jello the rest of the day). In fact, I’ve never felt better in my life. I have no lingering back pain at all. It is only on lifting days that the muscles get tight and sore.
First off, make sure you are using proper form for squats and deadlifts especially. How sure are you of this?
Next, I’d say if it were me, it would be because of the deadlifting on Tuesday and squatting two days later. Try having legs on Friday, see if that helps. If not, you may want to consider doing deadlifts on leg day instead of back day, and have the one week you do heavy squats and light RDL’s, the next week do heavy deadlifts and light squats. This depends on your goals, and your current level of development though.
[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:
First off, make sure you are using proper form for squats and deadlifts especially. How sure are you of this?[/quote]
Also check your form on the lunges. They shouldn’t be flaring up your lower back all that much unless you’re reaching/leaning forward excessively. Focus on an up and down movement, not a back and forth movement. Or consider step-ups or leg press since you’re using them as a quad assistance move.
This was my first instinct too. Though I’d just swap the back and chest day, so back/deadlifts are on Monday and you still get an extra day of minimal back activation before leg day.
[quote]kravi wrote:
I thought about doing things like good mornings, but when do I add them in? I’m doing DLs on back day (Tuesday), and I’m not sure adding good mornings then, after already fatiguing my back with DLs is a good idea.[/quote]
Adding some direct lower back work could definitely help, done on back day. Good mornings are a solid exercise if you control your ego, not vice versa.
I also really like back extension holds for time - basically holding the “top position” of a back extension (body in a straight line) for a few sets of a 15-30 count. It trains the lower back for stability and strength-endurance, which is what we need there. I want to say I read about that from Wendler a million years ago, but I don’t exactly remember.
OP, IMO there’s no reason you have to shift your days. That is a pretty standard split you posted. The culprit is probably your form. If your lower back’s getting overly sore and tight, you’re likely under-recruiting things like glutes and hamstrings. Think about adding some bodyweight hip thrusts/glute bridges to your warm up holding the contraction at the top for a good 3 seconds SQEEZING the living hell out of your glutes.
Though posting a video of your squats, lunges, and RDLs would be 1000 times better than trying to “diagnose” your problem through words.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
OP, IMO there’s no reason you have to shift your days. That is a pretty standard split you posted. The culprit is probably your form. If your lower back’s getting overly sore and tight, you’re likely under-recruiting things like glutes and hamstrings. Think about adding some bodyweight hip thrusts/glute bridges to your warm up holding the contraction at the top for a good 3 seconds SQEEZING the living hell out of your glutes.
Though posting a video of your squats, lunges, and RDLs would be 1000 times better than trying to “diagnose” your problem through words. [/quote]
Thanks for the responses. I’ll see if I can convince my owner (wife) to film me squatting on Thursday, and find some software that allows me to blur my face Hey, what gets posted on the inter-webz stays on the inter-webz, forever…
I’m pretty sure my form is ok, but better safe than sorry. I feel good after squats, not at all sore. The lunges I’m doing with dumbbells, so maybe that is impacting my form. I do dumbbells because I do them until I am close (hopefully not past) to puking, so I like the option of having something I can drop safely (rather than a barbell).
My RDLs really work my glutes and hammies, as I can feel them during the RDLs. The problem really seems to be the lunges tweaking my lower back.
Hey, what gets posted on the inter-webz stays on the inter-webz, forever…