What do you guys think about Biotest coming out with a sugar-free or low carb version of SURGE for extreme dieting or for even people who are highly sensitive to sugar or diabetics? I think it would be great. I would use regular SURGE for serious mass building phases, then cycling to low-carb SURGE for a shreded fat-loss phase. Maybe Chris S. or any other T-staff could answer this one.
Uuuh… I think the whole point of using Surge is to get a butt-load of sugar in your bloodstream to cause a spike of insulin. This causes an increase in uptake of proteins as well. Sugar PWO good!!! It doesn’t matter if you’re cutting or not. You need to replenish that muscle glycogen, and Surge PWO is a good way to do that.
Yes please… and thank you…
Now they have to do it cause I said please and thank you!
That would be defeating the purpose of Surge.
The reason why Surge contains the carbohydrates it contains is for spiking insulin levels, reducing cortisol and replacing glycogen stores.
It also increases anabolism and enhances amino acid uptake.
A low carb version may be able to block cortisol via some supplemental help, but I don’t see how it would be able to increase recovery or spike insulin, let alone replenish glycogen stores.
The only version of low carb Surge I could think of would be hydro whey with glutamine and BCAAs, but would this significantly aid recovery to the extent of warranting making a drink of it?
Also what diet is so severe that it would require no carbs even post workout? People have even stated that Fat Fast would be better with some post workout Surge.
In short, I just don’t think it would be wise from a marketing standpoint nor a physique standpoint.
I might be completely wrong though.
I think NewDamage is completely right.
Carbs are necessary for post workout PERIOD. If you want something for PWO with low carbs you are selling your body, workout and recovery short.
How about some protein free GROW!
Yes, and please make some fat free fish and flax oil too!
(joke!)
Don’t they already have this? I think it’s called Low Carb Grow
Is this really such a bad question? Christian Thibaudeau went zero carb for six weeks to kick-start his transformation in the “Beast Evolves” article: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
And while he does say that he wouldn’t do it again since it interfered with his ability to gain muscle, he does suggest that the ketogenic diet probably did help him lose the fat rapidly.
And I think that John Berardi has mentioned in the past that simple BCAAs have been shown to spike insulin, and are often used instead of sugar to supplement creatine ingestion in clinical studies. So a post-workout shake of whey hydrolysate, BCAAs, EFAs, and possibly glutamine, might not be a terrible alternative for someone on a temporary ketogenic diet. (Of course, Surge would work much better for recovery, but the goal of someone on such a severe diet would be primarily fat loss followed by strength retention; not actual growth.)
The question is, would a rise in insulin be desirable in someone who hasn’t ingested any carbs? In other words, is the purpose of raising insulin to shuttle glucose into muscle and liver tissue, thus making it pointless with a zero-carb post-workout drink?
I don’t think it is pointless to have a zero or low carb PWO drink. The purpose is twofold, (1) replenish glycogen stores (as you mention) and (2) protein synthesis (anti-catabolism). This is the reason to have both high glycemic carbs and protien in the PWO drink. Ingesting protien, and thus BCAAs, should assist in anabolic activity, but I do not believe it is the optimal course if the goal is loss of BF while maintianing LBM. Glycogen stores still need to be replenished, but to what level is optimal will very for each individual.
Hmmm…where’s David Barr when you need the guy? His lab has done extensive work on the post-exercise supplementation.
However, as far as I remember, the synthetic response from consuming just aminos after exercise was almost as great as consuming aminos and carbs. (I’d have to look at the paper again) While there are some very real advantages to consuming amino acids without carbs PWO they may not be totally necessary in certain situations (i.e., you’re ketogenic to drop the very last few pounds).
From a marketing standpoint this simply isn’t logical as very few people would use this product since there are other ways of getting just as lean.
I think all of you guys have a point. I just thought I would put it out there since there are a few people who like to do ketogenic diets. Not that I will ever stop using SURGE, but after a long mass-building phase, I think it would be benefecial, since there have been many studies on BCAA consumption alone during and after workouts without carbs. I remember an interview with Charles Poliquin on this very subject where he took large amounts of BCAA tablets from Beverly International during and after workouts and saw amazing results. Even Don Alessi has touched on this subject of low-carb PW drinks being successful.
John Berardi has addressed this in a previous printed issue of T-mag. He suggested that those who are dieting should only use half a dose of Surge. So, if you normally use 2 scoops (<200lbs), then you would use 1 scoop.
Those trying to maintain or gain would use the full dose (2 scoops), and those who are on a massive gaining phase should add extra carbs such as Gatorade to Surge.
So there is no need for an additional version of Surge. It can be used for all applications.
what the ****!
this must be a belated april fools joke.
While it may not be pointless to have a low-carb PWO drink, I would think that Low Carb GROW would fit that bill.