High-GI Carbs PWO Debunked??

Diet and Nutrition
1

Anyone seen this?

There are other threads where Bobo “debunks” the idea of hi-GI carbs being needed post workout, but in this one he specifically calls out Berardi as simply advertising for Surge for $$.

I’ve been using Surge for about 4 months now, and I wonder if it’s even needed… it seems like a normal isolate/concentrate blend made with skim milk w/ some standard low-mod gi carbs would suffice, save me $$ (Surge is very expensive per serving, especially if you weigh > 200 lbs) and potentially help me cut faster (when cutting)… never mind save my teeth (anyone else have sore teeth when drinking Surge?)

I’d love for Berardi to chime in here and go head to head with Bobo over at AM, specially since he’s published his PWO articles over there…

In my mind, if Surge is such a stable of recovery, and it’s obvious that you need 2x CH as you do PRO, and you need the fastest release possible to hit the window, then how come every supp company hasn’t jumped on that bandwagon to make $$? I’m sure BSN, et. al would love to cash in on this…

Basically I’ve been a loyal Surge consumer, but now I question the science behind it… and even if it does help to have high-GI carbs and hydro whey, how much more then an isolate/gatorade shake? or even, as I said above, a concentrate/isolate blend made with skim milk and some whole grain bread w/ peanut butter? sure would be a crapload cheaper…

2

[quote]muad33b wrote:
Anyone seen this?

There are other threads where Bobo “debunks” the idea of hi-GI carbs being needed post workout…[/quote]

Bobos a smart guy when it comes to nutrition. He an Alan Aragon had a heated debate at bb.com a couple of years back. Bobo argued persuasively that a high-GI carb spike is not required post-workout and can lead to adipose spillover if not properly managed. Alan was initially undeterred by Bobos argument. However, now I believe that Alan has come around to Bobo`s way of thinking.

So, the proofs in the pudding. I retained Bobos services for both a cutting cycle last spring/summer and now I'm on a mass building phase using his principles. Ive been very pleased on both counts. I always believed the bodybuilding lore of protocols like never consuming dairy products during a cut, etc. Now I know this is total BS! In fact, on Bobo`s protocol during my cut I felt like I was always eating and never hungry. Some days I had difficulty getting in all of the Kcals.

My previous mass phases have included selectively spiking insulin at various times, mostly early in the AM and the WO/PWO window. Once again, the age-old bodybuilding lore had reared its head!. On my current phase following Bobos protocol, Im using a Kcal intake similar to previous bulks, but Im adding much less BF this time around while gaining at a solid rate. JBs an intelligent guy, but I’ll definitely go with Bobo on this one!

3

[quote]muad33b wrote:
…even if it does help to have high-GI carbs and hydro whey, how much more then an isolate/gatorade shake? or even, as I said above, a concentrate/isolate blend made with skim milk and some whole grain bread w/ peanut butter?[/quote]

BTW, either of these two PWO solutions will be effective. But skip the peanut butter (as well as other fats) directly PWO.

4

dont kill me but who is bobo?what did youre cutting cycle d for pwo nutrition?

5

Checkout the link to which muad33b is referring at the beginning of this thread. Scroll through until he (BoBo) enters the discussion.

6

link is broken and i wanna read it

7

Cut and paste it into your browser`s address window, hit enter and it will magically appear.

8

Honestly Surge is not THAT expensive, and given the new pricing its less than 2 dollars per serving. The only thing I can think of thats cheaper is whey+milk or just chocolate milk. Gatorade + Whey is like $1.50, Surge isnt that much more.

If you sip it throughout your workout, and maybe even do half before, I’m not sure how much of a “Surge” you would get, but rather a nice flow of insulin over an hour or so. However:

If your nutrition is in order and your meal frequency is high, in all reality you should have insulin present in your body already and not need the spike perhaps.

That shake in question in the forum will cost more than a serving of Surge.

9

I wonder if Bobo is still in love with JB. That’s not the kind of stalker I want to have. :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: Adside from a couple of silly comments, it’s a very good discussion.

10

Not everyione needs the Spike…I don’t. Find out if you do.

11

[quote]muad33b wrote:
Anyone seen this?

There are other threads where Bobo “debunks” the idea of hi-GI carbs being needed post workout, but in this one he specifically calls out Berardi as simply advertising for Surge for $$.

I’ve been using Surge for about 4 months now, and I wonder if it’s even needed… it seems like a normal isolate/concentrate blend made with skim milk w/ some standard low-mod gi carbs would suffice, save me $$ (Surge is very expensive per serving, especially if you weigh > 200 lbs) and potentially help me cut faster (when cutting)… never mind save my teeth (anyone else have sore teeth when drinking Surge?)

I’d love for Berardi to chime in here and go head to head with Bobo over at AM, specially since he’s published his PWO articles over there…

In my mind, if Surge is such a stable of recovery, and it’s obvious that you need 2x CH as you do PRO, and you need the fastest release possible to hit the window, then how come every supp company hasn’t jumped on that bandwagon to make $$? I’m sure BSN, et. al would love to cash in on this…

Basically I’ve been a loyal Surge consumer, but now I question the science behind it… and even if it does help to have high-GI carbs and hydro whey, how much more then an isolate/gatorade shake? or even, as I said above, a concentrate/isolate blend made with skim milk and some whole grain bread w/ peanut butter? sure would be a crapload cheaper…[/quote]

i think if splitting a scientific hair like what’s faster gatorade/isolate or Surge was really that important to you, it isn’t to me, you’d know the answer.

as for Surge i really wouldn’t call it expensive and it sure is a mighty convenient recovery food.

the thing i get from Surge that i don’t get from chocolate milk, or anything else, is it digests really fast, is never filling or bloating and still leaves me with plenty of appetite. i can’t say the same for any other food. after pwo Surge i can start eating real food more quickly and it makes it ALOT easier to get in the calories i need in the 4 hour window i have between an evening workout and bed.

i’m still pissed they changed the original formula though which, other than breast milk straight from the source,was the best tasting supp ever, but whatever.

12

Much can depend on what your goals at the time are. Surge may be appropriate when gaining. It may not be optimal when cutting. I don’t use high-GI carbs when dieting strictly. I take whey protein and supplemental BCAAs post-workout.

When maintaining or gaining I do use Surge. JB is hardly a corporate shill though. He doesn’t recommend Surge himself during periods of strict dieting like his Get Shredded Diet.

13

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Much can depend on what your goals at the time are. Surge may be appropriate when gaining. It may not be optimal when cutting. I don’t use high-GI carbs when dieting strictly. I take whey protein and supplemental BCAAs post-workout.

When maintaining or gaining I do use Surge. JB is hardly a corporate shill though. He doesn’t recommend Surge himself during periods of strict dieting like his Get Shredded Diet.[/quote]

Its an individual thing when it comes to cutting, I’d think. I used Surge when cutting, and had great results.

Oh, and that thread was a good read. Bobo didn’t disprove anything though. Just did a lot of nitpicking.

14

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Honestly Surge is not THAT expensive, and given the new pricing its less than 2 dollars per serving. The only thing I can think of thats cheaper is whey+milk or just chocolate milk. Gatorade + Whey is like $1.50, Surge isnt that much more.[/quote]

Yeah, I don’t get the cost argument. I don’t always take surge. I rotate between Surge and skim milk + chocolate syrup. Not because of cost, but because I believe in rotating things.

Most guys bitching about cost will gladly toss $1.25 into a soda machine for a 20 oz. diet coke and spend $2 on a cup of coffee at the 7-11 or Starbucks. Yet they’re penny-pinchers when it comes to things that will actually help their bodies.

Oh well, it’s not like many people are well known for being rational actors when it comes to money!

15

[quote]Houshin Akai wrote:
Oh, and that thread was a good read. Bobo didn’t disprove anything though. Just did a lot of nitpicking.[/quote]
He didn`t have to disprove anything, the results in the posted PubMed synopses speak for themselves. Just read the dark print. The studies are either correct or flawed, take your pick.

16

^ and honestly it dosent really even matter. Its the persons opinion.

If you go to one cardiologist and he says it will take “X” to get you healthy, I bet there will be another cardiologist, in that same city, that will reccomend somthing diffrent. Does that mean the the first doctor is wrong, what about the 2nd? Who’s right?

Everybody has diffrent opions about everything. Its up to you to take all of the information and apply it to yourself and see which works best…

Since the begenning of time, its all been the same.

Trial and error.

17

^ which hopefully converges on the optimal answer at any point in time given the current body of knowledge, otherwise everything becomes a random walk.

Does it matter? Yes, that’s why the OP asked the question. Is there clear-cut science behind JBs recommendation, is his question. The answer based on published research is an emphatic no,` not clear cut by any means.

18

Low cost Surge

Non fat chocolat milk and add some BCAA’s for the added boost.

I still beleive that the PWO drink is a good thing for bulking. The science is just right.

Good discusion though. Makes you think.

19

[quote]swivel wrote:
the thing i get from Surge that i don’t get from chocolate milk, or anything else, is it digests really fast, is never filling or bloating and still leaves me with plenty of appetite. i can’t say the same for any other food. after pwo Surge i can start eating real food more quickly and it makes it ALOT easier to get in the calories i need in the 4 hour window i have between an evening workout and bed.
[/quote]

I find this also to be true. I find Surge to be “lighter” on my gut, so to speak and that’s kind of nice. But hey, if you want to try a different approach and not do the high GI carbs PWO, give it a try. See if it works for you since there is no real harm in trying it for a while.

20

I don’t understand the mentality of this thread. If you don’t want to use Surge- don’t. No one is forcing you. No one is pulling your credit card out and ordering it for you. If people on here are telling you that you won’t get as good as results from it, maybe they are right and maybe they aren’t. Who cares?

If you need someone else to write an article to give you justification [i]not[/i] to buy a certain product you’re pretty sad.

I understand the overall mentality of this forum to suggest, and continually suggest, Biotest products (I do it myself) but seriously a recommendation is just that- a recommendation. It’s not a requirement.

As for JB being a shill. That’s an insult not worthy of responding to. Marketing a product is one thing, which he does well, but being called a shill is disrespectful and completely uncalled for.