I’m 6’1" 185 nekid so not big by any means. I’ve found that I simply have to low bar my squats to achieve enough weight to force any change. My lower back simply can’t handle high bar. I fucking hate front squats cuz I can’t keep the 225 from rolling forward. So, that being said low bar has been my savior. Decent numbers 270 bench, 365X3 true parallel squat, 405X5 deads.
Does the T-Nation community consider low bar cheating?
huh? low bar squatting puts more stress on the lower back. Strange
I have no idea how or why anyone would ever consider this to be cheating.
Besides, the goal of bodybuilding is to build muscle not lift weight, so its impossible to “cheat” a lift. Though even if your goal was to lift weight, low bar is not cheating…
You are posting this in the bodybuilding forum. Bodybuilding is about getting bigger, so as long as you are doing the movement safely and are seeing results who cares if people consider it “cheating”.
Is that a recent avatar?
When I high bar my lower back fails way before my quads. I could barely max 365 high, tripled it recently low. I didn’t get that much stronger in a couple weeks so it was simply core strength. That avatar is about 6 months old. I need some new pics but my bitch girlfriend makes it such a hassle.
I guess cheating isn’t the word I should have used. When people discuss their squatting routine I always assumed it was high bar and less than they could do when low bared.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I’m 6’1" 185 nekid so not big by any means. I’ve found that I simply have to low bar my squats to achieve enough weight to force any change. My lower back simply can’t handle high bar. I fucking hate front squats cuz I can’t keep the 225 from rolling forward. So, that being said low bar has been my savior. Decent numbers 270 bench, 365X3 true parallel squat, 405X5 deads.
Does the T-Nation community consider low bar cheating? [/quote]
I squat with a fairly low bar.
I have relatively long legs (sucked for swimming too), so the position I use allows me to squat substantial weight (which I feel is important for my growth) and still get a lot of emphasis in the quads.
Course, I then follow these with heel-elevated front squats and then leg extensions. Quad death!
I had to use the almighty Google to find out what a low bar squat is (wasn’t familiar w/ the technical name).
I don’t see how that would be considered cheating, for cheating is classically defined as using momentum and herky-jerk movements to lift.
Props to you though for being able to back squat. I’m the same height and that shit is difficult as hell for me to go ATG.
Front squats are my shit.
If you’re having difficulty keeping the bar from rolling, I’d either experiment with the two grips available for it…or lighten the load and work back up until strong enough to maintain it.
Ive always squatted high bar with a relatively close stance, dropping it ATG.
I never really planned it, it just happened to be comfortable and felt “right”.
Low bar is going to be pretty hard if your a deep squatter, powerlifting does not require extremely deep squats.
If 225 is rolling off your shoulders while you front squat, I’m guessing there is a 99.9% chance that the bar isn’t set up tight enough against your neck. You should feel like you’re choking yourself kinda.
Just some food for thought.
You training your legs or training your butt/back?
Worry less about moving the weight to work the muscle and more about moving the muscle to work the weight…
Take a shoulder width stance, or even slightly narrower. Break first at the knees. Drop down as far as you can or as far as you comfortably can (I like hamstrings to calves…but I’m only 5’5"). Don’t worry about what your knee placement compared to foot, just drop. The way most of us were first taught how to squat (butt/hips out first) is wrong for actually building the legs
Lower bar, Wider stance, but/hip out first = more weight, more of a PL style
Higher bar, Narrower stance, knees out first = less weight, truely working the muscle.
*Combine this with a true pumping action (up, down, up down, do not ever stop) OR don’t even go to full lock-out. Try a high bar, narrow stance, knees break first, AND no lock out and you won’t use much weight but you will feel the squat in your legs more than you EVER have.
On a side note: Most people Front Squat with too much weight, basically using their hips instead of their legs. Most people will REP, pant, pant, pant, REP, pant, pant, pant, REP, so are basically doing clusters…and again don’t go down far enough.
Alan
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
huh? low bar squatting puts more stress on the lower back. Strange [/quote]
Perhaps he means bar placement, but with body position same (i.e. same angle, low bar gives less leverage on the low back. In other words he’s not doing hi bar squats in an upright possition?).
Having said that, surely if he continues to add weight he’ll have problems untill his low back strength increases?
Well it could be considered cheating in a sense, because you’re very likely taking the stress off of your thighs and putting it onto your glutes and lower back. Meaning you’d be cheating yourself out of quad development from squatting.
More concerning is that you had greater lower back pain with a high-bar squat - and that you can’t keep front squats from rolling forward - which indicates that your form sucks balls.
Somewhere in that chain you are weak or inflexible or uncoordinated, but instead of rectifying it you’ve used a technique to go around it (for now at least), but that style of squatting usually doesn’t do fuck all for developing your thighs.
Me personally, I would say fix your form.
If building quads is your main priority. I personally feel that leg presses and hack squats are much better options if you cant front squat. If your doing a back squat, especially with a low bar its gonna be a hip dominant movement and your ass is going to get a lot more stimulation then your quads. I would deff try a hack squat or a leg press. Or just get your form fixed on those front squats.
Is the bar in contact with your skin during front squats (not wearing a shirt)? If so, try wearing a short sleeve shirt. I usually train at home without a shirt, and find front squats roll foward unless I wear a shirt. Or you could try chalk.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
huh? low bar squatting puts more stress on the lower back. Strange [/quote]
I find it easier to keep my back straight with the bar low across the middle of my traps. It allows my to keep my chest up better and lock my arms into place too.
Not sure about cheating though. Theres an Olympic lifter at my gym who says that low bar squats centre the weight over your hips and make it more hamstring and glute dominant, but I’ve not really looked into it that much. How much can back squats differ?
Hmmm. Your not very good at high bar… and you cant stay upright with front squats. Sounds like you have a weak core. Not really answering your question, but thats what it looks like.
if it causes your muscle to grow
do it
fuck if it is “cheating” unless your safety is at risk
repeat for years.
[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
huh? low bar squatting puts more stress on the lower back. Strange [/quote]
I find it easier to keep my back straight with the bar low across the middle of my traps. It allows my to keep my chest up better and lock my arms into place too.
Not sure about cheating though. Theres an Olympic lifter at my gym who says that low bar squats centre the weight over your hips and make it more hamstring and glute dominant, but I’ve not really looked into it that much. How much can back squats differ?
[/quote]
Yea the low bar placement will hit the whole posterior chain more. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, I’ve just never heard someone say that high bar placement taxes the lower back more than low bar. Not that it matters though as long as the target muscles are getting hit.