[quote]Hanley wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
Hanley,
is all about getting stronger.
i agree, that in this particular case(travis mash) he is already plenty strong, so he would do well to get coached and improving technique would suit HIM better.
but as in the case i described above, if you are in your 20’s, about 200lbs, and cant full squat 400lbs, you should give more attention to building strength. box squats, gm, ghr, chains, bands, etc will do that.
I’m not denying that chains, bands, boxes and the likes are useful. I’ve had great success with bands on the bench and chains off boards. We’re FINALLY getting an adjustable box in the gym next week so once my comp in Jan’s out of the way I’ll be working off that for a few months to see what it’s like.
I was just taking the piss with the whole “it’s all about boxes and ghr’s…”. People are so terrified of becoming “quad dominant” (oh no, run and hide, the evil quads are coming!!!) that they neglect to do any real work for them. They seem to end up on the box and doing lots of P-chain work instead. Obviously that’s very important, but so is total leg strength.
I just think that working hard on traditional squat variations (back, front and pause) and waving the loads and rep ranges are more than enough to get someone started on the road to a big squat.
My thought on it has always been to work hard on the basics and save the box, bands, chains etc til I stall out. I train with pretty old school crowd who’ve probably never heard of westside but two of them are still squatting 700+ @ 220 in single ply gear, that alone is enough to assure me the basics work!!
Hell they might have has the same success if they squatted exclusively off a box for the last 10-15 years, I honestly don’t know. What I do know is that what the did worked, so there’s no reason it won’t contiune to work for me and others.[/quote]
hmm, it is often hard to infer “attitude” from text, so if i am off the mark regarding this post, just check me and i will apologize.
that out of the way…
exactly what do you think you are telling me? that basics, like squatting pulling and pressing produce results? and how old are you, and how long have you been lifting? and how many different strength sports have you competed in?
you can do a cursory search of my posts on this and many other forums that i have b been on for the last 8 years or so, and get an idea of my thoughts on training in general, i will assume you have better things to do, so why dont you take me at my word when i say that i am by no means a westside fanatic/disciple/drinker of the kool-aid.
the first few years of my training life were almost totally olympic lifts for the throws, even as a competitive PL i trained for a few years, with no westside influence and a typical progressive overload linear style periodization.
on many occasions i have expressed to many that people were getting strong and setting records in the powerlifts long before boxsquats, ghr, revers hypers, chains and bands. larry pacifico, don reindhought, ed coan, mike bridges, gene bell, those names mean anything to you?
WHAT I WAS REALY TRYING TO SAY was that many in the mainstream strength community snub there noses at westside training period, over the years, quite begrudgingly, the “establishment” has conceded that westside might be pretty useful to PL’s,(gee you think?) but still not for athletes.
but there is a lot of real world evidence that that is just not the case. westside style training can be just as effective or more so than anything else out there.
talk to louie and he can give you before and after numbers of the many HS, college and pro teams that have adopted his stuff, AND back it all up.
when i trained at diablo barbell, an APF westside style pl gym, they trained a division A college football player one off-season, on a very standard westside spit, using wide box squats, chains, bands, etc., and when he went back he set all sorts of persoanl AND school records in the vertical jump, long jump, BP for reps, Squat, Powerclean(even though as i understand it, he did no powercleans while there at diablo), and the STILL had him change back to the 3x10 olympic lifts with some bodybuilding stuff mixed in training that the rest of the team was doing.
whew…
i doubt that anyone has the patience to sift through that horribly composed and unorganized rant in its entirety, so i will sum up: no i am not trying to say westside with all the wide box squats etc, is the be all end all, just that it is just as effective and perhaps even more so than the other schools of thought about how to train athletes.
oh, do a search at elite fitness systems, look at the slabs of muscle on many of those guys thighs, and tell me wide stance box squats do not build quads.
