Seems pretty useless to me…but has anyone actually tried anything like this?
Probably useless, likely dangerous.
Sheer idiocy.
I didn’t even watch the video, just saw the screencap of a guy doing lifts with bands on the bar, but I will say this. As far as I’m aware, Louie Simmons is well known for producing guys who do very well in the multiply, nontested powerlifting feds, some of which may have looser judging and rule enforcement from what I’ve heard. I put basically zero stock in anything he has to say regarding producing elite weightlifters and will continue to do so until he either produces an elite weightlifter or I start to see the sense in what he’s saying regarding weightlifting, neither of which I expect to happen in my lifetime.
And putting bands on a lift that is already explosive and ballistic makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe I’ll actually watch the video later just to see where he’s coming from so I can have a more detailed and informed reason as to why he’s blowing smoke out of his ass.
EDIT: And no, I have never tried using bands on the Olympic lifts.
I thought the last minute or so about training partners was the most informational part of the whole thing.
They caution no one to try this. They know it’s dangerous and no reason for anyone else to attempt is what the guy makes clear at the beginning.
As a method of training trying to push the weights, bands just seem downright dangerous, and it must screw up the bar path a bit.
As a way of teaching someone to keep on pulling throughout the whole lift and to improve speed under the bar I could see it may be useful with light weights. I’d be interested to give it a try anyway
[quote]The Ox Man wrote:
As a method of training trying to push the weights, bands just seem downright dangerous, and it must screw up the bar path a bit.
As a way of teaching someone to keep on pulling throughout the whole lift and to improve speed under the bar I could see it may be useful with light weights. I’d be interested to give it a try anyway[/quote]
Bands can also be used to teach a beginner how to “pull apart” the bar when doing exercises such as the bench press. I believe I’ve seen that in a Dave Tate video before…
[quote]The Anchor wrote:
[quote]The Ox Man wrote:
As a method of training trying to push the weights, bands just seem downright dangerous, and it must screw up the bar path a bit.
As a way of teaching someone to keep on pulling throughout the whole lift and to improve speed under the bar I could see it may be useful with light weights. I’d be interested to give it a try anyway[/quote]
Bands can also be used to teach a beginner how to “pull apart” the bar when doing exercises such as the bench press. I believe I’ve seen that in a Dave Tate video before…[/quote]
You have
[quote]TheJonty wrote:
I didn’t even watch the video, just saw the screencap of a guy doing lifts with bands on the bar, but I will say this. As far as I’m aware, Louie Simmons is well known for producing guys who do very well in the multiply, nontested powerlifting feds, some of which may have looser judging and rule enforcement from what I’ve heard. I put basically zero stock in anything he has to say regarding producing elite weightlifters and will continue to do so until he either produces an elite weightlifter or I start to see the sense in what he’s saying regarding weightlifting, neither of which I expect to happen in my lifetime.
And putting bands on a lift that is already explosive and ballistic makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe I’ll actually watch the video later just to see where he’s coming from so I can have a more detailed and informed reason as to why he’s blowing smoke out of his ass.
EDIT: And no, I have never tried using bands on the Olympic lifts.[/quote]
In Louie’s defense, he is very good at putting elite poundages on guys that don’t compete multi-ply, and even raw guys and NFL guys.
But I wouldn’t take his word on olympic weightlifting at all. Ever.
I don’t think the bands are a smart idea at all. POSSIBLY ok on a regular overhead squat as a way of just overload, but flat-out not a good idea on an actual variation of a comp. lift. And in any case bands have a “grounding” effect in terms of stabilization, so they’re not necessarily ideal there if your structure is shaky.
from what i gathered from the video the guy could clean 2/300pounds(cant remember the number) but was struggling on 135 with bands which means that bands are used with very low percentages. maybe its a good idea when used with low percentages? squatting wide doesnt seem too smart seeing that when you clean or snatch you wont be going wide. i wanna see if he actually produces elite world class athletes or not.
I think where one of the disconnects is trying to take techniques Louie has used for powerlifting and tranposing it onto weightlifting. A rack pull is a pretty good mimic of the position you’re pulling from when the bar gets up towards your knees on a deadlift. But unracking a bar in the overhead position and doing a squat is so different from doing a snatch. This is one of the reasons I’m shy away from listening to Louie is he so dogmatic that he can create the best athlete in any sport when he only has really created elite powerlifters.
[quote]no_name_narrator wrote:
I think where one of the disconnects is trying to take techniques Louie has used for powerlifting and tranposing it onto weightlifting. A rack pull is a pretty good mimic of the position you’re pulling from when the bar gets up towards your knees on a deadlift. But unracking a bar in the overhead position and doing a squat is so different from doing a snatch. This is one of the reasons I’m shy away from listening to Louie is he so dogmatic that he can create the best athlete in any sport when he only has really created elite powerlifters. [/quote]
i understand that. But Louie has also really done good things with football athletes, and other “field” athletes. There’s a good reason he’s been consulted by pro NFL teams in the past.
Fully agree on the big difference from OH squat to snatch. This was driven home to me the past year or so. Still though, if your OH squat is super weak I think it can stand a good amount of strengthening. But I was mostly saying that as a way of stating the ONLY use for bands is in “strength movements” rather than olympic movements. OH squat is still a strength movement, although I’ll be damned if I’m going to attach bands to a bar held over my head while I’m squatting. Unless the safety pins are set above head level in the hole lol.
He’s selling bands, that’s all there is to it.
[quote]PHGN wrote:
He’s selling bands, that’s all there is to it.[/quote]
Yep.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
In Louie’s defense, he is very good at putting elite poundages on guys that don’t compete multi-ply, and even raw guys and NFL guys.
But I wouldn’t take his word on olympic weightlifting at all. Ever.[/quote]
Things I’ve read on other forums have suggested he’s really good at getting people strong, but his lifters tend to be more successful in the multi-ply feds rather than the single-ply or raw feds. I don’t follow powerlifting enough to be able to state my own opinion on it rather than parroting somebody else’s and he seems fairly intelligent about lifting heavy shit, but as regards weightlifting, like you said, I wouldn’t listen to him ever.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Fully agree on the big difference from OH squat to snatch. This was driven home to me the past year or so. Still though, if your OH squat is super weak I think it can stand a good amount of strengthening. But I was mostly saying that as a way of stating the ONLY use for bands is in “strength movements” rather than olympic movements. OH squat is still a strength movement, although I’ll be damned if I’m going to attach bands to a bar held over my head while I’m squatting. Unless the safety pins are set above head level in the hole lol. [/quote]
I would make the argument that the overhead squat is better used as a diagnostic test rather than as a movement used to get stronger. I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no way anyone should ever get pinned under a snatch ever. If your overhead squat is weak but your regular squats are fine, then the problem doesn’t lie with the prime movers in the movement (the legs and hips) but rather there’s a kink somewhere along the way in the force production from your feet to the barbell. Maybe poor flexibility/mobility leading to poor positions and a lack of stability or something like that.
As a side note, I really enjoy doing snatch, but I do not in the least bit enjoy doing overhead squats.
[quote]TheJonty wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Fully agree on the big difference from OH squat to snatch. This was driven home to me the past year or so. Still though, if your OH squat is super weak I think it can stand a good amount of strengthening. But I was mostly saying that as a way of stating the ONLY use for bands is in “strength movements” rather than olympic movements. OH squat is still a strength movement, although I’ll be damned if I’m going to attach bands to a bar held over my head while I’m squatting. Unless the safety pins are set above head level in the hole lol. [/quote]
I would make the argument that the overhead squat is better used as a diagnostic test rather than as a movement used to get stronger. I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no way anyone should ever get pinned under a snatch ever. If your overhead squat is weak but your regular squats are fine, then the problem doesn’t lie with the prime movers in the movement (the legs and hips) but rather there’s a kink somewhere along the way in the force production from your feet to the barbell. Maybe poor flexibility/mobility leading to poor positions and a lack of stability or something like that.
As a side note, I really enjoy doing snatch, but I do not in the least bit enjoy doing overhead squats.
[/quote]
Well I do agree with you there, but one of the things that can be wrong is the balance point and also the stability with weight in the hole. Poor position could be a result of a stability under load problem rather than mobility. There are some people out there, not an insignificant number, who can reach a full overhead squat with light loads but collapse under moderate loads. I don’t think if you can front squat a bunch of weight that your legs or hips are going to be the problem, but the easiest thing i can think of to fix aforesaid problem with the shoulders is to strengthen the shoulders in the specific position…aka overhead squat more lol. It is a lot more challenging position than the standing push press for stability sake. Stabilization around a joint is the unseen partner to mobility issues, and this stability often breaks down under extended ranges of motion and remains unseen in other circumstances.
Clearly the overhead squat isn’t a great substitute for the snatch if you want to increase your snatch. That’s a given. But when I made the other post I was mostly thinking about strength movements, not olympic movements. Bands, or accommodating resistance in general, is much more effective in a strength based exercise; it’s next to useless in an olympic movement. This is why I mentioned the fact that bands could conceivably have a place for overloading overhead squats–but that’s just plain risky and I wouldn’t want to do it lol.
As an aside, if you can’t or don’t want to take the time to learn the olympic lifts and variations the overhead squat is about the best back, shoulder, and trap builder you can ask for. True whole body movement for non-oly lifters interested in mass and strength. But it is late and I am rambling…I hate insomnia lol.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Well I do agree with you there, but one of the things that can be wrong is the balance point and also the stability with weight in the hole. Poor position could be a result of a stability under load problem rather than mobility. There are some people out there, not an insignificant number, who can reach a full overhead squat with light loads but collapse under moderate loads. I don’t think if you can front squat a bunch of weight that your legs or hips are going to be the problem, but the easiest thing i can think of to fix aforesaid problem with the shoulders is to strengthen the shoulders in the specific position…aka overhead squat more lol. It is a lot more challenging position than the standing push press for stability sake. Stabilization around a joint is the unseen partner to mobility issues, and this stability often breaks down under extended ranges of motion and remains unseen in other circumstances.
[/quote]
Would behind the neck snatch grip press/push press be a useful alternative to just doing more overhead squats insofar as building stability under the load? I’ve never done much of them, never had too much need to, but it seems like that movement could help as well.
I agree with you about the stabilization around a joint. Flexibility and mobility doesn’t do you much good in a strength sport if you are not strong and stable through that extended range of motion.
Or even just performing a 3 to 5-count hold/lockout on all overhead press singles or last reps in sets wither they be military press, push press, Klokov press, muscle snatch, power snatch, etc.
[quote]TheJonty wrote:
Would behind the neck snatch grip press/push press be a useful alternative to just doing more overhead squats insofar as building stability under the load? I’ve never done much of them, never had too much need to, but it seems like that movement could help as well.
I agree with you about the stabilization around a joint. Flexibility and mobility doesn’t do you much good in a strength sport if you are not strong and stable through that extended range of motion.[/quote]
Sure, I think so. It would definitely get you stronger in the shoulders. And as the poster above me notes lockouts and holds can help a lot. Problem you may or may not run into is that stability has a position specific skill component. How many people do you know that have the mobility to full squat but can’t stay stable in the hole and things collapse? You don’t generally train for the stability or strength in the hole by doing partial squats do you? Nope, because it doesn’t carry over into the position your torso and hips are in when you are down in the hole.
That being said there are some big differences between that example and the snatch, obviously. And there are a number of people that snatch big weight without doing lots of overhead squats. I’m all for the easy way if it works. I do, however, believe they can have some utility.