Looking Like a Fitness Model

Training
41

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]
OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.

What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”

tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]

Strength or hypertrophy depends on how many reps in set. Overall, muscle mass depends on total volume.

If you want to gain strength, use 5 reps.

If you want to gain more muscle, use 10 reps.

So if your goal is to gain as much muscle as possible, use any strength training routine and change its set x rep from 3x5 or 5x5 to 4x10. Whenever hit 10 reps, increase weight.

Isnt it simple?

42

[quote]t888 wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]
OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.

What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”

tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]

Strength or hypertrophy depends on how many reps in set. Overall, muscle mass depends on total volume.

If you want to gain strength, use 5 reps.

If you want to gain more muscle, use 10 reps.

So if your goal is to gain as much muscle as possible, use any strength training routine and change its set x rep from 3x5 or 5x5 to 4x10. Whenever hit 10 reps, increase weight.

Isnt it simple?[/quote]
yes its simple but not obvious to the beginner believe it or not. Some people really believe that getting a good pump means muscles will grow, even if they never add weight. And split routines as written often only list sets and reps but don’t even say when to add weight, so some people never do. I’m serious people do this.

Even then, 4x10 with sloppy reps won’t build an MMC which is crucial if hypertrophy is the goal, and if the trainee keeps adding weight they are destined for an injury depending on the exercise.

A 5x5 program is ideal for the beginner to learn progressive overload, adjusting form, strict adherence to a program and other basic principles, even if they only follow a 5x5 for say 6 months

43

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]

OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.

What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”

tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]

I disagree. If a beginner cannot grasp what it means to train HARD within the context of a BBing split, after telling him that he should chase PRs in reasonable set/rep schemes without resorting to retarded form breakdowns, then nothing will help him. Certainly not wasting time with a program like 5x5.

The reason so many beginners never properly progress on BBing splits is NOT that they use BBing splits BUT that they are taking the easy way (they are pussies who avoid putting in the hard work). In my experience, you cannot help these guys. They just don’t have the right mental attitude. Unfortunately, 90% of the people in the gyms are part of this group.

44

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.

@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]

serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?[/quote]

The sky is blue, the grass is green, and infinite_shore knows all and hates everyone.

You’ll either learn to ignore it (much like with our favorite professor) or it’ll piss you off all the time. I’d just let it go. [/quote]

It doesn’t piss me off; it’s a genuine curiosity.

I want to get to know the man behind the dickishness.[/quote]

Shit is simple. It’s just so hard to deal with all the blatant stupidity screaming in your face all the time. Sometimes I can’t contain myself. Most people are stupid, so they will never understand how offending stupidity is for smart people.

Also, people on this forum are so easily offended. How about checking out the name of this webpage for a change?

Anyway, I might be blunt at times but I’m never a baseless “hater”. I also try to help people.

45

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.

@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]

serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?[/quote]

The sky is blue, the grass is green, and infinite_shore knows all and hates everyone.

You’ll either learn to ignore it (much like with our favorite professor) or it’ll piss you off all the time. I’d just let it go. [/quote]

It doesn’t piss me off; it’s a genuine curiosity.

I want to get to know the man behind the dickishness.[/quote]

Shit is simple. It’s just so hard to deal with all the blatant stupidity screaming in your face all the time. Sometimes I can’t contain myself. Most people are stupid, so they will never understand how offending stupidity is for smart people.

Also, people on this forum are so easily offended. How about checking out the name of this webpage for a change?

Anyway, I might be blunt at times but I’m never a baseless “hater”. I also try to help people. [/quote]

Unfortunately not everyone is as amazing as you believe yourself to be.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Most people are stupid [/quote]

Classic.

46


Don’t hate. Remember the wisdom of Bill and Ted.

47

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
The reason so many beginners never properly progress on BBing splits is NOT that they use BBing splits BUT that they are taking the easy way (they are pussies who avoid putting in the hard work). In my experience, you cannot help these guys. They just don’t have the right mental attitude. Unfortunately, 90% of the people in the gyms are part of this group.[/quote]
Yes exactly. Probably even more than 90% lol.

This is the reason most people don’t progress on ANY program, bb split or otherwise. An aggressive attitude with a shitty program is still usually better than a good program where you’re just going through the motions.

You can help those people obviously, but you have to hammer it into them that they have to lift with intensity. There’s nothing magical about doing the numbers written on a piece of paper; it matters how you do it too.

48

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Shit is simple. It’s just so hard to deal with all the blatant stupidity screaming in your face all the time. Sometimes I can’t contain myself. Most people are stupid, so they will never understand how offending stupidity is for smart people.

Also, people on this forum are so easily offended. How about checking out the name of this webpage for a change?

Anyway, I might be blunt at times but I’m never a baseless “hater”. I also try to help people. [/quote]
You have a social disorder. Some people walk with a limp. Some people stutter when they speak. Some people struggle to interact normally lol.

49

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

Anyway, I might be blunt at times but I’m never a baseless “hater”. I also try to help people.[/quote]

I agree with this.

50

Damn it, I am even more confused now

51

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.

@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]

serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?[/quote]

The sky is blue, the grass is green, and infinite_shore knows all and hates everyone.

You’ll either learn to ignore it (much like with our favorite professor) or it’ll piss you off all the time. I’d just let it go. [/quote]

It doesn’t piss me off; it’s a genuine curiosity.

I want to get to know the man behind the dickishness.[/quote]

Shit is simple. It’s just so hard to deal with all the blatant stupidity screaming in your face all the time. Sometimes I can’t contain myself. Most people are stupid, so they will never understand how offending stupidity is for smart people.

Also, people on this forum are so easily offended. How about checking out the name of this webpage for a change?

Anyway, I might be blunt at times but I’m never a baseless “hater”. I also try to help people. [/quote]

That ego :slight_smile: so smaahhhhht

52

IS, you wanna see true, unadulerated stupidity?

53

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Damn it, I am even more confused now[/quote]

Relax. Everyone is saying the same thing.

  1. Get stronger/set PRs on the main exercises. Attack the weight with aggression, explode up, lower under control.

  2. Use the target muscles to move the weight on isolations. Focus on MMC/ quality of contraction.

  3. EAT.

54

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Damn it, I am even more confused now[/quote]

Relax. Everyone is saying the same thing.

  1. Get stronger/set PRs on the main exercises. Attack the weight with aggression, explode up, lower under control.

  2. Use the target muscles to move the weight on isolations. Focus on MMC/ quality of contraction.

  3. EAT.

[/quote]
truth don’t neglect any of these

55

[quote]dt79 wrote:
IS, you wanna see true, unadulerated stupidity?

:frowning: so sad

56

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]

OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.

What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”

tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]

I disagree. If a beginner cannot grasp what it means to train HARD within the context of a BBing split, after telling him that he should chase PRs in reasonable set/rep schemes without resorting to retarded form breakdowns, then nothing will help him. Certainly not wasting time with a program like 5x5.

The reason so many beginners never properly progress on BBing splits is NOT that they use BBing splits BUT that they are taking the easy way (they are pussies who avoid putting in the hard work). In my experience, you cannot help these guys. They just don’t have the right mental attitude. Unfortunately, 90% of the people in the gyms are part of this group.[/quote]

Well, you can still try to help these guys. Thing is, the people that grasp hard training can jump into BB split and succeed, thus they don’t hop onto a forum and say “how do i train?” THe fact you are even answering the question for someone tells you a BB split won’t work right out of the gate for them. but a 5x5 routine will sure teach someone what hard training is

57

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.

@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]

OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.

What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”

tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]

I disagree. If a beginner cannot grasp what it means to train HARD within the context of a BBing split, after telling him that he should chase PRs in reasonable set/rep schemes without resorting to retarded form breakdowns, then nothing will help him. Certainly not wasting time with a program like 5x5.

The reason so many beginners never properly progress on BBing splits is NOT that they use BBing splits BUT that they are taking the easy way (they are pussies who avoid putting in the hard work). In my experience, you cannot help these guys. They just don’t have the right mental attitude. Unfortunately, 90% of the people in the gyms are part of this group.[/quote]

Well, you can still try to help these guys. Thing is, the people that grasp hard training can jump into BB split and succeed, thus they don’t hop onto a forum and say “how do i train?” THe fact you are even answering the question for someone tells you a BB split won’t work right out of the gate for them. but a 5x5 routine will sure teach someone what hard training is
[/quote]

5x5 doesn’t mean they train hard? How does that teach hard training? You teach yourself how to push yourself. The routine doesn’t do that

58

F@ck it, just name a routine and I will follow it

59

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
F@ck it, just name a routine and I will follow it[/quote]
Yeah, come on guys. Will someone please help this kid and suggest a specific routine?

[quote]JFG wrote:
If you think 6 months of SS is going to “ruin” your chanced of a fitness model career, I don’t know what to say.[/quote]

[quote]dt79 wrote:
I think it would be best that you pick a routine from here

or do 5/3/1 before you start doing your own thing.[/quote]

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
IMO the most efficient style of training for hypertrophy is that espoused by John Meadows.[/quote]

[quote]I wrote:
there are several plans are discussed here:

12 Programs to Follow [/quote]

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
If you’re looking for a good P/P/L split, look in the thread dt79 posted.[/quote]

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
there are advantages to a short SS focus, even if you limited the duration. You could look into greyskull LP if you’re looking for more volume, it’s slower progression, though.[/quote]

Dude, it’s been a week and you’re still stuck thinking. At your current level, [i]it absolutely does not matter[/i] what program you do. The most important thing is that you actually start something, train hard, eat right, and stick with it for several uninterrupted months to see real progress.

60

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Dude, it’s been a week and you’re still stuck thinking. At your current level, [i]it absolutely does not matter[/i] what program you do. The most important thing is that you actually start something, train hard, eat right, and stick with it for several uninterrupted months to see real progress.[/quote]

This, exactly.

Old man rant alert: The internet is an amazing thing–so much info at one’s fingertips. That said, the downside of this info cornucopia is how easily it can lead to paralysis-by-analysis. When I was 17, no one dithered over their ‘macros,’ and/or whether 5/3/1 was better than SS was better than Waterbury was better than etc, because none of us would have had access to such info even if it had existed back then. So in our ignorance, we just lifted and ate. A little ignorance would go a long way toward solving OP’s dilemma.