Looking Like a Fitness Model

jacktheman · August 29, 2014, 11:26pm

Basically the title. I don’t want to be scolded by anyone I just want to ask something-

If you are a beginner and your goal is to look like a fitness model (Some Jeff Seid,Zyzz aeshtetics), why would starting strength; ICF 5x5; Stronglifts be the best “proven” programs for beginners when they are strength oriented ? I would appreciate if someone helps me on this one and orients me to a program split or whatever for my goal. Thanks in advance guys !!!

P.S. My diet is on point and I am in a position for a lean bulk.

JFG · August 30, 2014, 1:09am

You are missing the first word of SS.

If you are a beginner, your goal to develop habits. Good habits based on basics. Are they perfect? heck no. They just get you started.

If you think 6 months of SS is going to “ruin” your chanced of a fitness model career, I don’t know what to say.

Knowing, also, where you are coming from, would help in your goal setting. A collegiate athlete will have a different discussion then the never seen a gym video kid.

Nothing wrong with a BB split, it’s just that most newb get bogged down in the minor shit and forget the foundation.

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 1:27pm

How about a push/pull/legs/rest1day and then repeat (2x frequency hitting each muscle group) Is that going to yield no less results ? Provided that if it will yield the same results, can you orient me to the most beneficial one ?

TrevorLPT · August 30, 2014, 2:28pm

Have you ever lifted seriously and consistently before? Do you have an athletic background? How old are you?

dt79 · August 30, 2014, 2:32pm

Any program will work as long as you get stronger on the the main compound exercises, put in the required intensity/ effort and are consistent in your diet.

The reason a lot of beginners fail on split routines is because they fail to see the importance of developing strength along with size and end up still skinny fat a year later while only benching their bodyweight.

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 3:15pm

Just wanna ask: apart from benching more; shoulder pressing more; squating more; rowing more; deadlifting more; does adding more plate on machines and weight on isolations mean the same - progressive overload and getting stronger thus meaning getting bigger ?

dt79 · August 30, 2014, 4:10pm

Look at it this way:

If you increase your bench, your dumbbell press is likely going to go up as well. Otherwise you may have a problem with cheating too much or excessively cutting short your range of motion just to move more weight if only your dumbbell press is increasing.

Use the secondary exercises to focus on the contraction. Feel the muscle do the work. Increase weight when you can, but always put your all into each set. Contract explosively, lower under control.

And do not forget your diet. If you don’t gain weight, you won’t grow.

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 4:07pm

So pretty much because I am a beginner everything will work, provided I stick to strict nutrition, don’t skip workouts and have all the main lifts - bench; shoulder press; deadlift; rows; squats will work and I can add as much as isolation for everything as I want ? Dat correct ?

dt79 · August 30, 2014, 4:17pm

You got it. Just don’t go too crazy with the volume.

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 4:32pm

Thanks.

Let’s say that I start with high volume and be able to recover adequately and manage to train like this and make good gains and etc. Then when the gains stop (I plateau) will the fact that I STARTED with too high volume will screw me over when I hit that plateau because from what I have read, increasing the volume is the main plateau-breaker and in my case adding more volume to already high volume will not be possible… Or I should train with the most volume I can handle despite it being pretty high and don’t worry about stuff like that ?

Deep gratitude,
Jack

Yogi1 · August 30, 2014, 4:40pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
So pretty much because I am a beginner everything will work, provided I stick to strict nutrition, don’t skip workouts and have all the main lifts - bench; shoulder press; deadlift; rows; squats will work and I can add as much as isolation for everything as I want ? Dat correct ?[/quote]

poifick!

Chris_Colucci · August 30, 2014, 5:17pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
If you are a beginner and your goal is to look like a fitness model (Some Jeff Seid,Zyzz aeshtetics), why would starting strength; ICF 5x5; Stronglifts be the best “proven” programs for beginners when they are strength oriented ?[/quote]
What if I told you… that some of the best bodybuilders and best physiques trained primarily for strength long before training specifically for muscle size/shape. Truth. From what I’ve read, even Seid was lifting as a wrestler and football player in high school and got more into bodybuilding after an ACL injury.

As was mentioned, there are lots of different ways there, but it’s nonsensical to think that 6 or even 12 months sticking to a mostly or all-compound lift program (when well-designed and appropriately followed with proper nutrition) won’t build a solid all-around muscular base.

Starting Strength or similar routines aren’t cure-alls and aren’t right for everyone, but the majority of beginners won’t develop glaring bodypart discrepancies if they stick to it for a while and see some basic strength and size gains before progressing to something else.

If I had a dollar everytime someone said “It’s cool, guys, I swear I’m already eating good…”, I could buy a whole bunch of McDoubles. You’re 17, correct? What’s your current height, weight, and general fat level?

Can you humor us and break down your nutrition a little better?

This is dangerously vague, so I’ll say: No, you can’t and shouldn’t add “as much isolation work as you want.” If you want to follow a well-designed program that gives attention to every bodypart, that’d be fine.

Chris_Colucci · August 30, 2014, 5:21pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Let’s say that I start with high volume and be able to recover adequately and manage to train like this and make good gains and etc. Then when the gains stop (I plateau) will the fact that I STARTED with too high volume will screw me over when I hit that plateau because from what I have read, increasing the volume is the main plateau-breaker and in my case adding more volume to already high volume will not be possible… Or I should train with the most volume I can handle despite it being pretty high and don’t worry about stuff like that ?[/quote]
This is exactly the kind of stuff that you don’t have to worry about when you follow a well-designed plan from the start.

Also, I disagree that adding more volume is “the main plateau-breaker”. That’s a blanket statement which doesn’t take into consideration the actual reasons why someone would plateau on a certain routine. There are lots of variables that can be manipulated to break through a pleateau (volume, frequency, weight, even something as simple as exercise choice).

EyeDentist · August 30, 2014, 5:27pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Or I should train with the most volume I can handle despite it being pretty high and don’t worry about stuff like that ?
[/quote]

This. You’re 17, and a beginner. It’s almost impossible for you to overtrain (assuming you eat enough; more below). Lift weights 3 (if full-body routine) or 6 (if bodypart split) days a week. Lift using whatever sort of regimen you enjoy the most–because the more you enjoy it, the harder you’ll work and the less likely you are to skip workouts. Hard, consistent work is the key.

Re eating: Here’s the only place you can screw this up. The guys you mention in the OP are very muscular and very ripped. Absent AAS (which I hope you’re not stupid enough to be contemplating at 17), you cannot put on anything like the sort of mass those guys have and get ripped at the same time, so don’t attempt to do so.

If you want a fitness-model look, I suggest you think of it as a two-year project. In Year One, you’re going to gain as much muscle as you can. This requires training REALLY hard, and eating a LOT of healthy food. You will gain some fat along the way; this is OK, and to be expected. (It doesn’t mean allowing yourself to get sloppy fat, of course.) In Year Two, you’re going to get as lean as you can. This requires training REALLY hard and eating a lot LESS (‘less’ meaning ‘reduced amount’) healthy food. The fat will melt away, revealing the fitness-model bod lurking beneath it.

If you do this, I can assure you that, by the end of Year Two, you will look a whole lot more like the guys you mentioned than you do now. Good luck.

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 6:32pm

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
If you are a beginner and your goal is to look like a fitness model (Some Jeff Seid,Zyzz aeshtetics), why would starting strength; ICF 5x5; Stronglifts be the best “proven” programs for beginners when they are strength oriented ?[/quote]
What if I told you… that some of the best bodybuilders and best physiques trained primarily for strength long before training specifically for muscle size/shape. Truth. From what I’ve read, even Seid was lifting as a wrestler and football player in high school and got more into bodybuilding after an ACL injury.

As was mentioned, there are lots of different ways there, but it’s nonsensical to think that 6 or even 12 months sticking to a mostly or all-compound lift program (when well-designed and appropriately followed with proper nutrition) won’t build a solid all-around muscular base.

Starting Strength or similar routines aren’t cure-alls and aren’t right for everyone, but the majority of beginners won’t develop glaring bodypart discrepancies if they stick to it for a while and see some basic strength and size gains before progressing to something else.

If I had a dollar everytime someone said “It’s cool, guys, I swear I’m already eating good…”, I could buy a whole bunch of McDoubles. You’re 17, correct? What’s your current height, weight, and general fat level?

Can you humor us and break down your nutrition a little better?

This is dangerously vague, so I’ll say: No, you can’t and shouldn’t add “as much isolation work as you want.” If you want to follow a well-designed program that gives attention to every bodypart, that’d be fine.[/quote]

age-17; 65-66 kilograms; 175cm height; body fat in the range of 14-17 - I have a bit of a skinny fat look because I have little or no muscle mass - that’s why I have decided to lean bulk. (read it was the most beneficial in this type of situations)

I have estimated my maintenance at 2500 calories; I will add 250 and aim for a 2 pounds increase of body weight per month to minimize fat gain

Protein - 1gr per pound of bodyweight (round it up to 150 gr cuz I love grilled chicken breasts); fats 0.45 per pound of body weight (60 gr) and rest carbs

Sources-
Protein - cottage cheese, chicken breasts, egg whites
Carbohydrates - oatmeal; white rice; vegetables - mostly tomatoes because I have access to garden tomatoes at the moment produced in my grandfather’s garden
Fats - the only saturated fats I get are from the chicken breasts and the rest of my sources are raw almonds and egg yolks.
The only problem with that diet is that every now and then I get sugar cravings- I fixed that by cutting from my carbs once or twice a week 40 grams to allow myself 50gr (2 tblsp) of honey

I told you I was serious about nutrition and everything is on point. But if you have some kind of further knowledge on making something better for me, I would be glad if you say so

jacktheman · August 30, 2014, 6:42pm

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Or I should train with the most volume I can handle despite it being pretty high and don’t worry about stuff like that ?
[/quote]

This. You’re 17, and a beginner. It’s almost impossible for you to overtrain (assuming you eat enough; more below). Lift weights 3 (if full-body routine) or 6 (if bodypart split) days a week. Lift using whatever sort of regimen you enjoy the most–because the more you enjoy it, the harder you’ll work and the less likely you are to skip workouts. Hard, consistent work is the key.

Re eating: Here’s the only place you can screw this up. The guys you mention in the OP are very muscular and very ripped. Absent AAS (which I hope you’re not stupid enough to be contemplating at 17), you cannot put on anything like the sort of mass those guys have and get ripped at the same time, so don’t attempt to do so.

If you want a fitness-model look, I suggest you think of it as a two-year project. In Year One, you’re going to gain as much muscle as you can. This requires training REALLY hard, and eating a LOT of healthy food. You will gain some fat along the way; this is OK, and to be expected. (It doesn’t mean allowing yourself to get sloppy fat, of course.) In Year Two, you’re going to get as lean as you can. This requires training REALLY hard and eating a lot LESS (‘less’ meaning ‘reduced amount’) healthy food. The fat will melt away, revealing the fitness-model bod lurking beneath it.

If you do this, I can assure you that, by the end of Year Two, you will look a whole lot more like the guys you mentioned than you do now. Good luck.[/quote]

So yeah, basically if nutrition is on point and I train really hard no matter what training I take on I will be great, I am overthinking this too much.

But I wouldn’t be so ignorant and listen to some advice.(despite that everything will yield me some great results) I see that you have understood my goal quite accurately and you were very thorough. Knowing what my specific goal is which beginners program would you tend to recommend me ? (Like SL; SS; ICF 5X5; F5; or push/pull/legs/rest/repeat-2x a week each muscle grp)

Which tends to bring out more size and looks rather than the big strength (I know that the two are connected but I just want to know if any specific one would bring me closer to my goal)

Deep gratitude.

dt79 · August 30, 2014, 7:21pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Thanks.

Let’s say that I start with high volume and be able to recover adequately and manage to train like this and make good gains and etc. Then when the gains stop (I plateau) will the fact that I STARTED with too high volume will screw me over when I hit that plateau because from what I have read, increasing the volume is the main plateau-breaker and in my case adding more volume to already high volume will not be possible… Or I should train with the most volume I can handle despite it being pretty high and don’t worry about stuff like that ?

[/quote]

Ok now you’re overthinking this.

First, if you are a beginner you WILL NOT PLATEAU unless you are not eating enough. Either that or you have techinical issues with the more complex lifts.

Second, don’t add volume just for the sake of adding volume. You need to know how your body responds from your on-going results.

Chris is right. I think it would be best that you pick a routine from here

or do 5/3/1 before you start doing your own thing.

EyeDentist · August 30, 2014, 7:38pm

[quote]jacktheman wrote: