[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
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OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.
What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”
tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles[/quote]
I disagree. If a beginner cannot grasp what it means to train HARD within the context of a BBing split, after telling him that he should chase PRs in reasonable set/rep schemes without resorting to retarded form breakdowns, then nothing will help him. Certainly not wasting time with a program like 5x5.
The reason so many beginners never properly progress on BBing splits is NOT that they use BBing splits BUT that they are taking the easy way (they are pussies who avoid putting in the hard work). In my experience, you cannot help these guys. They just don’t have the right mental attitude. Unfortunately, 90% of the people in the gyms are part of this group.[/quote]
Well, you can still try to help these guys. Thing is, the people that grasp hard training can jump into BB split and succeed, thus they don’t hop onto a forum and say “how do i train?” THe fact you are even answering the question for someone tells you a BB split won’t work right out of the gate for them. but a 5x5 routine will sure teach someone what hard training is
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5x5 doesn’t mean they train hard? How does that teach hard training? You teach yourself how to push yourself. The routine doesn’t do that [/quote]
Sure, if the 5x5 is written as a straight linear progression starting with light weights and adding weight every week, you learn hard training whether you want to or not. On stronglifts 5x5, you squat 3x/week, adding 5lbs every workout. The progression starts with an empty bar so continuous progress is possible for a while. The wporkouts become intense pretty fast.
But I’ve known plenty of people with no idea how to train that did split routines and always used light weight to get a pump, and as they adapted they just added more sets to get more pump, because no one ever told them about adding weight. Split routines are great for people that only know how to train, but to the complete beginner that only sees sets and reps they might never get it (and a lot don’t) because the routine as written won’t make you use difficult weights. 5x5 linear progression always leads to a difficult weight
