By the way, have been wanting to address a problem I have been having - my legs look a bit disproportional to my upper body ( dunno the exact reason - genetics, a lot of cardio I did in the past; maybe even my body fat is more spread on my lower body. By training legs ( I don’t want to skip them, I enjoy training them but I am afraid) can I expect them to become leaner and not to bulk up soon, because my upper body is visibly more underdeveloped than them and that look creeps me out. Thanks
[quote]jacktheman wrote:
I told you I was serious about nutrition and everything is on point.[/quote]
It looks like you’re trying to eat like a competitive bodybuilder instead of a guy who’s at the best potential muscle-building stage of his life trying to capitalize on teen lifter gains. (Note to self: Trademark ‘Teen Lifter Gains’ - TLG. Could be something there. Hmmm.)
Anyhow, don’t be so restrictive in your food choices. I’m not saying to pig out, but you should not just be rotating the same seven foods everyday. Beef is good. Potatoes are good. Fats are crucial to hormones. Tomatoes are super-healthy, but they’re not exactly a legit carb source. It’s crazy that you’re treating 2 tablespoons of honey as some kind of rare indulgence. Dude, your growing body needs carbs to fuel heavy lifting and recovery.
[quote]I have estimated my maintenance at 2500 calories; I will add 250 and aim for a 2 pounds increase of body weight per month to minimize fat gain
Protein - 1gr per pound of bodyweight (round it up to 150 gr cuz I love grilled chicken breasts); fats 0.45 per pound of body weight (60 gr) and rest carbs[/quote]
Did you actually do the math on this? At 2750 calories, you’re looking at roughly a 20/60/20 Protein/Carb/Fat ratio with almost 400g carbs daily. That’s not muscle-friendly, to say the least. I’d stress less about hitting such specific macros, bump the protein goal closer to 200g or so, and not necessarily put a cap on healthy fat intake.
If that’s the route you want to go, there are several plans are discussed here:
This is not a real issue, it’s in your head. Train everything hard and you’ll be fine. Check for disproportional legs after you’ve gained 10-15kg in bodyweight.
If you’re looking for a good P/P/L split, look in the thread dt79 posted. I think there is at least two posted in there. I used one for a long time and liked it
To answer your original question… in addition to getting form down, the main reason a lot of folks do and intensity based program is because it gets your numbers up the fastest. So, if you spend 6 months doing SS, you’ll be benching 200 x 3 x 5, you can then transition to a hypertrophy based program and do 175 x 4 x 10 (pulling these numbers out of my); whereas, if you stuck to a hypertrophy based program from the start, at the end of those same 6 months, you may only be pushing 150 x 4 x 10: moving more weight for more reps will have more results.
Intensity based programs also have some other advantages: simplicity (3 exercises/day, 3x/week, that you just get from a spreadsheet), point out gaps in nutrition/recovery quicker (if the max doesn’t go up in the next workout or two, you have a problem), speed (it’s only 3 lifts, you can get in and out in an hour), CNS training (at your age, especially if you aren’t an athlete, you may not know what it means to really push your body and I think heavy weights are simpler to drive through), and validation (seeing your max increase is motivating, body changes in a hypertrophy program come slower and are harder to detect).
Like the others said, you should do something you enjoy and will keep you consistent… but there are advantages to a short SS focus, even if you limited the duration. You could look into greyskull LP if you’re looking for more volume, it’s slower progression, though.
[quote]jacktheman wrote:
I told you I was serious about nutrition and everything is on point.[/quote]
It looks like you’re trying to eat like a competitive bodybuilder instead of a guy who’s at the best potential muscle-building stage of his life trying to capitalize on teen lifter gains. (Note to self: Trademark ‘Teen Lifter Gains’ - TLG. Could be something there. Hmmm.)
Anyhow, don’t be so restrictive in your food choices. I’m not saying to pig out, but you should not just be rotating the same seven foods everyday. Beef is good. Potatoes are good. Fats are crucial to hormones. Tomatoes are super-healthy, but they’re not exactly a legit carb source. It’s crazy that you’re treating 2 tablespoons of honey as some kind of rare indulgence. Dude, your growing body needs carbs to fuel heavy lifting and recovery.
[quote]I have estimated my maintenance at 2500 calories; I will add 250 and aim for a 2 pounds increase of body weight per month to minimize fat gain
Protein - 1gr per pound of bodyweight (round it up to 150 gr cuz I love grilled chicken breasts); fats 0.45 per pound of body weight (60 gr) and rest carbs[/quote]
Did you actually do the math on this? At 2750 calories, you’re looking at roughly a 20/60/20 Protein/Carb/Fat ratio with almost 400g carbs daily. That’s not muscle-friendly, to say the least. I’d stress less about hitting such specific macros, bump the protein goal closer to 200g or so, and not necessarily put a cap on healthy fat intake.
If that’s the route you want to go, there are several plans are discussed here:
This is not a real issue, it’s in your head. Train everything hard and you’ll be fine. Check for disproportional legs after you’ve gained 10-15kg in bodyweight.[/quote]
How’s that diet not muscle friendly? The average natural trainee doesn’t need NEAR the protein that ads and/or sup companies claim he does. Honestly, a gram per lb of bw is overkill. Eating natural, whole foods (whole eggs not whites for example), drinking plenty of water, getting rest and focusing on slowly adding weight to the bar and the scale is what this kid needs.
Sup and thanks for replying. I got mixed up in the math and I knew my diet was in check. As you can see, my diet is only of whole foods and I have NO PROBLEM keeping it that way. I like that you agree that my nutrition is in check, but what is your take on training ? I fear that programs like SS; SL; ICF; WFSB; 5/3/1 are for pure strength. Thanks
[quote]jacktheman wrote:
Sup and thanks for replying. I got mixed up in the math and I knew my diet was in check. As you can see, my diet is only of whole foods and I have NO PROBLEM keeping it that way. I like that you agree that my nutrition is in check, but what is your take on training ? I fear that programs like SS; SL; ICF; WFSB; 5/3/1 are for pure strength. Thanks[/quote]
So what if they are for pure strength? (they’re not btw, no such thing exists- look at fucking Oly lifters. Built like monsters and their training regime is designed almost entirely for strength) You’re 17 years old and pretty skinny for your weight.
Spend the next 4-5 years just letting yourself get a little fat while lifting consistently and intensely.
There is no shortcut to the look you desire. Neglecting your lower body; or anything else is never a good idea. You have at least two years (five is a better estimate IMO) of committed, consistent work ahead; regardless of the approach you choose. It is unlikely that you will average even 1 lb. of LBM per month from your training unless you have top-shelf genetics; and the individual you describe does not. Progress is something that can be measured and proven; strength programs provide a solid means to that ends and remove the guesswork from the equation.
At your point, you will have to gain a lot of strength to get bigger. Whichever program you decide to do, keep this in mind. And If you really want to do a split routine, just do it; stop asking for validation.
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Did you actually do the math on this? At 2750 calories, you’re looking at roughly a 20/60/20 Protein/Carb/Fat ratio with almost 400g carbs daily. That’s not muscle-friendly, to say the least. I’d stress less about hitting such specific macros, bump the protein goal closer to 200g or so, and not necessarily put a cap on healthy fat intake.[/quote]
How’s that diet not muscle friendly? The average natural trainee doesn’t need NEAR the protein that ads and/or sup companies claim he does. Honestly, a gram per lb of bw is overkill.[/quote]
I was referring mostly to the 20/60/20 macro breakdown. A predominantly carb-based, low fat diet won’t optimize hormone function or recovery.
The “how much protein per pound of BW” is always a debated point, but for a young kid who’s 5’9" and 145, and seems to have an instinct to overanalyze, I’d rather he focus on eating “a bunch” of protein and fat-laden meat in addition to carbs instead of being too watchful in an effort to avoid going over his daily allotment.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote: @Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]
IS do you have pics recent ones? I thought I saw some at one point. But unless you have some current in you hub maybe call outs aren’t the best.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]
serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?
Exactly what’s a sufficient level of physique development and/or strength to refute “DYEL”-type questions comes up frequently here (the recent thread about Hugh Jackman’s deadlifting 400 pounds for a couple of reps is a great example), but Colucci’s recent post about his Mantathlon is a respectable performance. I’m sure there are tons of guys playing pickup basketball in Houston who can step off the court and rep out those numbers without ever touching a weight, but most of us will have to work a little bit to bench BW for 13 reps or knock off 15 chins.
*Edited to add: since I’m sure someone will chime in about how those numbers are not that impressive, a word of clarity: of course those aren’t Earth-shattering feats of fitness that have us calling the Guinness Book of World Records. But they are indicative of a basic level of strength that probably took some work in the weight room.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]
serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?[/quote]
The sky is blue, the grass is green, and infinite_shore knows all and hates everyone.
You’ll either learn to ignore it (much like with our favorite professor) or it’ll piss you off all the time. I’d just let it go.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
@Colucci: DYEL? I mean your posts are typically perfectly fine and helpful, but is there a good reason why you look like you don’t even lift? Sick/injured? Endurance athlete?[/quote]
serious question: is there a reason why you are always such a dick?[/quote]
The sky is blue, the grass is green, and infinite_shore knows all and hates everyone.
You’ll either learn to ignore it (much like with our favorite professor) or it’ll piss you off all the time. I’d just let it go. [/quote]
It doesn’t piss me off; it’s a genuine curiosity.
I want to get to know the man behind the dickishness.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
Any program will work as long as you get stronger on the the main compound exercises, put in the required intensity/ effort and are consistent in your diet.
The reason a lot of beginners fail on split routines is because they fail to see the importance of developing strength along with size and end up still skinny fat a year later while only benching their bodyweight.
[/quote]
i remember few years ago, I was newbie. I was beginner, use 3 days split ABA (leg+chest+bicep and back+shoulder+tricep). 8-12 reps for all exercises. i didn’t even use squat, deadlift and chinup. i gained alot of muscle. strength up too but not so fast due to 8-12 reps. didn’t use strength full body. then i was lazy to continue… and 1 year later i visit forum, alot of people recommend full body strength training. i tried it and i got slower muscle gain than I used split.
so i believe any compound movements using 10rm with progressive overload and 10%-20% calories surplus will give more muscle size.
[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Exactly what’s a sufficient level of physique development and/or strength to refute “DYEL”-type questions comes up frequently here (the recent thread about Hugh Jackman’s deadlifting 400 pounds for a couple of reps is a great example), but Colucci’s recent post about his Mantathlon is a respectable performance. I’m sure there are tons of guys playing pickup basketball in Houston who can step off the court and rep out those numbers without ever touching a weight, but most of us will have to work a little bit to bench BW for 13 reps or knock off 15 chins.
*Edited to add: since I’m sure someone will chime in about how those numbers are not that impressive, a word of clarity: of course those aren’t Earth-shattering feats of fitness that have us calling the Guinness Book of World Records. But they are indicative of a basic level of strength that probably took some work in the weight room.[/quote]
I think guys like Chris, and I would hope most people on this forum, are more likely to hit legit reps on those feats. I mean personally, 15 really strict chins is challenging, but if im not really being scrutinized doing 15 passable chins is easy
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Another thread that shows that most posters on here are ignorant about basic principles.
@OP: Shit is simple: (a) Pick a standard 5 day BBing split (fuck 5x5 etc) and hit it hard, (b) eat sufficient good food.
[/quote]
OP is ignorant of basic principles as well and therein lies the problem. Anyone following a 5x5 will learn some basic principles, they’re inherent in the programs (like progressive overload, this is important). But tell someone with no training experience to just follow a 5day BB split and there is no guarantee they will learn ANY basic principles.
What if a year from now OP has made no progress because he never added weight to any exercise and just relied on “pumping”? See, anyone that understands the basic principles already knows why this happens, but in the raw beginners mind he just thinks “i’m following a BB split routine, this is supposed to be working”. Another possible scenario is something like OP bench for a few weeks with terrible form, gets messed up shoulders, continues instead with dumbbell bench in future workouts, shoulders don’t get better and eventually he switches to 3 variations of flies with dumbells and various machines instead. And this seems reasonable to him becasue the only logic guiding the workout is its “chest day”
tl;dr OP doesn’t know basic principles and BB splits don’t necessarily teach any basic principles. 5x5 programs teach some basic principles. BB splits don’t work without some foreknowledge of basic principles