I’d love to “bulk” at half pound a week, but boy that requires a lot of precision to get it right. How to keep track that it’s a good fat:muscle ratio, how many calories, etc.
I find it easier to maintain all the time with the scale and calipers to make sure I’m not kidding myself, but then to bulk or cut in fits and starts with the hopes of never gaining too much fat on the bulking or losing too much on the cutting.
It’s still a pain, but at least those cycles are the only times I need to measure my intake. The rest of the time I can just live.
I totally agree with your original post. At 32 years old, it took a double dose of Mag-10 on two separate occasions back in March to gain over 20 pounds. Since then, I have been swinging back and forth with little or no progress. It sucks, but for me the progress formula is simple: no Mag-10, no real gains.
I, too, had a long term goal of gaining a pound or two of muscle per month without Mag-10, but had an "epipheny" of sorts when I saw a Bill Roberts post that discussed genetic potential. I have come to accept the fact that "genetics" are the true barrier to gains, and unfortunately we can't change them.
That said, my life is easier now. I still eat well and train hard, but I've come to accept the fact that the way I look now (sans a few pounds of extra body fat) may be as good as it's going to get. To obsess over it at this point would only frustrate me.
I've now adjusted my long term goal as follows: I will keep my protein intake up (as always), train hard (as always), add a double Mag-10 dose every 6 to 8 weeks, then hope for the best.
I’m with Zev on this one, but its taken me long enough to figure it out. which is why I’m a big fan of Berardi’s massive eating and don’t diet. I’m through with rapid bulking cycles and extreme, egg- whites and fish- oil diets which promise the world, but don’t deliver. I’ll be keeping Berardi’s formula where he links BF% and the ratio of lean mass to fat mass gains in mind from now on, and be staying between 7- 12% BF. good luck folks.
haven’t posted in a while guys (work commitments -damn not being a student anymore). To answer your question my long term goal is to get to 15 stone/94 kilos (210lbs) @15% by next february (currently 200 @ 16-17%) and accomplish this by doing six weeks bulking/ two weeks cutting. Once I am at this point I am going to go full tilt cutting for my first show of the year (Mr wales show as a qualifer to the Natural Great britain)showing up at under 75kg @ 5-6% (around 168 -170lbs) standing at five foot six. If I qualify I will just do little cycles working on week points until october (the Great Britain) and if not I will just get leaner and qualify at a different show. Steve as for there being to many variables to plan long term you are right about the finer points but you still need a long term goal or your short goals will amount to jack all! Any way guys I dont know when I can post again so good luck with whatever your goals are.
Sorry to jump in on this post but just wanted to add that by devising a long-term plan your gains will be significantly better. Within Renegade Training - every program is designed over a minimum of 4 years. Good luck with your training. In faith, Coach Davies
I think the problem as it related to bodybuilding is that most people already do exactly what you’re proposing- staying basically the same bodyweight and looking basically the same and lifting the same amount of weight year after year. After the 1st year or so those 1 lb of muscle per month gains don’t come at all and that fat that was lost without dieting doesn’t budge at all…so there is a point where the only way to progress is through more drastic methods.
Coach, I would be interested to hear your rationale on why long-term plans will reap better gains. In my experience it always seems like there are too many variables that could change to plan too far in advance. I am always interested in your valuable advice.
No Mag-10, no gains? I’m suprised to hear you say that. You have demonstrated quite clearly on this forum that you are very informed when it comes to training, diet, and supplementation, so I think that you are selling yourself short. I find it hard to believe that you have exhausted all of your options when it comes to manipulating diet and training within a microcycle or macrocycle (I assume you periodize your training). Have you tried EDT, Training with Maximal Weights, all of Ian King’s program, the Winning Formula, etc., etc., etc.? If you think you’ve tried everything, make something up! It’s all about shocking your system, and you might be the only one who knows how to do that best.
Personally, the day that I say that I can’t do something on my own is the day that I give all this up altogether. Do I ever see this happening? Hell no! I love to train. I love to try new things. I love the prospect of giving something a go even if I doubt it’ll be successful. You have to challenge yourself, and the second you fall into the “I can’t” trap is the second that you become just another guy who “works out.” Set some goals, kick some ass, and achieve them. You’re too intelligent no to.
Char-dawg’s post really got me thinking. I rarely have a maintenance/adjustment stage in my training where I reset my behavior after significant muscle gain or fat loss. While, I don’t necessarily think that we “reset” our body fat set-point physiologically, I think we “reset” our body fat set-point psychologically. If we make a change to our body, we must adjust our diet and training to maintain that change. Constant whiplash training programs (bulk/cut/bulk/cut) don’t allow for this behavior change.
With that being said, I have a very interesting plan laid out for the future where a steady path is laid out with calculated shocks thrown into it (much like Char has mentioned).
Regarding this, I think that long term planning in great, specific detail is quite difficult to do (especially with excellent new info showing up on our computer screen every Friday). But I think that the general path can be laid out for year's in advance.
I liken my future training journey to driving across the country. There are times when there are 10 different roads (each varying degrees of difficulty) that will get me from one city to another. But there are times when only one road will take me to the next point. There is room for endless variation even if the goal is the same. But the concept of getting from the Pacific to the Atlantic remains very much intact.
Mike Friedman - yes, MAG-10 is great, but it can't be the only way we make progress. It may seem that way in the short term, but cannot be the only long-term solution.
Steve Coppola - I hope I made myself clear in my cross-country analogy. You are correct that detailed planning may be in vain, but a general concept map can easily be employed.
Wow, this has been some great stuff. Very mixed views and quite interesting. I'd love to hear more thought on the idea of planning for the long term.
If my post made it sound like I "threw in the towel", I apologize. Nothing could be further from the truth. However, after experiencing the marvel that is Mag-10 back in March, my training since then has felt a little like running in place.
Also, in order to continue to ENJOY the whole bodybuilding lifestyle, I really felt I had to "make peace" with my genetics. I have more of a stocky, powerlifter type build. I could do Meltdown training and diet and do cardio 'till I'm blue in the face and it won't make me ripped...I'm just not built that way...but I'm ok with it now. My genetic gift is that I'm very strong, so I focus on playing those cards when I hit the gym.
As far as my current training, I'm using the HST program...and I love it. I'm making great strength gains. However, I have no new mass to show for it...yet...but if I continue to get stronger (as is my main goal right now) the size will come, albeit more slowly and less dramatically without a Mag-10 cycle every two weeks.
The bottom line is that I live the T-Man lifestyle because...well..it's FUN! I see way too many people on this forum who obsess over bodybuilding to the point that it just doesn't seem fun for them to live the lifestyle.
Unfortunately, I found that my trips to the gym were becoming more and more of a chore, and less and less of something I "treat" myself to after a hard day. I have since changed my mental attitude towards the whole process, and find myself happier for having done so.
I hope this changes your perspective on my original post!
Thank you for expanding on your original post. I too have come to respect your opinion and your original post kinda threw a curveball at me. But things make sense now.
I have to agree. The day that training becomes a chore and I no longer have any fun at the gym is the day I stop. Sure there are times when training is tougher mentally than others, but it is always enjoyable to some extent for me.
Jason, I like the analogy, and totally hear where you are coming from as far as having a general plan. I know where I am “trucking to” as well, which is very important. I was definitely talking about overly-detailed (is that a word?) planning that happens too far in advance in my other posts (i.e., it is now August…I will specialize traps in Jan-Feb using this plan with this diet, and then for March I will use this routine with a low carb diet, etc…).
Glad to hear that you’re still on track and enjoying what you’re doing, buddy! It just sounded like you were selling yourself short, and you’re the last person who should do that. Keep up the good work!
I’m six one. In September of 2000, I was 174. In July of 2001, about 210. October of that same year, 181. March of this year, 218. This afternoon, 181.
And here’s my epiphany: I’m addicted to change. It isn’t so much what the calipers or scale are saying – it’s that they have to say something different from two days ago, or I’m doing something wrong.
Even as I type this, I am planning my next bulk, during which time I have no doubt that, all things being equal, I will, with MAG-10 and increased calories, shoot right back up to 210.
All of us sing in unison that we shouldn’t weigh ourselves with the scale. Here’s an idea – let’s stop weighing ourselves with the calendar too.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this body comp tossing and turning is some latent expression of not really knowing just who or what I want to look like. And the whole dynamic finds its camouflage in the generally accurate statement that gaining incurs some fat increase and cutting, some lean decrease. That’s my pretext. But the deeper issue is, what’s the overall goal? The finish line? The ultimate aim?
And now it gets really muddled, because physique improvement never really ends. The very concept of a finish line militates against our mindsets as lifters. Some astute poster on Brock’s recent thread on the steroid forum pointed out that, though Brock is celebrating his new look and its rewards at #173, sooner or later, he’s going to want to change something about his look. And we all chuckle when we read, “If I can just hit 200 at 6%, I’ll be happy.” Yeah, right.
I do not have an answer to this. But I do hope I can at least limit the distance the pendulum swings from now on.
I understand what your saying. I go on a bulking cycle and get some great gains but put some size on the ole waist line too. Now it’s time to cut, but my arms also feel like their shrinking. I guess that unless you’re on roids, you can’t have the best of both worlds.
One thing that does keep me going is the mental benefits of weight lifting. Three areas really. It provides me with a lot of self confidence. Helps me cope with stress, mainly my wife and kids. Lastly, it curves that need for athletic competition that I use to get back in highschool and college that you can’t really get as an adult with a job, wife, and kids. Golf is there is your good but I suck at it and it tends to be more frustrating than its worth. Stick with it.
Sorry for arriving to this thread so late. But we’ve been out of town…Okay let me add my two-three cents worth to this discussion.
When I began weight training way back in 1983 - it was all definitely short term goals. "How will I look in three months...next year..." etc. Because being so new to it all - that was ALL I could think of. It was ALL I knew. It was HOW I could absorb all the info I was gathering: in short term waves. If you get my drift. As the years rolled by as I continued on, I too became concerned about the time when it would "become a chore" and "boring" which would lead to me quitting training. But I soon discovered that I could easily get involved with other sports and use weight training to improve my performance there. So that eliminated that fear.
With that being said, I see it this way. When you're just begining, yeah, you're going to look only at the short term aspects. It's only natural. Like seeing it as a way of dropping the last 10-pounds or adding some muscular weight. But as you grow and mature and continue on, the long term aspects become more prevalent. NOW what's important to me is how my training works with my life. How it affects my lifestyle. Improves the quality of my life. THAT's what is important (to me). Training is such a important aspect of ME that I won't stop now. And neither has it gotten boring. Quite the opposite, it's more interesting than ever. Your questions are valid, Jason. But as you get older, you'll see a whole new side of it. Which will make you want to continue on.