[quote]hedo wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
.
Troll.
[/quote]
Agreed
[quote]indra wrote:
Here in london now, the people here have been amazing, people really pull together in times like these, it reminds us we are all truely the same.
As for the cowards who did this, what can be said except london has had it coming. London is known as londonistan by foreign security services because of the sheer number of islamic terrorists here and the slackness of the uk security services concerning them. Every major islamic terrorist organisation has a mouthpiece and supporters in london from al quaida, muslim brotherhood, jemmaah islamia etc. It is time the uk woke up to the threat and started taking action.
Unlike the usa i hope we strike at the countries responsible, saudi arabia and pakistan. Every muslim terrorist bombing has been financed by saudi arabia and planned in pakistan. These are the countries that need to be ATTACKED NOW. [/quote]
Good luck attacking Pakistan.
[quote]orion wrote:
jayhawk1 wrote:
Zap, look at your anger for these bombings in London which otherwise don’t affect your day to day life. You will still go to work today come home talk to your kids and wife and eat a nice dinner.
I would bet this is a similar scenario for 9/11 understandably anger producing, but not affecting your day to day life significantly.
Now put yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi or Afghani who would otherwise not give two shits about America how they feel after a 500 pound bomb drops on the block or village they live in wiping out every single member of their family children, wife, mother, father!
Imagine if you were a Palestinian who at one time in his life was rounded up by Israeli intelligence and tortured or had family killed.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. The overwhelming majority of these international terrorists didn’t have their families killed by a 500 pound American bomb. Most of them come from countries outside Iraq and Afghanistan. Their lives were as “unaffected” by American hostilities as any American’s was by the London bombings.
jayhawk, how do you know that? And if someone actually had members of his family killed by a bomb that fell out of an american airplane would he have the right to be angry?
Would he be justified to try to retaliate? And if he has no planes to drop bombs out of, is it justified to deliver them any way he can?
[/quote]
How do I know what? It is common knowledge that the majority of INTERNATIONAL terrorists are not from Iraq or Afghanistan. Therefore I am confident in saying the majority of them have not lost family members to American military operations, unless those family members were operating in either Iraq or Afghanistan. So I contend they were no more tangibly “affected” by events there than Americans are to events in London.
Regarding your other questions, of course folks who lose their families to American action have a right to be angry. And sure he would be justified in trying to retaliate against American forces. But he would not be justified in killing civilan non-combatants, either in Iraq or Israel or London.
In regard to the fool who suggests USA should attack all muslim countries including Pakistan.
Pakistan not only has nukes(and a lot of em) they also have inter continental missiles(which basically means your air craft carriers are a floating duck). It is also very possible that their outrage mixed where their urge to retalliate might mean they will nuke Israel (Pakistan’s missles cant reach USA right??) off the face of this planet.
Also Pakistan is a nieghbour to China. And we have seen how much China appreciates US presence anywhere near them.
Attacking Pakistan is no easy task. America has the better army and will win the war fairly quickly in my opinion, but the consequences and damages done before it is settled, will be unlike anything ever before.
[quote]samsmarts wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
nabz wrote:
A bunch of stuff from the Koran.
The good words in the Koran are outweighed by the actions of these murderers on a day like today.
True Muslims have to unite and kick these people out. I do not see enough of this happening.
There are not enough Muslim voices against the terrorism. Muslims danced in the street after 9/11. Where was the outcry against these actions?
Your quotations were hollow words in the light of these actions. You should be making strong condemnations against those hijacking the Islam faith.
Hate is being preached in mosques and schools. Direct your energy to stopping that.
I dont agree with a few of your points. But your point on muslim countries not doing enough is the best point anyone made in the whole thread. No muslim country helped in the afghanistan situation besides its direct neighbour pakistan to some extend. But the sources of funds isnt pakistan. The terrorist are funded by very wealthy people and parties, Pakistan as such is a poor country compared to Saudia, UAE, Kuwait etc. Why didnt those countries freeze the accounts of the people funding terrorists? Why didn’t they arrest anyone?[/quote]
The UAE did actually freeze accounts http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarticle.asp?section=theuae&xfile=data/theuae/2005/march/theuae_march187.xml
[quote]bikejames wrote:
I noticed that no one answered the questioned posed several posts ago - “Why are there no million muslim marches condemning the terrorosts.” I’ve often wondered that. If some wacko Christian group was doing the crap the Al-Quacko terrorists are doing there would be no end to the marches, religious leaders and the like condeming their actions. We get nothing from the Muslims.
With so many Muslim’s on this planet surely someone on this board must be one, so why can’t they let us know why the masses and their religious leaders are silent. Hell, we saw far more activity out of Muslims celebrating the WTC attacks than we’ve seen condeming any of the terrorist actions.
And to whoever tried to tell us that Islam has not been spread by the sword - read a history book. You know that thing called The Crusades? You probably think that was instigated by the Christians against the poor Muslims, huh? Wrong…the Muslims came to the Holy Lands and took them over by force, driving the non-Muslims out and purposefully constructing several Mosques over the old temple grounds and other Jewish holy sights. The Crusades were an attempt by Europe to reclaim the Holy Lands. And you do know that the Muslim invaders at one time had pushed as far north as France before being driven back down to the Middle East, right? No, your liberal history teacher never taught you that?
And more recently we should all remeber how respectfully the Taliban treated the ancient Budha statues in Afganistan. Oh that’s right, they were so respectful of other’s religious beliefs they blew them up.
This is a bunch of crap…this is like trying to differentiate between whether we were fighting Germany or the Nazi’s in WWII. Just like that scenario the Nazi’s were a small portion of the whole nation but unfortunately they were the shepard leading the herd, and we all know that in every group/ nation the vast majority of people are sheep following the herd. Only by recognizing that you have to replace the shepard can you win.
Unfortunately that would require super aggressive action that we don’t have the stomach for. Remove the Saudi leaders funding this crap through Mosques, remove the leaders of any nation that supports these radicals, publically call out Al-Jazeera on their support of radical propoganda, bomb the living crap out of the Suni Triangle and basically let these guys know we mean business. Stop worrying about what the “Muslim’s on the street” think about us, they need to worry what we think about them.
Anyways, this is way longer than I planned, I just get so sick of hearing any excuses for this crap. There are none, and Muslims need to start doing a better job speaking up to condemn this crap or policing themselves to prevent it in the first place. But, just like WWII, by the time we figure out that ain’t gonna happen and that we have to get more ruthless than the oposition it may be too late. [/quote]
Personally I think it is sad that CNN dominates the USA television when it comes to boradcast!. in NZ we got the news from them first, they speculated the number of bombs, dead, and even who did it well before any one there knew for sure. 4 bombs in total 3 trains 1 bus. The IRA (who aren’t Muslim) have done worse.
To say that it is al qaeda, without knowing is ignorant,
to blame muslims in general is racist and biggetry
To say that they are operating out of a single country is stupid, as this would mean they are operating now out of Iraq, Afganistan, Sri Lanka, Iran. is there any i missed. I hope that the members of this board are willing to open their minds and see that terrorists have no single country.
May I suggest that people watch the BBC to get the news, they are level headed, calm and do not lead stories to speculation. Otherwise the USA will continue invading countries that “harbour terrorists” oddly enough also all have large oil reserves.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I do not condemn Islam because I do not know enough about it. I do know hate is being spead in the name of Islam and it is wrong.
America needs to put more pressure on dictatorships that push Muslim extremism as a way to control their people (Saudi Arabia).
When we support these dictators we support Muslim extremism.
[/quote]
one of the ideals of a true democracy is to allow freedom of speech and beliefs. what does it say when one country imposes its beliefs onto another?
Well as a red blooded American I must say that America ought to look out for herself, and her citizens. America should guard it’s true land and borders, in general, look out for number one and to hell with the rest of the world.
Screw the mid-east; let them kill each other out or let them fight like animals until they tire (is that possible, seems not) and the same for any other nation in this crazy world.
America needs to secure it’s borders and ensure that our people are truly safe and free within our mighty nation, from sea to sea, north to south. Free to enjoy our society and deal with our problems. We need to clean up our own back yard before we should try cleaning up the world.
If then by chance some uninvited trouble comes our way from some crazy outside source, such as these terrorist groups (rergardless of any relious affiliation or not)then we will be righteous in our responses and we should consider any nation that harbors these terrorists as a direct threat to our future as a nation and respond accordingly. Atomic bombs work rather well. If a terrorist action arises from our own citizenship, we should investigate, determine responsibility through our court system and immediately institute a mandatory death penality.
It is high time we focus on our nation, it’s strengths, it’s weaknesses and it’s future potential and quit messing in nations that really are not worth one tiny drop of American blood.
In addition, we should make every concerted effort to unite all religions active in America with the focus on maintaining familial and social coherence and to ignore the disfunctionality of religions in other nations.
America needs to be it’s own ally.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
nabz, I have no hate for you or for peaceful Muslims. I truly do not understand how you could believe that.
I have tried to make it very clear that I understand that while these murderers do their work under the guise of Islam, not all Muslims support it. For the last 25 years of my life of have seen Muslims around the world march through the streets and chant “Death to America”. In order to fix the problems this has to stop.
I wish we would hear more about things such as the meeting you described. It seems they are aware of the problems with factions in Islam and are trying to do something about it. I wish them all the luck in the world.
It is very frustrating not to see more signs of peace from the Islamic world.
What truly pisses me off are these nutjob asshole conspiracy fools that blame our governments for the terrorist attacks against us.
The Islamic extremists are the enemy. The way to end this war is to stop them, not shift blame.[/quote]
You need to wake up brother. You and others think it’s a wacko conspiracy to blame the government but it’s time you look long and hard about what’s really going on and demand some answers yourself.
You don’t ever stop to think about who always, ALWAYS benefits from a terrorist attack. Everytime there is an attack we lose more of our freedoms and the government grabs more power - YOU DON’T SEE THAT? If the terrorists goal is to scare us and change our way of life then they have ALREADY WON.
You guys are literally calling for the genicide of Muslims. Oh, I know, you mean just the “terrorist” Muslims - the one’s that don’t wear uniforms and blend in with the population. You really don’t know who’s a terrorist until they blow something or themselves and innocent people up - so how do you stop that? Everyone is proven guilty before innocent - Muslims… for now.
You think it’s a ridiculous conspiracy theory to blame the government yet do you know how many CONVICTIONS have been made in connection to 9/11? - ZERO, A BIG FAT ZERO. Did you get that? ZERO! Z-E-R-O. Do you not see WHY there is doubt about 9/11?
How about this:
In an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco, FBI director Robert Mueller said that the purported hijackers, in his words, ‘left no paper trial.’ The FBI director stated flatly:
“In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper-either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere-that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot.”
http://tinyurl.com/2p8f
Remember our #1 suspect?
FBI: Moussaoui not involved
19/10/2003
Washington - The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has concluded that Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in America in connection with the September 11 attacks, was not involved in the strikes, Time magazine reported on Sunday.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1432629,00.html
Feds Ask To Toss Moussaoui Case
Sept. 25, 2003
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/14/attack/main553794.shtml
Amazing - does that not at least make you go hmmm? No it’s just crazy talk right? Of course the status is always changing - one day he’s guilty the next day he’s not. Why hasn’t he stood trial yet? Rock solid case, huh?
We are in a fuckin’ war in Iraq with almost 2000 American soldiers dead - fighting an IDEOLOGY, an INVISIBLE ENEMY! EVERYTHING you think you know about Muslims has been fed to you through the news by who?
-NOT ONE SINGLE CONVICTION IN CONNECTION TO 9/11.
-WE HAVE NOT CAUGHT BIN LADEN.
-THERE WERE NO WMD’s IN IRAQ.
-THERE WERE FOUR SIMULTANTEOUS WARGAMES BEING RUN ON 9/11 INVOLVING CRASHING HIJACKED JETS INTO BUILDINGS. (just a coinkydink)
Hijack ‘suspects’ alive and well
23 September, 2001
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.
This is not conspiracy theory - these are COLD HARD FACTS.
Profiting From Disaster?
Sept. 19, 2001
(CBS) Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market.
An extraordinary number of trades were betting that American Airlines stock price would fall.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/19/eveningnews/main311834.shtml
Nothing to be concerned about, the Feds investigated and concluded the investors WEREN’T al-Qaeda…
As for the OKC bombing:
Benton K. Partin, Brigadier Gen. USAF (Ret.) to Sen. Trent Lott
Dear Sen. Lott:
The attached report contains conclusive proof that the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was not caused solely by the truck bomb. Evidence shows that the massive destruction was primarily the result of four demolition charges placed at critical structural points at the third floor level.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/PARTIN/ok8.htm
Conspiracy theory? Listen closely with your own fuckin’ ears.
[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Well as a red blooded American I must say that America ought to look out for herself, and her citizens. America should guard it’s true land and borders, in general, look out for number one and to hell with the rest of the world.
Screw the mid-east; let them kill each other out or let them fight like animals until they tire (is that possible, seems not) and the same for any other nation in this crazy world.
America needs to secure it’s borders and ensure that our people are truly safe and free within our mighty nation, from sea to sea, north to south. Free to enjoy our society and deal with our problems. We need to clean up our own back yard before we should try cleaning up the world.
If then by chance some uninvited trouble comes our way from some crazy outside source, such as these terrorist groups (rergardless of any relious affiliation or not)then we will be righteous in our responses and we should consider any nation that harbors these terrorists as a direct threat to our future as a nation and respond accordingly. Atomic bombs work rather well. If a terrorist action arises from our own citizenship, we should investigate, determine responsibility through our court system and immediately institute a mandatory death penality.
It is high time we focus on our nation, it’s strengths, it’s weaknesses and it’s future potential and quit messing in nations that really are not worth one tiny drop of American blood.
In addition, we should make every concerted effort to unite all religions active in America with the focus on maintaining familial and social coherence and to ignore the disfunctionality of religions in other nations.
America needs to be it’s own ally. [/quote]
Finally! What could be a better strategy than unrestrained atomic warfare? That’s exactly what we need to do! Seal our borders and start using nuclear weapons against anyone who “harbors” (to be determined by “intelligence professionals,” of course!) terrorists or oil reserves!
Fallout: what a fantastic solution to the world’s problems!
[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Well as a red blooded American I must say that America ought to look out for herself, and her citizens. America should guard it’s true land and borders, in general, look out for number one and to hell with the rest of the world.
Screw the mid-east; let them kill each other out or let them fight like animals until they tire (is that possible, seems not) and the same for any other nation in this crazy world.
America needs to secure it’s borders and ensure that our people are truly safe and free within our mighty nation, from sea to sea, north to south. Free to enjoy our society and deal with our problems. We need to clean up our own back yard before we should try cleaning up the world.
If then by chance some uninvited trouble comes our way from some crazy outside source, such as these terrorist groups (rergardless of any relious affiliation or not)then we will be righteous in our responses and we should consider any nation that harbors these terrorists as a direct threat to our future as a nation and respond accordingly. Atomic bombs work rather well. If a terrorist action arises from our own citizenship, we should investigate, determine responsibility through our court system and immediately institute a mandatory death penality.
It is high time we focus on our nation, it’s strengths, it’s weaknesses and it’s future potential and quit messing in nations that really are not worth one tiny drop of American blood.
In addition, we should make every concerted effort to unite all religions active in America with the focus on maintaining familial and social coherence and to ignore the disfunctionality of religions in other nations.
America needs to be it’s own ally. [/quote]
It’s funny that if you replace the word America with anyother countries. it would be fanatisism. calling anyone countries ideals as “Righteous” gives the impression that God is on your side. Hang on! that is what some crazy guy called “Osama” said too.
Can you see the link here???
Well, perhaps this is the only solution at this point. I know what I see in current world events. Each and every nation, including America, should mind it’s own business and stop meddling in other nations.
Perhaps if nuclear fallout were a certainty, nations and outside self-interests groups would think twice and maybe three times (including our own mighty nation) before violating others. Fanatic outlook or realistic outlook…to me it’s realistic cause I don’t kid myself.
Often times, we (as individuals and as nations) bring on and invite our own troubles.
The road to peace is paved with the respect to others rights. In a nutshell, “you don’t mess with me and I will not mess with you” and this should make sense in any language.
NZ doesn’t seem very enlightened these days.
Subsitute Osama for Choudhary…do you see the link?
Prime Minister Helen Clark will seek clarification from Labour Muslim MP Ashraf Choudhary after he refused in a television interview to condemn the stoning to death of homosexuals and people who had extra-marital affairs.
In a 60 Minutes programme on TV3 last night examining Islamic fundamentalism in New Zealand, Dr Choudhary was asked: ?Are you saying the Koran is wrong to recommend that gays in certain circumstances be stoned to death??
He replied: ?No, no. Certainly what the Koran says is correct.?
He then partially qualified the statement.
?In those societies, not here in New Zealand,? he said.
Miss Clark said she would seek clarification of the comments from Dr Choudhary.
[quote]frogie2001 wrote:
masterblaster wrote:
Well as a red blooded American I must say that America ought to look out for herself, and her citizens. America should guard it’s true land and borders, in general, look out for number one and to hell with the rest of the world.
Screw the mid-east; let them kill each other out or let them fight like animals until they tire (is that possible, seems not) and the same for any other nation in this crazy world.
America needs to secure it’s borders and ensure that our people are truly safe and free within our mighty nation, from sea to sea, north to south. Free to enjoy our society and deal with our problems. We need to clean up our own back yard before we should try cleaning up the world.
If then by chance some uninvited trouble comes our way from some crazy outside source, such as these terrorist groups (rergardless of any relious affiliation or not)then we will be righteous in our responses and we should consider any nation that harbors these terrorists as a direct threat to our future as a nation and respond accordingly. Atomic bombs work rather well. If a terrorist action arises from our own citizenship, we should investigate, determine responsibility through our court system and immediately institute a mandatory death penality.
It is high time we focus on our nation, it’s strengths, it’s weaknesses and it’s future potential and quit messing in nations that really are not worth one tiny drop of American blood.
In addition, we should make every concerted effort to unite all religions active in America with the focus on maintaining familial and social coherence and to ignore the disfunctionality of religions in other nations.
America needs to be it’s own ally.
It’s funny that if you replace the word America with anyother countries. it would be fanatisism. calling anyone countries ideals as “Righteous” gives the impression that God is on your side. Hang on! that is what some crazy guy called “Osama” said too.
Can you see the link here???
[/quote]
[quote]frogie2001 wrote:
May I suggest that people watch the BBC to get the news, they are level headed, calm and do not lead stories to speculation. Otherwise the USA will continue invading countries that “harbour terrorists” oddly enough also all have large oil reserves.
[/quote]
While I won’t plug any broadcast news agency I agree that far too many people get their news from CNN and or major broadcast stations in the US (otherwise know as the Viagra news hour). BBC is not free of bias either. I would just suggest getting as many different points of view as possible so that you always have a clear frame of reference–and then question it!
Is anyone else as pissed off as I am at the attacks in London? I’m sure idiots in England will blame their govt. for aiding the US the way idiots here blame the govt for 9-11 for helping Israel. What I do not understand is why doesn’t someone privatize anti-terrorism I mean when you look at the way the market nose dives when something like this happens. Why don’t the rich and famous put some money up to track down the mother fuckers in this country that are dedicated to our destruction instead of tossing million at tsuanmi victims that are high recruiting points for Al Queda. This problem is too big for the govt. and need coporate help.
woooo! Thank God for that Iraq war! It is really securing the peace for us, I tell you! Thank God our glorious leader has told us that we are winning that war, because I don’t know what the hell we would do if Saddam was in power. If Saddam was in power, I bet it would have been fifty explosions in London, four in New York, and one in Uzbekistan, because God knows he was funding them. Hell, I bet that it would have been dirty bombs, just because that bastard would love to have given it to Al-Queda. Good God, thank Christ for that Iraq war, or else I wouldn’t feel so incredibly safe.
Man, don’t you guys feel safer now? Zig Heil, Fuhrer Bush!!
When you give up Liberty for safety, you get neither. Today proved it. Dont think it couldnt happen in New York, Patriot Act and all.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
You need to wake up brother. You and others think it’s a wacko conspiracy to blame the government but it’s time you look long and hard about what’s really going on and demand some answers yourself.
You don’t ever stop to think about who always, ALWAYS benefits from a terrorist attack. Everytime there is an attack we lose more of our freedoms and the government grabs more power - YOU DON’T SEE THAT?
[/quote]
Shit I guess the British government is following suit and attacking it’s own country as well! Let’s overthrow both governments and create a healthy state of anarchy, that’s definitely the wisest and safest solution.
simple as this…The middle east is the only region in the world wehre if anyone just decided to flatten that sand pit and make it a parking lot, there would be a whole fuck load less problems in the world, probobly cut to about 50%.
Now, on the other had, i do know some islamic and muslim people who are nice and i like them, so that is a sad statement to have to make, but if we are talking objectively and not personally at all, my first statement is very true and its a shame…idiots have been fighting over a piece of sand for 1000 years, no need at all. It is also very unfortuante that we as americans or brits are tought to be fairly open minded and not be totally discrimitory and hate people who we dont even know, this is what we are “taught”, i dont mean that is what is learned.
But on the other hand, a lot of these middle eastern kids are taught to hate americans like we are acutally devil incarnates and are worse than the worst arab on the whole. So these little inocent children are taught and drilled into thier heads to absolutly hate us with the utmost disgust which is a huge problem. I dont know, thats just my 2 cents.
Hell, in reality it could be the IRA as easily as the Muslims.