LIMITS

Training
1081

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
His friend walks around like this, only two inches taller. [/quote]

I find it hilarious that all you do is post pictures without posting any sound arguments or refutations to mine. I’ve called you on you shite and you apologised, but AGAIN conveniently ignored answering my points. And apparently I’m trolling! Fuck me I just saw a unicorn.

R

[/quote]

his pictures do refute your points. That’s the reason he’s posting them.

He’s posting what guys with the stats your imaginary BFF look like.[/quote]

He has the X like ability to completely ignore this obvious post, that totally destroys any possible argument that he is making.

Here it comes.[/quote]

I’m not ignoring it at all. Pictures prove nothing. They do not take into account bone density and skeletal weight, particular build etc. Bodybuilding is about more than just scale weight.

Arthur saxon was 5 10 at 220.

take a good look
[/quote]

Now heres flex wheeler at a competitve weight of 220 i believe. an inch shorter but thats close enough right. Quite a difference?

Chemicals and overall build make a HUGE difference to how someone looks at a given weight. Off season he is 265, and doesnt get too fat i think. So with diuretics he is squeezing a fuckload more muscle into that weight. Pictures prove a point?
[/quote]
You know what makes the difference I that pic. Sure structure and insertions. It’s body fat. First one the guy is high teens. Flex is 4.5-5. That is the point if pictures. To show what someone at a weight height and bf will look. Obviously some difference for structure but its not gonna be a massive difference [/quote]

The point is that flex without contest drugs is 45! Pounds heavier, but somehow is fair game for comparison to a natty at an unassisted weight of 225. The fact they are the same weight but flex is seriously dehydrated is apparently lost on people here.
[/quote]

Flex competing in the 212 class.
[/quote]

You really just do the same thing over and over. Flex is 265 off season. Please explain how that is a fair comparison. I guess you are guilty of the exact same thing you accuse prof x of. The irony is painful.

1082

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Kevin English, 5’7", looking rather Palumboesque and competing in 212 or 202 class. [/quote]

280 pounds offseason weight? You do realise you are just proving my point further here.

1083

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Kevin English, 5’7", looking rather Palumboesque and competing in 212 or 202 class. [/quote]

280 pounds offseason weight? You do realise you are just proving my point further here.
[/quote]

So your friend has like, 40 pounds of water to lose to be in contest condition from 6% bodyfat? I mean that still puts him at 185 on stage at 5’6 which would be pretty fucking disgusting, especially considering he kind of hates bodybuilding and just ‘sort of eats protein and salads and whatnot.’

I also find it amazing that despite this diet that would keep a person pretty low as far as water retention goes, that he is apparently holding ridiculous amounts of water.

How do you get internet under a bridge?

1084

[quote]red04 wrote:
So your friend has like, 40 pounds of water to lose to be in contest condition from 6% bodyfat?

I also find it amazing that despite this diet that would keep a person pretty low as far as water retention goes, that he is apparently holding ridiculous amounts of water.
[/quote]

I’ve always been of the school thinking that natties don’t really hold water. As Layne once put it; “You weren’t holding water, you were just fatter than you thought.” As such, should someone claim that they don’t appear as lean as they truly are because of such retention, they are either:
-Not as lean as they imagine or state to being (whether intentional or not)
-Actually using PEDs which can promote such retention, but don’t acknowledge it
(I’m no expert on PEDs, so take it as a generalized statement)

S

1085

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Kevin English, 5’7", looking rather Palumboesque and competing in 212 or 202 class. [/quote]

280 pounds offseason weight? You do realise you are just proving my point further here.
[/quote]

So your friend has like, 40 pounds of water to lose to be in contest condition from 6% bodyfat? I mean that still puts him at 185 on stage at 5’6 which would be pretty fucking disgusting, especially considering he kind of hates bodybuilding and just ‘sort of eats protein and salads and whatnot.’

I also find it amazing that despite this diet that would keep a person pretty low as far as water retention goes, that he is apparently holding ridiculous amounts of water.

How do you get internet under a bridge?[/quote]

40 lbs no. The point I’m making is that ANYONE can drop 15% of their bodyweight with diuretics and the host of other tricks used to drop water.

As with most weight class based sports if you can squeeze into a lower class whilst actually carrying way more muscle then you are at a massive advantage. Thats why people go to such drastic lengths to make weight categories.

People on here seem to be quoting the best of the best bodybuilders competition weights like that’s their “normal” weight and status.

If you deplete water, your bodyfat levels do not change at all. Does anyone here actually think LBM changes as well when people deplete water? It just ain’t that fucking simple. Its a manipulation.

I’ll repeat my point for clarity again with some examples.

Flex wheeler

Off season he walks around at apprx 270-280. Lets say he is 12% bf off season max which based on how he looks most of the time i think is a fair judgement. That gives the following…

247lb of LBM, 33lbs of bodyfat.

When he diets down to 6% bodyfat, he loses 15lbs of fat. He obv uses anabolics so will not lose muscle.

That takes him to 247lb of LBM, and aprx 15lbs of bodyfat. Now how does he weigh in at 225? Does he lose muscle? Fuck no, you want to keep all that muscle and just squeeze it down so it looks nice and dry and dense and freaking awesome on stage, so what you do is drink a ton of deionised water, then cut your water intake and hop on the lasix. Not quite there yet? Hop in the sauna. You can lose up to 15% of water before you risk death, and tolerance varies from person to person.

15% removed from 247 lb + 15 lb equals 223lbs. Is this any coincidence? He’s at the maximum level of development which he can squeeze into his weight class.

Now some retards on here think they can compared him to someone who with no drugs at all is walking around at 225. If he dehydrated and used diuretics he could hit a stage at 191 MAX since he may weight less in the morning.

Is it really that hard to believe?

I think because people haven’t achieved such things themselves they have to shit on other peoples achievements. Purely because they don’t appreciate that there could be other people out there way fucking more dedicated, better educated and disciplined and humble enough not to want to walk around in posing trunks or feel the need to prove or justify themselves to a bunch of strangers on internet.

Post some more drug assisted pictures if you want but it means nothing and proves you have absolutely no logical refutation to my argument. Most likely because you know I’m right and you are probably just trying to troll me for laughs.

And still NO-ONE has put forward the FUCKING MAGIC NUMBER COMBINATION OF LBM AND BF THAT PROVES SOMEONE IS USING STEROIDS. I wonder why? Because you can’t do its an exercise in futility.

1086

I think you’re just butt hurt that your “friend” has lied to you about using steroids.

You are saying that he’s 225 at 6%, but he would only weigh 191 on stage? No natty is dropping that much water weight if they are already at 6%.

1087

Why do you keep bringing up the off season weights? Of course their off season weights will be higher because their body fat levels are considerably higher.

Competition level leanness is generally accepted to be 4-6% correct? So you are saying that your friend walks around as a natural in competition level leanness year round. He would need a week of water manipulation to do a show at any point of the year. That is basically what you numbers imply. Like the might stu said, naturals do not retain nearly as much water as assisted lifters because of the lack of anabolics. You friend would not need to cut 30+ pounds of water and if his stats are correct be would probably compete in the 202 class which is where some of the competitors who’s photos were posted already competed.

Does this all make sense to you? Most here aren’t flat out calling you a liar, rather they are saying that you are just slightly misinformed. Or trolling for lulz. No penis photos please.

1088

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I think you’re just butt hurt that your “friend” has lied to you about using steroids.

You are saying that he’s 225 at 6%, but he would only weigh 191 on stage? No natty is dropping that much water weight if they are already at 6%.[/quote]

I’ve dropped that much taking a DUMP.

1089

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Why do you keep bringing up the off season weights? Of course their off season weights will be higher because their body fat levels are considerably higher.

Competition level leanness is generally accepted to be 4-6% correct? So you are saying that your friend walks around as a natural in competition level leanness year round. He would need a week of water manipulation to do a show at any point of the year. That is basically what you numbers imply. Like the might stu said, naturals do not retain nearly as much water as assisted lifters because of the lack of anabolics. You friend would not need to cut 30+ pounds of water and if his stats are correct be would probably compete in the 202 class which is where some of the competitors who’s photos were posted already competed.

Does this all make sense to you? Most here aren’t flat out calling you a liar, rather they are saying that you are just slightly misinformed. Or trolling for lulz. No penis photos please.[/quote]

How much water do you retain on anabolics? On heavy doses of test my weight goes up immediately on starting a cycle (short estered gear) by about 7lbs and my weight varies from 220-230 during the day. Its not that much is it really?

1090

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
I think you’re just butt hurt that your “friend” has lied to you about using steroids.

You are saying that he’s 225 at 6%, but he would only weigh 191 on stage? No natty is dropping that much water weight if they are already at 6%.[/quote]

I’ve dropped that much taking a DUMP.
[/quote]

But you’re on anabolics. It’s a different story if that dump is natural.

1091

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Why do you keep bringing up the off season weights? [/quote]

THIS

Your friend does not have an offseason weight…you said so yourself. So why keep bringing it up?

We are calling bullshit on his weight and leanness year round as a natty.

Quit bringing up steroid users offseason weights…they do not apply here.

Their pics are only being posted because they look like what you say your friend does as a FUCKING NATTY.

Sweet Jeebus.

1092

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Kevin English, 5’7", looking rather Palumboesque and competing in 212 or 202 class. [/quote]

280 pounds offseason weight? You do realise you are just proving my point further here.
[/quote]

Good point.

English is in excess of 275lbs in the off season at that height.

His “bulking up” seems to be keeping those trophies coming his way.

1093

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Kevin English, 5’7", looking rather Palumboesque and competing in 212 or 202 class. [/quote]

280 pounds offseason weight? You do realise you are just proving my point further here.
[/quote]

Good point.

English is in excess of 275lbs in the off season at that height.

His “bulking up” seems to be keeping those trophies coming his way.[/quote]

Try and keep up.

MassiveGUNZ said he has a friend who is a NATTY who is 5’7" 225lbs at 6% bodyfat YEAR ROUND.

Bullshit without anabolics was called.

What in the world are you agreeing with? The fact that Gunz is trying to change the subject by bringing assisted bodybuilders into the discussion.

That was never a part of what we were talking about.

1094

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Try and keep up.

MassiveGUNZ said he has a friend who is a NATTY who is 5’7" 225lbs at 6% bodyfat YEAR ROUND.

Bullshit without anabolics was called.

What in the world are you agreeing with? The fact that Gunz is trying to change the subject by bringing assisted bodybuilders into the discussion.

That was never a part of what we were talking about.[/quote]

I don’t need to keep up. I think the “let’s gang up on anyone who claims someone out there has amazing genetics” thing is so played out it needs to be in reruns.

I have known some people with amazing genetics who I thought were natural based on how well I know them.

trying to PROVE that to you or anyone else is pointless without me looking like a creep running around trying to take random pictures of people I barely know just so you can figure out there the world is way bigger than what you may personally have come across.

If you want to spend the next few pages arguing that someone like that doesn’t exist, so be it. Have fun.

just know some of us think that a a little old and tired and pointless.

1095

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Try and keep up.

MassiveGUNZ said he has a friend who is a NATTY who is 5’7" 225lbs at 6% bodyfat YEAR ROUND.

Bullshit without anabolics was called.

What in the world are you agreeing with? The fact that Gunz is trying to change the subject by bringing assisted bodybuilders into the discussion.

That was never a part of what we were talking about.[/quote]

just know some of us think that a a little old and tired and pointless.[/quote]

We have been discussing it, you were arguing with other people in other places clearly.

And your new favorite trick is to us the ol’ “SOME OF US line”.

Who? you and your sock MassiveGUNZ?

1096

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Try and keep up.

MassiveGUNZ said he has a friend who is a NATTY who is 5’7" 225lbs at 6% bodyfat YEAR ROUND.

Bullshit without anabolics was called.

What in the world are you agreeing with? The fact that Gunz is trying to change the subject by bringing assisted bodybuilders into the discussion.

That was never a part of what we were talking about.[/quote]

I don’t need to keep up. I think the “let’s gang up on anyone who claims someone out there has amazing genetics” thing is so played out it needs to be in reruns.

I have known some people with amazing genetics who I thought were natural based on how well I know them.

trying to PROVE that to you or anyone else is pointless without me looking like a creep running around trying to take random pictures of people I barely know just so you can figure out there the world is way bigger than what you may personally have come across.

If you want to spend the next few pages arguing that someone like that doesn’t exist, so be it. Have fun.

just know some of us think that a a little old and tired and pointless.[/quote]

I get what your saying X, but you have got to admit that someone who walks around looking like a contest-ready flex wheeler year round as a natural is at best far-fetched??

1097

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

I get what your saying X, but you have got to admit that someone who walks around looking like a contest-ready flex wheeler year round as a natural is at best far-fetched??[/quote]

It is hard to believe.

But I also wrote about a guy I know who is 23 years old right now weighing 240lbs with all abs showing at about 5’9".

I see the guy often and sometimes train with him. His work ethic is insane and he lives and breaths this shit.

Trying to PROVE that to you is pointless because I am not going to run around chasing people with cameras just because it is hard to believe.

I have written it before…if you live in a big city, you probably see more of this.

Why chase someone around arguing about it?

1098

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

I get what your saying X, but you have got to admit that someone who walks around looking like a contest-ready flex wheeler year round as a natural is at best far-fetched??[/quote]

It is hard to believe.

But I also wrote about a guy I know who is 23 years old right now weighing 240lbs with all abs showing at about 5’9".

I see the guy often and sometimes train with him. His work ethic is insane and he lives and breaths this shit.

Trying to PROVE that to you is pointless because I am not going to run around chasing people with cameras just because it is hard to believe.

I have written it before…if you live in a big city, you probably see more of this.

Why chase someone around arguing about it?[/quote]

That is far more believable. That’s 3 inches taller, 20 lbs heavier but your are allowing for potentially 12% higher bf if he has the right abdominal structure.

1099

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

I get what your saying X, but you have got to admit that someone who walks around looking like a contest-ready flex wheeler year round as a natural is at best far-fetched??[/quote]

It is hard to believe.

But I also wrote about a guy I know who is 23 years old right now weighing 240lbs with all abs showing at about 5’9".

I see the guy often and sometimes train with him. His work ethic is insane and he lives and breaths this shit.

Trying to PROVE that to you is pointless because I am not going to run around chasing people with cameras just because it is hard to believe.

I have written it before…if you live in a big city, you probably see more of this.

Why chase someone around arguing about it?[/quote]

That is far more believable. That’s 3 inches taller, 20 lbs heavier but your are allowing for potentially 12% higher bf if he has the right abdominal structure. [/quote]

5’9" at 245 with abs is believable assisted or not.

5’7" 225, natty, and year round 6% is something else entirely

1100

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

5’9" at 245 with abs is believable assisted or not.

5’7" 225, natty, and year round 6% is something else entirely[/quote]

So your goal is to keep beating that into ground for another few pages?

Are you trying to get him to stop posting here?

You don’t believe it. Great. I haven’t even given it much thought beyond that because I have seen enough to know there is some unbelievable shit out there…so until I see it, running around yelling how IMPOSSIBLE it is makes no sense other than to ostracize people from the forum.

Why keep doing that?