[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.[/quote]
It was a joke.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.[/quote]
Come on man, there’s an interesting discussion going on in this thread that is actually in FAVOUR of your preferred method of putting on muscle and you pick out the one silly comment that is obviously a joke… Grow up
That aside it’s an interesting idea about higher body weight=lifting bigger=more muscle gained, meganewb/geoleeman (sp?)springs to mind here. I suppose its just another hypothetical as we will never easily be able to compare that to a more conservative approach.
However, I lost 30 lbs on a 14 wk diet last year and 12 wks in I set a new PR on deadlift… Make of that what you will!
I’m sorry, but even if he leaned down to 225, as optimally as possible, he’d still be quite overweight. He’s barely OH pressing his bodyweight.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
[quote]BHappy wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]
The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]
Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
Obesity increases LBM and strength, because your body is constantly under load. Ever seen an obese person with small calves? Most obese people have calves that would put the best natural bodybuilders to shame, and most of them don’t lift weights or take steroids.
I’ve seen fat women at the gym and thought, “fuck I wish I had calves like that!”
[/quote]
You obviously know little about human physiology.
Skip or take notes to learn.
Fat is a grey area like fullhouse.
OK, fat is fat but for most considering a person fat means excess weight.
Some of the excess might be fat.
Some of that excess might be water retention.
Often it is a combination of both.
Obese people feel their shoes are smaller in the evening because the water retention goes up and gravity pulls water down.
Bigger calves are a side effect from a combination of water retention and gravity.
Test it. Go 3 days no salt and mesure your ankles.
Eat lots of salt for 3 days and take your mesurement.
The scale will also count the water gain/loss.
No dentist will teach you reality about humans.
Well none here.[/quote]
So water rentention occurs to the same extent in the muscles as it does in subcutaneous fat tissue?
Since women tend to suffer from water rentention consistently whether they are obese or not, why dont women have bigger calves than men?
Why do women that wear high heels all the time have huge calves?
Why didn’t anyone reply to my question about massive natural tits?
[quote]lemony2j wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.[/quote]
Come on man, there’s an interesting discussion going on in this thread that is actually in FAVOUR of your preferred method of putting on muscle and you pick out the one silly comment that is obviously a joke… Grow up
That aside it’s an interesting idea about higher body weight=lifting bigger=more muscle gained, meganewb/geoleeman (sp?)springs to mind here. I suppose its just another hypothetical as we will never easily be able to compare that to a more conservative approach.
However, I lost 30 lbs on a 14 wk diet last year and 12 wks in I set a new PR on deadlift… Make of that what you will!
[/quote]
Was the PR about 30lbs over your previous max? Probably more like 10 to 15 id imagine. If you lose significant weight, you still largely have the same strength levels. So less bodyweight = more weight on the bar.
Food for thought for mr stay leans…
[quote]MickyGee wrote:
I’m sorry, but even if he leaned down to 225, as optimally as possible, he’d still be quite overweight. He’s barely OH pressing his bodyweight.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
[/quote]
Drumroll…
Whats his bodyfat percentage you reckon? 
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
The only reason he ever stops is injuries and he’s had so many, you’d have to think if he was doing gear and GH then it ain’t doing its fkn job properly
[/quote]
I think it’s really going to depend on the injury. If we’re talking connective tissue stuff here, you realize that a lot of heavy gear users suffer frequent issues as the muscle strength and joint integrity get out of wack. Now I’m certainly no doctor, but I’ve heard enough people with far better knowledge of PEDs than I point out the same issue.
Also, and I know nothing about your friend so I’m not casting any aspersions, I was ‘friends’ with the guy who worked the desk at one of my former gyms for years. The guy swore to me up and down that he was clean. At the time, I honestly had no clue. Years later I was hanging with some mutual acquaintances, and they were reminiscing about their injection parties with this particular buddy of mine. But wait,… he had no reason to lie to me…
Consider what Maiden just pointed out about Heath’s older stats. No one’s saying that you’re lying, merely that most people’s perceptions aren’t as accurate as those who are actually around people with those actual figures.
S[/quote]
Intelligent use of PED’s leads to less injuries over time, not more.
[/quote]
I guess the key word being ‘intelligent’ -lol. Still, with all the ridiculous nonsense I’ve seen we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one. Sure I realize the benefits of GH, but in terms of straight steroids, it’s a different story (muscle growth at a pace far exceeding the strengthening of connective tissues).
S[/quote]
Not all steroids are equal my friend. Believe me, and its not just about the steroids. Other factors all affect your bodie’s ability to synthesize collagen. Quite a lot in fact.
Think of it this way, if someone does a steroid cycle, the standard advice is to increase protein intake, because steroids increase protein synthesis. Take steroids and dont eat enough protein, and you are likely think steroids are not all they’re cracked up to be.
Since CERTAIN steroids increase collagen synthesis, and some in a detrimental manner, do you not think it would be wise if using them that you should feed all the necessary factors required for collagen synthesis? It makes sense right? How many bodybuilders out there can tell you about the detailed regime for the support of collagen building that they are taking? How many know the correct dosages required for things like collagen and glucosamine (to name two) to obtain maximum effect and in what proportions? How many supplement the co-factors necessary to support the enzymes that are responsible for collagen synthesis?
Not many.
It is possible to use steroids and decrease injury rate. I’m living proof, because since I’ve been using gear I’ve had my bases covered and I don’t get injured any more, and my strength has often gone up way faster than the rest of me could keep up. (Watch me tear something in the gym tomorrow now I’ve said that LOL)
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]MickyGee wrote:
I’m sorry, but even if he leaned down to 225, as optimally as possible, he’d still be quite overweight. He’s barely OH pressing his bodyweight.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
[/quote]
Drumroll…
Whats his bodyfat percentage you reckon?
[/quote]
I feel like this would be a good time for that Joker Meme. Not sure if you’re being serious or not about guessing his body fat percentage. I will venture a guess and based off that video he has got to be 30% at least.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]MickyGee wrote:
I’m sorry, but even if he leaned down to 225, as optimally as possible, he’d still be quite overweight. He’s barely OH pressing his bodyweight.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
[/quote]
Drumroll…
Whats his bodyfat percentage you reckon?
[/quote]
I feel like this would be a good time for that Joker Meme. Not sure if you’re being serious or not about guessing his body fat percentage. I will venture a guess and based off that video he has got to be 30% at least.
[/quote]
I am serious, but I thought it might raise an eyebrow or two if I asked.
I’d put him at 35%.
Anymore takers…
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
(Watch me tear something in the gym tomorrow now I’ve said that LOL)
[/quote]
Let’s hope not. I’m certainly no expert on PEDs
S
To reach 30 % twice the X number he would have to be 500( 2 x 250 ).
According to X chart he is 17 %.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
no he would not make a lean 225 he is easily over 30% bodyfat.
george leeman aka mega newb, bulked up to 400lbs at 6’2. with the aid of drugs he managed to get down to a reasonably lean 230 something. now this is someone who is 5 inches taller and used drugs while leaning down, yet still only ended up at 230 with 8-10% bodyfat. all that fat helped him for power lifting didnt really seem to do to much for physique and muscle gains.
also why are we discussing this powerlifter? im still calling bullshit on your apparent friend who walk around at a natural 5’7 225lb while maintaining 6% bodyfat…
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]lemony2j wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.[/quote]
Come on man, there’s an interesting discussion going on in this thread that is actually in FAVOUR of your preferred method of putting on muscle and you pick out the one silly comment that is obviously a joke… Grow up
That aside it’s an interesting idea about higher body weight=lifting bigger=more muscle gained, meganewb/geoleeman (sp?)springs to mind here. I suppose its just another hypothetical as we will never easily be able to compare that to a more conservative approach.
However, I lost 30 lbs on a 14 wk diet last year and 12 wks in I set a new PR on deadlift… Make of that what you will!
[/quote]
Was the PR about 30lbs over your previous max? Probably more like 10 to 15 id imagine. If you lose significant weight, you still largely have the same strength levels. So less bodyweight = more weight on the bar.
Food for thought for mr stay leans…
[/quote]
It was 22lbs over my previous.
I don’t understand what you mean by ‘less bodyweight=more weight on the bar’. I could understand this logic for pull-ups or other BW exercises but deadlifts? Please explain
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]MickyGee wrote:
I’m sorry, but even if he leaned down to 225, as optimally as possible, he’d still be quite overweight. He’s barely OH pressing his bodyweight.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
[/quote]
Drumroll…
Whats his bodyfat percentage you reckon?
[/quote]
I feel like this would be a good time for that Joker Meme. Not sure if you’re being serious or not about guessing his body fat percentage. I will venture a guess and based off that video he has got to be 30% at least.
[/quote]
If X is twenty plus then this lad must be seventy percent fat but then both have their shirts on. X looks more jacked than this bloke though dont you think? Both have man boobs but I reckon X has to be carrying a bit less fat than him surely. Its obvious though that even though they both had different goals one seeking strength the other muscle gain both followed the same gain fat as an assist mentality
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
also why are we discussing this powerlifter? im still calling bullshit on your apparent friend who walk around at a natural 5’7 225lb while maintaining 6% bodyfat…
[/quote]
everybody is.
That powerlifter guy is carrying more fat than a Greggs sausage roll
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
also why are we discussing this powerlifter? im still calling bullshit on your apparent friend who walk around at a natural 5’7 225lb while maintaining 6% bodyfat…
[/quote]
everybody is.
That powerlifter guy is carrying more fat than a Greggs sausage roll[/quote]
LOL I doubt our American friends will know what you mean but being a Geordie ( the home of Greggs ) I do
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
no he would not make a lean 225 he is easily over 30% bodyfat.
george leeman aka mega newb, bulked up to 400lbs at 6’2. with the aid of drugs he managed to get down to a reasonably lean 230 something. now this is someone who is 5 inches taller and used drugs while leaning down, yet still only ended up at 230 with 8-10% bodyfat. all that fat helped him for power lifting didnt really seem to do to much for physique and muscle gains.
also why are we discussing this powerlifter? im still calling bullshit on your apparent friend who walk around at a natural 5’7 225lb while maintaining 6% bodyfat…
[/quote]
This fat powerlifter competed at 400lbs I believe, naturally. At most he is 40% bodyfat, still plenty of headroom for a lean 225 after trimming down.
And how on earth does meganewb prove that gaining all that fat did nothing for physique and muscle gains? On the one hand you put forward 230 at 8-10% bodyfat as an amazing level of development that supposedly no other natural lifter can attain easily, esp at a shorter height. Yet of the other hand you belittle it and say he “only” ended up with 230 at 8-10%. You can’t argue in opposite directions with the same stat.
Your example proves my point, as does the fat guy above. It is possible to gain a ton of muscle naturally. And its your choice whether you believe me or not about my friend, I really do not give a shit either way because the fact is he is the real deal. And with people as small minded as you to accuse people of steroids without ever having met them what are the chances he’d be comfortable putting himself out in the open. Ain’t gonna happen.
What about people like wade johnson or bud jeffries who’ve squatted over 1000lbs naturally, and carrying muscle mass that would put most people on here to shame? Gonna start slinging accusations of steroid use at them with no other evidence than the fact they are statistical outliers? Would you say that to their face if you met them?
[quote]lemony2j wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]lemony2j wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.[/quote]
Miss the point much?
The issue is, NO ONE GAINS JUST FAT. They usually gain lean body mass and fat mass even in obesity…so saying that gaining some extra fat has ZERO use to a bodybuilder is a little off.
Is it ideal? maybe not, but let’s not ignore blatant biology working right in front of us.[/quote]
Come on man, there’s an interesting discussion going on in this thread that is actually in FAVOUR of your preferred method of putting on muscle and you pick out the one silly comment that is obviously a joke… Grow up
That aside it’s an interesting idea about higher body weight=lifting bigger=more muscle gained, meganewb/geoleeman (sp?)springs to mind here. I suppose its just another hypothetical as we will never easily be able to compare that to a more conservative approach.
However, I lost 30 lbs on a 14 wk diet last year and 12 wks in I set a new PR on deadlift… Make of that what you will!
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Was the PR about 30lbs over your previous max? Probably more like 10 to 15 id imagine. If you lose significant weight, you still largely have the same strength levels. So less bodyweight = more weight on the bar.
Food for thought for mr stay leans…
[/quote]
It was 22lbs over my previous.
I don’t understand what you mean by ‘less bodyweight=more weight on the bar’. I could understand this logic for pull-ups or other BW exercises but deadlifts? Please explain[/quote]
When you do a deadlift, you are lifting a large percentage of your bodyweight. So if you lose bodyfat, then your dead will go up because you can lift the same max weight, but you have “taken some off the bar” by losing fat. Its no co-incidence its about the same as the weight you lost.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]
He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]
no he would not make a lean 225 he is easily over 30% bodyfat.
george leeman aka mega newb, bulked up to 400lbs at 6’2. with the aid of drugs he managed to get down to a reasonably lean 230 something. now this is someone who is 5 inches taller and used drugs while leaning down, yet still only ended up at 230 with 8-10% bodyfat. all that fat helped him for power lifting didnt really seem to do to much for physique and muscle gains.
also why are we discussing this powerlifter? im still calling bullshit on your apparent friend who walk around at a natural 5’7 225lb while maintaining 6% bodyfat…
[/quote]
I’ll put it another way. He BUILT that muscle mass NATURALLY and got to 230 at 8-10% (notice I say built) and apparently that fat did nothing for him in regard to muscle gain. See the contradiction?