LIMITS

Training
921

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]

Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).

Your buddy must be quite a sight.

S[/quote]

Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]

Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]

either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…

i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!

[/quote]

Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]

what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…[/quote]

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.

922

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.

923

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I would love to know what PX sees when he looks in the mirror. Seriously curious…I imagine it’s pretty close to an off-season Heath. [/quote]

I think this ties in with one of the things Waylander pointed out about X maybe two years back… how it’s easy to feel you look better than you do when relying solely on the mirror to determine where you’re at vs. taking actual progress photos which include the mandatory poses.

I mean, let’s face it: I’d imagine most everyone here has looked at themselves in the mirror to the point where they have figured out how to tilt, twist and contort themselves just right, flex just so, suck in “this” and push out “that” to bring out their best aesthetics. Sometimes these shifts happen so automatically and autonomously that it’s difficult to really pick up all the subtle changes.

There’s a HUGE difference between that and relying on your money pose for each photo session and taking basic pics of yourself banging out a front double bi, side tri, rear lat, etc. for gauging progress. It’s also great to just be able to step back and look at what you’re bringing to the table without the ability to make subtle micro-corrections to feel better about what you’re seeing.

Most bulkers out there have experienced what a cruel and unforgiving mistress the camera lens can be.

Not saying X ain’t big, or X is fat, or whatever… just that the easiest way to settle what’s what is probably a little simpler than arguing about shooting on over to a hospital for a hydrostatic weighing (or, Jesus Christ, offering to help pay for it).[/quote]

well said, i am figuring this out now as i am trying to diet with zraw and strongholds help, and with the various poses that they are telling me to take pictures of compared to the pics i am comfortable posting, ugh…
[/quote]

Have you ever seen a pair of tits in real life (as in had them in your hands up close) that were so fucking big, firm and perky, that you would swear they were fake? I mean really big like triple K or J size?

924

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.

925

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

Have you seen a pair of tits like I mentioned in the previous post?

926

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Hey, I have made that same point too and did it with my own training.

927

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”.

928

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
The only reason he ever stops is injuries and he’s had so many, you’d have to think if he was doing gear and GH then it ain’t doing its fkn job properly
[/quote]

I think it’s really going to depend on the injury. If we’re talking connective tissue stuff here, you realize that a lot of heavy gear users suffer frequent issues as the muscle strength and joint integrity get out of wack. Now I’m certainly no doctor, but I’ve heard enough people with far better knowledge of PEDs than I point out the same issue.

Also, and I know nothing about your friend so I’m not casting any aspersions, I was ‘friends’ with the guy who worked the desk at one of my former gyms for years. The guy swore to me up and down that he was clean. At the time, I honestly had no clue. Years later I was hanging with some mutual acquaintances, and they were reminiscing about their injection parties with this particular buddy of mine. But wait,… he had no reason to lie to me…

Consider what Maiden just pointed out about Heath’s older stats. No one’s saying that you’re lying, merely that most people’s perceptions aren’t as accurate as those who are actually around people with those actual figures.

S[/quote]

Intelligent use of PED’s leads to less injuries over time, not more.

929

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]

But obesity DOES lead to an increase in LBM.

930

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?

931

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]

Obesity increases LBM and strength, because your body is constantly under load. Ever seen an obese person with small calves? Most obese people have calves that would put the best natural bodybuilders to shame, and most of them don’t lift weights or take steroids.

I’ve seen fat women at the gym and thought, “fuck I wish I had calves like that!”

932

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?
[/quote]

I agree with you, I was about to post something similar but you beat me to it.

933

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]

Obesity increases LBM and strength, because your body is constantly under load. Ever seen an obese person with small calves? Most obese people have calves that would put the best natural bodybuilders to shame, and most of them don’t lift weights or take steroids.

I’ve seen fat women at the gym and thought, “fuck I wish I had calves like that!”
[/quote]
Shit, I’m gonna have to get obese to grow some calves cause they just won’t grow

934

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?
[/quote]

I see what you’re trying to say. However, there can in some cases be an increase in load from all or nearly all fat gain. You can eat your way to a bigger bench. When the fat comes off, that bench might or likely will go down, and there likely can be no increase or no respectable increase in lean mass.

Now, this is to a point. I DO advocate bulking for some people in some cases and for some goals.

935

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
The only reason he ever stops is injuries and he’s had so many, you’d have to think if he was doing gear and GH then it ain’t doing its fkn job properly
[/quote]

I think it’s really going to depend on the injury. If we’re talking connective tissue stuff here, you realize that a lot of heavy gear users suffer frequent issues as the muscle strength and joint integrity get out of wack. Now I’m certainly no doctor, but I’ve heard enough people with far better knowledge of PEDs than I point out the same issue.

Also, and I know nothing about your friend so I’m not casting any aspersions, I was ‘friends’ with the guy who worked the desk at one of my former gyms for years. The guy swore to me up and down that he was clean. At the time, I honestly had no clue. Years later I was hanging with some mutual acquaintances, and they were reminiscing about their injection parties with this particular buddy of mine. But wait,… he had no reason to lie to me…

Consider what Maiden just pointed out about Heath’s older stats. No one’s saying that you’re lying, merely that most people’s perceptions aren’t as accurate as those who are actually around people with those actual figures.

S[/quote]

Intelligent use of PED’s leads to less injuries over time, not more.
[/quote]

I guess the key word being ‘intelligent’ -lol. Still, with all the ridiculous nonsense I’ve seen we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one. Sure I realize the benefits of GH, but in terms of straight steroids, it’s a different story (muscle growth at a pace far exceeding the strengthening of connective tissues).

S

936

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?
[/quote]

I see what you’re trying to say. However, there can in some cases be an increase in load from all or nearly all fat gain. You can eat your way to a bigger bench. When the fat comes off, that bench might or likely will go down, and there likely can be no increase or no respectable increase in lean mass.

Now, this is to a point. I DO advocate bulking for some people in some cases and for some goals. [/quote]
I honestly don’t know if it’s true or not but it would make sense. The way I see it is that the added weight and cushioning from fat and water puts more tension on the muscle which stimulates more growth, so the end result is more muscle, who knows if you keep that when you diet down some will and some won’t but it makes a good case for bulking

937

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?
[/quote]

I see what you’re trying to say. However, there can in some cases be an increase in load from all or nearly all fat gain. You can eat your way to a bigger bench. When the fat comes off, that bench might or likely will go down, and there likely can be no increase or no respectable increase in lean mass.

Now, this is to a point. I DO advocate bulking for some people in some cases and for some goals. [/quote]
I honestly don’t know if it’s true or not but it would make sense. The way I see it is that the added weight and cushioning from fat and water puts more tension on the muscle which stimulates more growth, so the end result is more muscle, who knows if you keep that when you diet down some will and some won’t but it makes a good case for bulking
[/quote]

I think we see eye-to-eye for the most part: bulking up and putting up some respectable numbers and then taking a more calculated approach. You look great, so obviously you know what you’re doing.

938

Obesity leads to more muscle, that’s why all the competitors on The Biggest Loser are so jacked.

939

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]

Obesity increases LBM and strength, because your body is constantly under load. Ever seen an obese person with small calves? Most obese people have calves that would put the best natural bodybuilders to shame, and most of them don’t lift weights or take steroids.

I’ve seen fat women at the gym and thought, “fuck I wish I had calves like that!”
[/quote]

You obviously know little about human physiology.
Skip or take notes to learn.
Fat is a grey area like fullhouse.
OK, fat is fat but for most considering a person fat means excess weight.
Some of the excess might be fat.
Some of that excess might be water retention.
Often it is a combination of both.
Obese people feel their shoes are smaller in the evening because the water retention goes up and gravity pulls water down.
Bigger calves are a side effect from a combination of water retention and gravity.
Test it. Go 3 days no salt and mesure your ankles.
Eat lots of salt for 3 days and take your mesurement.
The scale will also count the water gain/loss.
No dentist will teach you reality about humans.
Well none here.

940

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]myself1992 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

He is 5 7 (I think) and carrying enough muscle mass to meet the 225 pounds at 5 7 lean bracket naturally that is apparently impossible to achieve. Yes hes fat now, but if he leaned down he’d be pretty big.[/quote]

It is a point I have made before. They seem to discount any gains made unless someone is very lean.[/quote]

The funny thing is that guys obesity is probably the reason he got so strong naturally, which says a lot for eating properly when trying to get strong. I have a feeling though that hes either going to be accused of steroid use, or that because he’s so fat he just doesn’t count.
[/quote]

Yeah, as mentioned elsewere about a thousand times, increasing fatness lends to lifting bigger. It doesn’t mean there was some respectable increase in lean mass because there was an increase in “fat strength”. [/quote]
But lifting bigger increases muscle tension, and if hypertrophy is a result of both muscle tension and TUT, then the increased muscle tension caused from the heavier weights being used could stimulate more growth. What do you think?
[/quote]

I see what you’re trying to say. However, there can in some cases be an increase in load from all or nearly all fat gain. You can eat your way to a bigger bench. When the fat comes off, that bench might or likely will go down, and there likely can be no increase or no respectable increase in lean mass.

Now, this is to a point. I DO advocate bulking for some people in some cases and for some goals. [/quote]
I honestly don’t know if it’s true or not but it would make sense. The way I see it is that the added weight and cushioning from fat and water puts more tension on the muscle which stimulates more growth, so the end result is more muscle, who knows if you keep that when you diet down some will and some won’t but it makes a good case for bulking
[/quote]

I think we see eye-to-eye for the most part: bulking up and putting up some respectable numbers and then taking a more calculated approach. You look great, so obviously you know what you’re doing. [/quote]

There is a difference between bulking up like off season pro’s used to do and going on the “see good diet” and getting up to 30% body fat right?