Somewhere HT in this thread complimented my quads. Thanks for the compliment HT!
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Dorian Yates, offseason, low 300’s or high 200’s, not fat. [/quote]
Which post was this in response to?
[/quote]
Nearly any comment about building 80 to 100 pound muscle gains and being a 250 to 300 pound behemoth with no sloppiness or achieving more than every natural in the past 60 years. [/quote]
If i were you i’d have left this thread 30 pages ago. You’ve said the same thing 50 times now and no one’s listening.[/quote]
Well, just about everyone who agrees with me, those who are friends with me off this board in real life as well, and who has quoted me has been reading my posts.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
You really are committed to this aren’t you?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
I need to start ratings protein and salads only 
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Yeah, I know right. All made up and out of think air. I mean, I only went off of being a follower of bodybuilding and various other sports since 16 years old, routinely going to shows, degrees in nutrition and exercise physiology, socializing with my bodybuilding buddies (some competitive), reading various bodybuilding authors, and plain old LOGIC and COMMON SENSE. [/quote]
What is it with you? I have asked you very specific questions and all I get is stuff like this in return.
I mean, seriously? Just to let you know, I grew up in bodybuilding also and can say exactly the same and I disagree with what you have stated based on that.
[quote]
Anyway, we know that you believe that the truly genetically gifted ONLY choose to go for the big bucks in pro sports. Funny how no natural athlete is sporting more muscle mass than the estimations we speak of here. [/quote]
I didn’t say “only”. I said it is a mistake to assume that the best of the best genetically speaking would care about natural bodybuilding to start with so it limits the pool of data.
Seriously, address this statement directly.
[quote]
Oh yes, and let us not forget, there’s just an ENDLESS PIGGY BANK of spots in the NFL or NHL or NBA or MLB for EVERY genetically gifted specimen out there. After all, it just takes the genetics to make it, not to mention luck, work ethic, talent, financial support and other resources to make it. [/quote]
What does this even mean? Why would there need to be an endless number of spots in pro sports for people to NOT give a shit about a niche activity like natural bodybuilding that has far fewer fans than even the niche sport of pro bodybuilding?
[quote]
Same with Hollywood too. There’s just an endless amount of spots for big time production and soap operas for every schmuck with looks and a good body.
Oh wait, I probably forgot, you know who’s natural or not. And a football or basketball player wouldn’t dare take anabolics. [/quote]
Uh…what?
You can’t be serious here.
There isn’t enough data to say what all naturals are capable of so putting a number like “80lbs” on it is pointless.
Why not respond to what is actually written instead of all of what you wrote just now?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]steven alex wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Semblance of abs. [/quote]
But you arent saying that X looks like this guy are you? [/quote]
What I’m saying for the hundredth time is that “semblance of abs”, “veins in the biceps and delts”, and “separation in the quads” don’t have shit to do with estimating leanness or fatness because as we see here obese Donnie Thompson is sporting “semblance of abs”. So did Dave Tate at 20+% bodyfat. [/quote]
I think most of us can tell the difference between that and someone leaner.
He asked you if you were saying I looked like that in terms of fatness. You didn’t answer his question with a simple yes or no.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
I told you he isn’t a bodybuilder, he hates bodybuilding. He thinks its gay and kinda pointless. It is hard to believe, especially after seeing him in person. If I’m really honest, I have plenty of times busted his chops saying “come on, you must have done some gear at some point” but after some many times I’ve asked him and got to know him, he has no reason to lie. I am sure he is telling the truth. It’s also funny because of the way he detests bodybuilding, because as far as he’s concerned its all about drugs, he has no respect for it whatsoever.
And he ain’t lazy that’s for sure, he literally can’t stop training. The only reason he ever stops is injuries and he’s had so many, you’d have to think if he was doing gear and GH then it ain’t doing its fkn job properly, because I hardly ever get injured, and if I do it clears up in no more than a week when I’m on, in some cases days.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
Phil Heath was 227lbs at the 09 Olympia. Phil fucking Heath, future mr. O 227 lbs conteat shape. Sorry if people dont believe that your friend walks around YEAR ROUND with Phils 09 O stats NATURAL! Im all for not putting limits on people, but telling a 5’7 white guy that he can be a top center in the NBA with enough hard work isnt the best idea.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
The only reason he ever stops is injuries and he’s had so many, you’d have to think if he was doing gear and GH then it ain’t doing its fkn job properly
[/quote]
I think it’s really going to depend on the injury. If we’re talking connective tissue stuff here, you realize that a lot of heavy gear users suffer frequent issues as the muscle strength and joint integrity get out of wack. Now I’m certainly no doctor, but I’ve heard enough people with far better knowledge of PEDs than I point out the same issue.
Also, and I know nothing about your friend so I’m not casting any aspersions, I was ‘friends’ with the guy who worked the desk at one of my former gyms for years. The guy swore to me up and down that he was clean. At the time, I honestly had no clue. Years later I was hanging with some mutual acquaintances, and they were reminiscing about their injection parties with this particular buddy of mine. But wait,… he had no reason to lie to me…
Consider what Maiden just pointed out about Heath’s older stats. No one’s saying that you’re lying, merely that most people’s perceptions aren’t as accurate as those who are actually around people with those actual figures.
S
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Phil Heath was 227lbs at the 09 Olympia. Phil fucking Heath, future mr. O 227 lbs conteat shape. Sorry if people dont believe that your friend walks around YEAR ROUND with Phils 09 O stats NATURAL! Im all for not putting limits on people, but telling a 5’7 white guy that he can be a top center in the NBA with enough hard work isnt the best idea.[/quote]
Wait… so first X tells me I have limits and can never get big, now you are telling me I need to stop chasing my dream of playing center for the Heat. Fuck me… Any other dreams you want to ruin T-Nation?
I would love to know what PX sees when he looks in the mirror. Seriously curious…I imagine it’s pretty close to an off-season Heath.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Phil Heath was 227lbs at the 09 Olympia. Phil fucking Heath, future mr. O 227 lbs conteat shape. Sorry if people dont believe that your friend walks around YEAR ROUND with Phils 09 O stats NATURAL! Im all for not putting limits on people, but telling a 5’7 white guy that he can be a top center in the NBA with enough hard work isnt the best idea.[/quote]
Wait… so first X tells me I have limits and can never get big, now you are telling me I need to stop chasing my dream of playing center for the Heat. Fuck me… Any other dreams you want to ruin T-Nation? [/quote]
You were adopted. Sorry bro.
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Phil Heath was 227lbs at the 09 Olympia. Phil fucking Heath, future mr. O 227 lbs conteat shape. Sorry if people dont believe that your friend walks around YEAR ROUND with Phils 09 O stats NATURAL! Im all for not putting limits on people, but telling a 5’7 white guy that he can be a top center in the NBA with enough hard work isnt the best idea.[/quote]
Wait… so first X tells me I have limits and can never get big, now you are telling me I need to stop chasing my dream of playing center for the Heat. Fuck me… Any other dreams you want to ruin T-Nation? [/quote]
You were adopted. Sorry bro.[/quote]
Wait… so does that mean im not really a jew? Not sure if that is good news or bad news…
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I would love to know what PX sees when he looks in the mirror. Seriously curious…I imagine it’s pretty close to an off-season Heath. [/quote]
I think this ties in with one of the things Waylander pointed out about X maybe two years back… how it’s easy to feel you look better than you do when relying solely on the mirror to determine where you’re at vs. taking actual progress photos which include the mandatory poses.
I mean, let’s face it: I’d imagine most everyone here has looked at themselves in the mirror to the point where they have figured out how to tilt, twist and contort themselves just right, flex just so, suck in “this” and push out “that” to bring out their best aesthetics. Sometimes these shifts happen so automatically and autonomously that it’s difficult to really pick up all the subtle changes.
There’s a HUGE difference between that and relying on your money pose for each photo session and taking basic pics of yourself banging out a front double bi, side tri, rear lat, etc. for gauging progress. It’s also great to just be able to step back and look at what you’re bringing to the table without the ability to make subtle micro-corrections to feel better about what you’re seeing.
Most bulkers out there have experienced what a cruel and unforgiving mistress the camera lens can be.
Not saying X ain’t big, or X is fat, or whatever… just that the easiest way to settle what’s what is probably a little simpler than arguing about shooting on over to a hospital for a hydrostatic weighing (or, Jesus Christ, offering to help pay for it).
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
He may be an inch taller, but he is definately shorter than me and I’m 5 10. Weight I’m sure of, and body fat also sure.
[/quote]
Doug Miller, Natural Pro Bodybuilder, and easily one of the thicker Pros out there. 5’9 (shorter than 5’10), competes at 186-192 lbs. Contest shape here, estimated at about 6-7% (4% is basically dead and dessicated according to all doctors I’ve spoken with).
Your buddy must be quite a sight.
S[/quote]
Never seen him with a tan like that, but he is lean as shit. He has retardedly huge legs. Forearm detail and serratus always visible.
[/quote]
Bro, I’m sure your friend is impressive. However, like I alluded to before, I think your perception is off. AND… your bodybuilder friend might be, like many lazy and mealy mouthed bodybuiders… LYING to you.
[/quote]
either he or his friend is lying, not even debatable. this man at 5’7 225 while being 6% bodyfat is over 40lbs heavier than any natty his height. elite genetics or not this doesn’t happen…
i occasionally train with a guy at my gym, who is 6’2 220 @ about 8-10% bodyfat. hes natty and looks like a fucking beast. do you even know what someone 5 inches smaller and heavier than this man would look like? bigger than even most pros his size. if you still truly believe he is natty you are so deluded its not even funny!
[/quote]
Daniel Martin, natural powerlifter. Over 300lbs at 5 7 (I believe from what I have found but I could be wrong).
[/quote]
what does posting this guy prove? he looks obese…
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Somewhere HT in this thread complimented my quads. Thanks for the compliment HT![/quote]
your welcome!
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I would love to know what PX sees when he looks in the mirror. Seriously curious…I imagine it’s pretty close to an off-season Heath. [/quote]
I think this ties in with one of the things Waylander pointed out about X maybe two years back… how it’s easy to feel you look better than you do when relying solely on the mirror to determine where you’re at vs. taking actual progress photos which include the mandatory poses.
I mean, let’s face it: I’d imagine most everyone here has looked at themselves in the mirror to the point where they have figured out how to tilt, twist and contort themselves just right, flex just so, suck in “this” and push out “that” to bring out their best aesthetics. Sometimes these shifts happen so automatically and autonomously that it’s difficult to really pick up all the subtle changes.
There’s a HUGE difference between that and relying on your money pose for each photo session and taking basic pics of yourself banging out a front double bi, side tri, rear lat, etc. for gauging progress. It’s also great to just be able to step back and look at what you’re bringing to the table without the ability to make subtle micro-corrections to feel better about what you’re seeing.
Most bulkers out there have experienced what a cruel and unforgiving mistress the camera lens can be.
Not saying X ain’t big, or X is fat, or whatever… just that the easiest way to settle what’s what is probably a little simpler than arguing about shooting on over to a hospital for a hydrostatic weighing (or, Jesus Christ, offering to help pay for it).[/quote]
well said, i am figuring this out now as i am trying to diet with zraw and strongholds help, and with the various poses that they are telling me to take pictures of compared to the pics i am comfortable posting, ugh…