[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:
OP is 23 years old and 200lbs so that pretty much says it all.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/Mr.%20Walkway#myForums/thread/5554378/0[/quote]
Yep, and already juicing
[quote]Moses Correa wrote:
Although I am new to the forum, I respectfully disagree with the statement that power lifters get hurt a lot. Exercise in itself has an inherit risk especially if whether we are a bb or a pl we train for progress. the only people that never usually get hurt are walkers.[/quote]
Actually, thousands of pedestrians are killed each year after being struck by autos, so walking and jogging carry risk, as well. Only a small handful of people have died powerlifting/oly lifting throughout history; far less than the number of bodybuilders who died younger than they should have as a result of health complications associated with certain levels of the sport.
I read his post, it was poorly thought out and obnoxious and of course anyone that ever writes “I believe that powerlifting/lifting for strength, are very foolish ideas.” is pretty much sporting zero credibility from my perspective.
My question is why would anyone listen to a smallish 23 year old that doesn’t appear to have any real world experience, an advanced degree or some sort of professional expertise (pro bodybuilder, pro athlete, pro whatever) and also seems to feel that, at the age of 23 he needs to juice to reach his goals(I am not against AAS by the way, but at 23 I got stronger and bigger by looking at weights, it seems like something you do once hard work stops getting you results).
If you are 23 and juicing without a thought to how that could affect your future well…make sure you get my pizza here in 30 minutes, or else it’s free. If I am taking advice from you well…maybe we can carpool to work.
This became a lot more of an attack than I hoped, but I am posting it anyway.
There are so many powerlifter on this forum alone that are much bigger than him with about the same, or less bodyfat. The fact that he made that thread shows that he’s a pompous ass-hole. The only thing sadder is the people taking his word as gospel.
“I believe that powerlifting/lifting for strength, are very foolish ideas. I believe that methods like 5/3/1 will result in more injuries than growth, and should be avoided… i know that will turn off many here, but this is the bodybuilding forum.”
That’s what all the weak people say…
I respect BBing. Lots of discipline. But the reason I choose to strength train, is the carryover to everyday life. Movements like calf raises, tricep kickbacks or preacher curls don’t carryover that we’ll to everyday life like a squat, bench press, or deadlift. Makes you a more capable human being. Plus, what man wants to run around half naked with a bunch of other dudes on stage. Singlets aren’t that manly either, but they are NO thong!
Maybe someone can answer this for me but why is it required to wear singlets in the PL meets? I never really got a chance to find out why. I’m just curious!
[quote]Doh wrote:
Maybe someone can answer this for me but why is it required to wear singlets in the PL meets? I never really got a chance to find out why. I’m just curious![/quote]
So you can get a sweet, unobstructed gaze at their muscular thighs… to make sure they are going to parallel while squatting.
Also so you can keep a really close eye on their taut buttocks… to make sure it doesn’t leave the bench during a bench press.
And you wouldn’t want to miss letting your eyes pass over the chest, even if for a brief moment… to make sure the bar has paused there and hasn’t touched below the sternum.
[center]Strength is never a weakness![/center]
I think it was a recent Dan John or Trink article where they said that if their clients trained for performance they got much more consistent results and physique improvements than if they ‘just’ trained for size.
I’m not a Crossfit fan at all but I think a lot of their success with average joes is also down to this. Their better coaches also seem to reach out to the powerlifting community
What a sad thread this is.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
The two approaches to lifting are quite different.I read it as “ego” = lifting the most weight no matter what.
I would say that the “ego” part of power lifting is that MUCH of the technique work and teaching that goes into the activity involves making the lift “easier” … Shortening ROM, bringing in more muscles, using gear that allows you to lift way more weight.
While much of BB training traditionally looks for ways to make the movement harder, at the expense of lifting a higher amount of weight… The phrase “leave your ego at the door” comes to mind. So while you might be able to PL Squat 405, if you do it BB style that might shrink down to 315 rather quickly. Or pre-fatiguing the chest before you get to the bench press, which would significantly decrease the amount of weight you can use (which would be incredibly stupid in PL terms)
I love both of the sports so I can see the merit in training both ways. As long as the iron moves, we are all brothers.[/quote]
Per the context of a meet, then yes. But IMO, at least for raw lifters, that’s not always the case. I don’t really believe I need to remind anybody of this, but I’d think that it’s pretty safe to say that it’s not uncommon nowadays for lifters to spend a lot of time in mechanically disadvantageous positions (deficit pulls, high-bar squats, close grip paused bench, paused squats, etc. etc.), and training with lower percentages in exchange for a higher amount of sets and volume (sheiko comes to mind). I’m seeing a lot less guys staying within competition form year-round and maxing out all of the time; rather, the mantra “build strength, don’t test it” seems to be garnering more and more of a following (at least on this site).
Ok, obviously I’m biased toward heavy lifting.
But I also got to train alongside, with and train as a coach a LOT of very large human beings. Bodybuilders, powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongmen, etc.
And I will say this: those who were the biggest were those who pushed the most iron… with very few exceptions. Even the bodybuilders I trained did a lot of heavy lifting. Amit Sapir who I trained for years, right up to his second year as an IFBB pro would basically do powerlifting training in the morning and some bodybuilding-type work in the afternoon. He could bench in the 600s and squat/deadlift in the 800s. IFBB pro Pat Bernard, whom I work with specifically to bring up his back, had always been a heavy big basics kinda guy even before we got to work together, etc. You have guys like Johnny Jackson who trains very heavy and actually competed in powerlifting, so does Stan Efferding. Do I need to mention Ronnie Coleman doing sets of 1 and 2 with humongous weights on the deadlift and squats about 3 weeks before the olympia?
I will also say one thing… look at the top powerlifters and at the top bodybuilders who do mostly pumping work… the average Joe who trains for strength primarily is much more likely to look close to what the elite look like than an average Joe who trains with only pumping movement is likely to look close to the bodybuilding elite.
I’ve seen countless guys do more pumping’volume work look like they barely train. But I’ve rarely seen someone who can put up big number and train for strength look like they didn’t train. On average the average Joes who train for strength and get stronger carry more muscle than the average Joe who trains mostly doing pump work.
Of course drugs can change things. I’ve seen a ton of young guys take steroids and only do pump work and look decent (normally they aren’t really big but have a decent shape)… they rather assume that it’s their type of training that gives them results.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ok, obviously I’m biased toward heavy lifting.
But I also got to train alongside, with and train as a coach a LOT of very large human beings. Bodybuilders, powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongmen, etc.
And I will say this: those who were the biggest were those who pushed the most iron… with very few exceptions. Even the bodybuilders I trained did a lot of heavy lifting. Amit Sapir who I trained for years, right up to his second year as an IFBB pro would basically do powerlifting training in the morning and some bodybuilding-type work in the afternoon. He could bench in the 600s and squat/deadlift in the 800s. IFBB pro Pat Bernard, whom I work with specifically to bring up his back, had always been a heavy big basics kinda guy even before we got to work together, etc. You have guys like Johnny Jackson who trains very heavy and actually competed in powerlifting, so does Stan Efferding. Do I need to mention Ronnie Coleman doing sets of 1 and 2 with humongous weights on the deadlift and squats about 3 weeks before the olympia?
I will also say one thing… look at the top powerlifters and at the top bodybuilders who do mostly pumping work… the average Joe who trains for strength primarily is much more likely to look close to what the elite look like than an average Joe who trains with only pumping movement is likely to look close to the bodybuilding elite.
I’ve seen countless guys do more pumping’volume work look like they barely train. But I’ve rarely seen someone who can put up big number and train for strength look like they didn’t train. On average the average Joes who train for strength and get stronger carry more muscle than the average Joe who trains mostly doing pump work.
Of course drugs can change things. I’ve seen a ton of young guys take steroids and only do pump work and look decent (normally they aren’t really big but have a decent shape)… they rather assume that it’s their type of training that gives them results.[/quote]
I don’t know if that last part is fair. Most of those guys do Pump work as a method to not train hard. You can push yourself and train hard with pump work, but it’s on you to do it.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What a sad thread this is.[/quote]
Dont know why you think “this” thread is sad when it was brought about by an irresponsible and foolish comment. I created this thread in the context in which Mr. Walkaway asked for it to be created, I didn’t shit all over his thread in the BB forum, I took it to where it belonged and asked others who mainly strength trained if they were as irked at the comments as I was. Some agreed and some didn’t.
I find it disappointing that you didn’t voice your opinion on the subject matter especially because I respect you as a poster and a lifter.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I don’t know if that last part is fair. Most of those guys do Pump work as a method to not train hard. You can push yourself and train hard with pump work, but it’s on you to do it.[/quote]
I didn’t want to imply that… there are indeed pumpers that train very hard (Meadows and Antoine for example), there is no disputing that at all. But go to most commercial gyms and most of the “pumpers” do not train “hard” by my definition of it.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I don’t know if that last part is fair. Most of those guys do Pump work as a method to not train hard. You can push yourself and train hard with pump work, but it’s on you to do it.[/quote]
I didn’t want to imply that… there are indeed pumpers that train very hard (Meadows and Antoine for example), there is no disputing that at all. But go to most commercial gyms and most of the “pumpers” do not train “hard” by my definition of it.[/quote]
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I don’t think your evaluation of the training styles is fair because most guys lifting heavy train hard and most guys doing pump work don’t. Effort is a huge factor in success. You are mostly comparing training hard and heavy, to not training hard and pumping.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I don’t think your evaluation of the training styles is fair because most guys lifting heavy train hard and most guys doing pump work don’t. Effort is a huge factor in success. You are mostly comparing training hard and heavy, to not training hard and pumping. [/quote]
I agree 100%… which is probably one of the reasons I like heavy lifting: kinda hard to train heavy to gain strength and not train hard.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
What a sad thread this is.[/quote]
Dont know why you think “this” thread is sad when it was brought about by an irresponsible and foolish comment. I created this thread in the context in which Mr. Walkaway asked for it to be created, I didn’t shit all over his thread in the BB forum, I took it to where it belonged and asked others who mainly strength trained if they were as irked at the comments as I was. Some agreed and some didn’t.
I find it disappointing that you didn’t voice your opinion on the subject matter especially because I respect you as a poster and a lifter.
[/quote]
I actually did say something about the topic at hand before I posted that. You missed it.
I don’t think your posts were sad (only a bit overreacted perhaps) but the infantile PLer vs BBer posts of many other members were.