[quote]
The reasoning behind keeping rest intervals short is well-documented elsewhere on this site so I won’t get into it other than to say that rest intervals < 1 min increase testosterone production. But then, you must have known that with your wealth of experience.
DB[/quote]
Do you have the links? I didn’t know exactly what search terms to use to find it easily. thx!
[quote]uberswank wrote:
The reasoning behind keeping rest intervals short is well-documented elsewhere on this site so I won’t get into it other than to say that rest intervals < 1 min increase testosterone production. But then, you must have known that with your wealth of experience.
DB
Do you have the links? I didn’t know exactly what search terms to use to find it easily. thx![/quote]
Sorry, I don’t. I’ve read it a few times in different areas. Some were, I believe, so don’t kill me if I’m wrong, Waterbury has said it a few times, I think maybe Thibaudeau as well (I think).
I can’t even tell you if it was in Author’s locker room, or roundtables or articles. Sorry I can’t be more help. I definitely didn’t make it up.
DB
Another reason why OLAD isn’t necessarily for novices … to get the MOST out of it … you must be able to hit heavy 5s, 3s, and 2s with a minimum of warmup and without having these movements being neurologically primed (grooved) through frequent training (the last time you did them was a week ago).
If your movements are inefficient, you won’t get the most bang for the buck. If you are using Olympic movements, this becomes REALLY evident.
To second another poster’s recommendation, I am looking at OVT for a cycle between (not-)OLADs
Regards,
Mark
[quote]beans wrote:
…
OLAD is not a noob program, its essentially just a time-efficient portion of a neurological peaking mesocycle. And its probably more suited to advanced lifters than to noobs actually, because it takes greater advantage of an advanced lifter’s neural efficiency.
Its basically just the 80/20 principle. Some of us only have time for the 20% of a routine, so an OLAD cycle allows us to focus on the 20% that gets us 80% of the results.[/quote]
Great points.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
OLAD is a noob program.[/quote]
Saying it over and over again does not make it true.
Why don’t you go and start your own thread bitching about the OLAD programme instead of hijacking a thread where someone was asking a perfectly reasonable question?
You are coming across like a real ass.
For the record, I have not tried the programme, and I don’t have an axe to grind about defending Dan John.
You, sir, are a fucktard.
This kid Huey is like diesel weasel without the videos.
Every heard of the law of natural selection? You better watch out.
[quote]slimsaw00 wrote:
Killa Cam wrote:
In case nobody’s ever told you this hueyOT… you’re exactly the opposite of what T-Nation’s all about.
Rarely have I ever come across someone so closed minded. You’re a real gem pal. The program’s designed by an experienced, well respected trainer, & everybody who’s tried this program has reported success. You’re the only one slamming the program & you’ve never even done it!
Maybe you’re the smartest guy here, & you really do know everything. My guess is that you’re the dumbest guy here & you think you know everything.
If you’re too proud/blind to see that maybe there’s something out there you don’t know yet, then you should probably stop visiting this site.
I agree; instead of trying to help the original poster out, huey had to go on and on about how OLAD is shit when he’s never even done the program. Hey Huey, since you’ve never done the program I don’t really think that you have any say to call it a “newbie” routine. In fact all of the routines posted here are probably newbie routines for you, so I don’t really know why you are here?
To the original poster; I’ve been doing TBT for a few weeks and think it is a very good routine.
My 2cents
MS
[/quote]
i never said it was a shit routine, only that it is a noob routine. for an advanced lifter with good conditioning who can tolerate more volume, OLAD is a step backwards.
everyone seems to be getting their panties in a bunch because i can handle much more volume in order to make progress.
my apologies, i’ve been lifting for 8 years.
[quote]beans wrote:
HueyOT,
Don’t you think if we all had the luxury of training 10+ hours per week, of course we’d be doing more than one lift per day?
And I’m sorry, but if you train that much, have a normal, job, wife, and kids, then something besides your training is getting seriously neglected. If you’re just single, with a job and are focused on your training oustide of work enough to spend 6-7 days at it, then more power to you. In college I trained 7 days a week, 3-4 hours a day, about 1-1.5 hours of which was lifting. I loved it. I made gains that are still with me today. But there’s a time and place for everything. Enjoy it while it lasts now if you ever plan to have a family.
OLAD is not a noob program, its essentially just a time-efficient portion of a neurological peaking mesocycle. And its probably more suited to advanced lifters than to noobs actually, because it takes greater advantage of an advanced lifter’s neural efficiency.
Its basically just the 80/20 principle. Some of us only have time for the 20% of a routine, so an OLAD cycle allows us to focus on the 20% that gets us 80% of the results.[/quote]
i see where you’re coming from, i understand that people might not have to luxry to train as much as i do.
but i wouldn’t go so far to say that OLAD incorporates the big 80%. and it is definitely NOT better suited to advanced lifters. advanced lifters require MORE volume, not less, than their noob counterparts.
bottom line, OLAD doesn’t come even close to the amount of volume that i require to make significant progress.
i never said it was a shit program, only a noob program.
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
ruglayer09052000 wrote:
beans wrote:
HueyOT,
And I’m sorry, but if you train that much, have a normal, job, wife, and kids, then something besides your training is getting seriously neglected.
Troll, have the above mentioned things? I HIGHLY doubt it. I have a job, wife, and 4 kids and a home to take care of. I’m grateful as hell to get an hour of training 4 days a week.
Huey lists his occupation as “kinesiology student,” so yeah, this is just a college kid with time on his hands.
OLAD could also be a good training plan while dieting. Focus on gaining strength in only a few lifts with a low-volume lifting program that won’t zap recovery and spend the rest of the time doing energy systems work. Ever think of this application for OLAD, Huey? [/quote]
if we’re looking at OLAD from a performance perspective, why would you ever put yourself in a big caloric defecit? it makes no sense to be in a caloric defecit if you are trying to improve performance.
except maybe, if you’re fat and out of shape. but if you’re in even decent shape, performance will get worse if you deny yourself the calories you need.
i have no idea what you’re talking about, unless you’re trying to recommend OLAD as a program for dieting bodybuilders. even then, if the bodybuilder was advanced, it’s still too little volume and not enough frequency.
[quote]Feanor76 wrote:
Another reason why OLAD isn’t necessarily for novices … to get the MOST out of it … you must be able to hit heavy 5s, 3s, and 2s with a minimum of warmup and without having these movements being neurologically primed (grooved) through frequent training (the last time you did them was a week ago).
If your movements are inefficient, you won’t get the most bang for the buck. If you are using Olympic movements, this becomes REALLY evident.
To second another poster’s recommendation, I am looking at OVT for a cycle between (not-)OLADs
Regards,
Mark[/quote]
i understand that with OLAD you can make each and every workout ‘hard’. so what? a hard program doesn’t mean a good program.
what OLAD lacks is adequate volume, appropriately distributed throughout the week <or training minicycle, whatever you want to call it>.
i do upper body presses, for example, maybe 5-6 days a week. OLAD cannot provide this to me.
again, of course you can make the loading parameters in a given workout challenging . for example, a tons of sets at a particular percentage and short rest intervals.
ok, now what? what was the point of that? to tell your friends that your workout is hard and tough and i couldn’t get out bed the next day? here’s a tip, if you’re excessively sore for extended periods of time, you need to lower the volume and not demand work from your body that you cannot recuperate from.
finally: the funniest thing aboutn this thread is how many times i’ve heard ‘you haven’t tried the program, so don’t knock it!’
since when do i need to try out a program to know if it’s too little work for me or for advanced lifters?
do i need to try the flex magazine arm specialication routine workout to know that it sucks? no. do i need to try OLAD to say it’s a noob program that is a step backwards for a conditioned athlete? no.
huey,
Are you saying that lower volume and/or lower frequency is only good for noobs?
Even very advanced lifters like Dave Tate occasionally reduce volume for a period of time. Tate has a workout in which he only works two exercises each day.
Are you saying low volume/frequency is useless for even short periods of time?
I can see if you are questioning this approach for a long term program, but for a short period of time any change in stimulus can be beneficial.
The bottom line: you know what works for you and it would be kind of silly to argue with you about what works for you, but for you to call the OLAD program a noob program is inaccurate.
You can believe what you want, but the OLAD can be used for different levels of lifters.
The fact that there are lifters on this thread that are not noobs singing the praises of the OLAD is proof enough. So all of these lifters that are not noobs don’t know what the hell they are talking about, not likely.
It’s not for you and I respect that, I personally like to try it from time to time when life/family takes up my time but I still want to workout. Peace.
Let’s face it, Huey is a student, therefore he knows everything there is to know.
First off, I question anyone in ANY field, that claims to know more than an accomplished veteran like Dan John, let alone someone under the age of 50 who does so. We’ve all been there at some point (those of us over 30, anyway) where we had a knowledge base and assumed that anyone who learned otherwise, or that hasn’t had formal training, can’t teach us anything. Huey will probably come around at some point in his life and say, “you know, I was wrong about that.”
I’m done arguing with this guy on this point. Clearly, he knows that there is only one effective program for advanced lifters and none of us will change that. He needs more “life experience” in order to learn otherwise.
Good luck managing your hubris,
DB
[quote]DT20 wrote:
huey,
Are you saying that lower volume and/or lower frequency is only good for noobs?
Even very advanced lifters like Dave Tate occasionally reduce volume for a period of time. Tate has a workout in which he only works two exercises each day.
Are you saying low volume/frequency is useless for even short periods of time?
I can see if you are questioning this approach for a long term program, but for a short period of time any change in stimulus can be beneficial.
The bottom line: you know what works for you and it would be kind of silly to argue with you about what works for you, but for you to call the OLAD program a noob program is inaccurate.
You can believe what you want, but the OLAD can be used for different levels of lifters.
The fact that there are lifters on this thread that are not noobs singing the praises of the OLAD is proof enough. So all of these lifters that are not noobs don’t know what the hell they are talking about, not likely.
It’s not for you and I respect that, I personally like to try it from time to time when life/family takes up my time but I still want to workout. Peace.
[/quote]
using OLAD for a short in order to recuperate is one thing, but that coprroborates what i’ve been saying in this thread the whole time. i was arguing that an advanced lifter will make limited gains at best using this program.
using OLAD as a break time when outside obligations interfere with your lifting schedule is one thing, saying OLAD is a program that will provide solid strength and size gains to an advanced lifter is another.
i guarantee you if dave tate takes an ‘easy’ phase of training, he’s not doing anything like the OLAD outlined on this site.
first, the OLAD template given on this site cycles through too many exercises to really be of value. if a person was exclusively into bench competition, then OLAD might be customizable for him/her. but for the majority of trainees out there who have a solid foundation and are trying to balance strength and size, OLAD is a step backwards. OLAD is also a step backwards for an advanced bodybuilder or an advanced bodybuilder.
my beef with OLAD is that it doesn’t distribute the volume of training over the course of the week, rather, it puts the weight of the volume of one particular on one day.
i.e. all your bench training on monday, and not divided through the week on m, w, and f for example.
if you’re a noob, go for it. pressed for time? go for it. an advanced lifter who’s schedule allows for the kinda training volume you want and need? hellz no.
i hate to say it, but OLAD almost seems like one of those programs that tries to be different just for the sake of being different.
Huey, you squat 2-3 times a week and press 5-6 times a week?
I suspect the weights you work with are lighter than they could be.
8 weeks of OLAD would likely do you a world of good if you are interested in gaining strength instead of just focusing on frequency.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Let’s face it, Huey is a student, therefore he knows everything there is to know.
First off, I question anyone in ANY field, that claims to know more than an accomplished veteran like Dan John, let alone someone under the age of 50 who does so. We’ve all been there at some point (those of us over 30, anyway) where we had a knowledge base and assumed that anyone who learned otherwise, or that hasn’t had formal training, can’t teach us anything. Huey will probably come around at some point in his life and say, “you know, I was wrong about that.”
I’m done arguing with this guy on this point. Clearly, he knows that there is only one effective program for advanced lifters and none of us will change that. He needs more “life experience” in order to learn otherwise.
Good luck managing your hubris,
DB[/quote]
when did i say i knew more than dan john? all i’m saying is it’s a noob program. which it is. it’s also good for people who don’t have enough time to work out properly.
and you’re making a dumbass assumption in thinking i’m some arrogant elitist who thinks i know all there is to know about training. far from it. but i know what i know. and i know that OLAD is to little volume and too little frequency for me and other intermediate to advanced lifters.
and just because some people in here have replied that you can always increase the work volume per week… so what? i’m not into annihilating myself during my workouts. i train all types of compound movements virtually every day and it really wouldn’t make any sense to kill myself on bench if i’m doing military and dips the next day.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
first, the OLAD template given on this site cycles through too many exercises to really be of value.
my beef with OLAD is that it doesn’t distribute the volume of training over the course of the week, rather, it puts the weight of the volume of one particular on one day.
i hate to say it, but OLAD almost seems like one of those programs that tries to be different just for the sake of being different.[/quote]
These are three legitimate concerns. As far as exercise selection, the “original” OLAD (pre-T-Nation) was:
Monday: Snatch
Tuesday: Front Squat
Wednesday: Clean
Thursday: Jerk
Saturday: Light total… (i.e. Sn and Cl + J)
So, maybe yes, this is a Oly lifter’s specialization. And if you had three presses and two leg days, it would be a pressing specialization. Nothing wrong with that, right?
As far as distribution of load: yes, it is concentrated in one workout (for a lift … there would be distribution for muscles if you did say dips and military presses … tris get worked two different days; do that “Olympic” specialization and you’ll get P-chain and shoulders on most days). But, this concentration also allows A LOT of recovery time. Good for athletes (esp. in season) and good for older folks.
Is OLAD different? Yup. Is it different just to get attention? Well, there’s nothing for sale … so maybe Dan tried it (and he IS an advanced lifter, regardless of anything else … his brains, his coaching ability, his sports, his humor … Dan John --IS-- a VERY advanced strength athlete … and has been for many years) and found it successful and useful. Later, he was able to turn it into an article for T-Nation.
One other point, is that OLAD is meant to be used in conjunction with “play” (sports) … organized or otherwise … you’re supposed to be doing something else, also.
Regards,
Mark
To me, this whole thread is pointless, because the OP will not try OLAD and is not receptive to any reasoning as to why he should.
All you can do is agree to disagree.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
using OLAD for a short in order to recuperate is one thing, but that coprroborates what i’ve been saying in this thread the whole time. i was arguing that an advanced lifter will make limited gains at best using this program.
using OLAD as a break time when outside obligations interfere with your lifting schedule is one thing, saying OLAD is a program that will provide solid strength and size gains to an advanced lifter is another.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying now. Honestly, I am an intermediate lifter, not advanced, so I don’t know what kinds of gains this would produce for an advanced lifter.
True. The Dave Tate express template uses a different rep scheme.
One similiarity to the OLAD is that the Dave Tate Express is supposed to be done about 4 weeks. So it isn’t meant to be done as an ongoing program.
If the program is used for a long period of time, I agree with you.
I agree with this statement in the sense, that if I have optimal time, I would choose to do something else, something more comprehensive.
[quote]
i hate to say it, but OLAD almost seems like one of those programs that tries to be different just for the sake of being different.[/quote]
Maybe, I don’t know, but in this case the difference seems good to me.
frequency is a lot better for strength gains than NO frequency. and again, the amount of frequency you can handle depends on your level of conditioning.
if you’re a noob, lower body presses <not necessarily squats, mind you> 3+ times per week will fry you in no time.
i might squat 2-3 times per week, and maye do lunges 1-2 times in the same week on top of that. really depends on the week and what i can handle. like anyone else, i cycle my volume to maximize the amount of time i can spend in a training phase before i start overtraining.
anyways, OLAD might’ve been good for me 5 years ago.