Let's Process Our Feelings

Off Topic
821

Part Two:

Sooooooooooo…

How exactly does that get me laid?

Well, your competition is a horde of approval seeking boys in a mans body who have no identity on their own and wannabe alpha PUAs.

Yeah I know, some definition of alpha means having so many notches on your bed post that your bed breaks down while you hump two HB 9s, granted.

I would like to point out though that a legendary poster on this site, Pook, went the direct route, he cut the cord and tried to become the best man he could be.

Approach anxiety? Flaking? Text game? Nuclear rejections?

Would someone who has left the realm of women truly care?

I do not mean the puerile “I do not give a fuuuaaaark!!!” semi passive-aggressive rage, I mean, would an adult secure man who knows who he is and knows what he wants truly care?

Being open while being unperturbable, being vulnerable while having boundaries, there are your DHVs and USP and probably a whole host of other acronyms right there, the problem is though that you cannot fake it.

Finally, I think a lot of the rage against women on this site and others is well deserved and necessary to muster the mental energy to cut that cord, but once you have, you can return to women on your own terms and a lot of the meticulous rules and tactics that got you there no longer apply.

They were training wheels, cast them off.

822

[quote]orion wrote:
They were training wheels, cast them off. [/quote]

I do agree with this.

I mean, fake it until you make it and all that. You start out clueless, then you try something and get positive feedback, then you use that feedback to start over and reinvent/reevaluate yourself, and eventually make the thing that was “faked” a genuine part of who you are. What used to require effort becomes natural and genuine.

I will say it was a major breakthrough when I transitioned from “People act like Y around me” to “If I do X, then people act like Y, but if I do Z…” To realize how much control and influence you actually have on outcomes, and then learning how to make those behaviors natural and habitual.

It’s still a learning process for a lot of things, but the first step was realizing it could be done in the first place. Which I suppose is a fundamental distinction between the masculine and feminine attitude.

EDIT: Now that I reread this, I don’t know if I made sense because I wasn’t clear on what was being “faked”. I think there’s a lot of tricks and stuff in the PUA world that I don’t think actually fit into what I just said.

But body language, and really anything involved with how you project yourself (e.g., clothing, tone/speed of voice, eagerness to please, etc.)… that’s the stuff I was referring to.

823

Cabin fever is really starting to get to me.

My short bit of “vacationing at home” last week has now become “stranded at home” this week. My RWD car just can’t handle this snow, it’s been too cold to realistically walk anywhere I don’t need to (-40 windchill) and the nearby grocery store is out of milk, eggs and meat. The gym is in my garage, so there’s at least that. But still, a little over a week spent in the same place gets old.

824

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
They were training wheels, cast them off. [/quote]

I do agree with this.

I mean, fake it until you make it and all that. You start out clueless, then you try something and get positive feedback, then you use that feedback to start over and reinvent/reevaluate yourself, and eventually make the thing that was “faked” a genuine part of who you are. What used to require effort becomes natural and genuine.

I will say it was a major breakthrough when I transitioned from “People act like Y around me” to “If I do X, then people act like Y, but if I do Z…” To realize how much control and influence you actually have on outcomes, and then learning how to make those behaviors natural and habitual.

It’s still a learning process for a lot of things, but the first step was realizing it could be done in the first place. Which I suppose is a fundamental distinction between the masculine and feminine attitude.

EDIT: Now that I reread this, I don’t know if I made sense because I wasn’t clear on what was being “faked”. I think there’s a lot of tricks and stuff in the PUA world that I don’t think actually fit into what I just said.

But body language, and really anything involved with how you project yourself (e.g., clothing, tone/speed of voice, eagerness to please, etc.)… that’s the stuff I was referring to.[/quote]

See, what you describe is this:

Its not the spoon that bends its you.

But beyond it, there is this:

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.

825

[quote]orion wrote:
Part Two:

Sooooooooooo…

How exactly does that get me laid?

Well, your competition is a horde of approval seeking boys in a mans body who have no identity on their own and wannabe alpha PUAs.

Yeah I know, some definition of alpha means having so many notches on your bed post that your bed breaks down while you hump two HB 9s, granted.

I would like to point out though that a legendary poster on this site, Pook, went the direct route, he cut the cord and tried to become the best man he could be.

Approach anxiety? Flaking? Text game? Nuclear rejections?

Would someone who has left the realm of women truly care?

I do not mean the puerile “I do not give a fuuuaaaark!!!” semi passive-aggressive rage, I mean, would an adult secure man who knows who he is and knows what he wants truly care?

Being open while being unperturbable, being vulnerable while having boundaries, there are your DHVs and USP and probably a whole host of other acronyms right there, the problem is though that you cannot fake it.

Finally, I think a lot of the rage against women on this site and others is well deserved and necessary to muster the mental energy to cut that cord, but once you have, you can return to women on your own terms and a lot of the meticulous rules and tactics that got you there no longer apply.

They were training wheels, cast them off. [/quote]

Wow. I don’t agree with all of it, because as you know I believe you see the most zealous lunatic feminists as representing the whole group, but I like the training wheels metaphor.

I don’t know how many times I’ve said here that I don’t disagree that there is something to the techniques PUAs use. I was writing a book when I stumbled onto TNation and my romantic hero was a total PUA, though I’d never heard of it before. But he did all those things and the heroine responded well, obviously.

However, like training wheels, the Game mindset is ultimately limiting, and the Manosphere’s fear of women crippling. A woman who is whole and free and capable of love and passion along with devotion will recognize that the man isn’t riding a real bicycle. He’s not able to go as fast or as far. He’s limited by the training wheels.

826

Oh, I do not only despise the fanatics.

I despise the middle of the road feministas too.

Or maybe despise is not the right word, but they are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should have all the reproductive rights whereas men should only have the obligation of paying the next two decades if she so decides, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should receive a kind of affirmative action, discriminating against men, you are part of the problem.

If you believe in no fault divorce and perverse incentives to burden a man with as much alimony and child support as is possible, often more, you are part of the problem.

If you believe its ok to wax on endlessly about “deadbeat dads” when the single mothers who, in the overwhelming majority of cases, have kicked the fathers of the children out , are lauded as heroes, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that the level of proof required to accuse a young college student of rape or sexual assault and destroy his life should be less than that of a parking ticket, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that its a-ok to force a man into selective service but not a woman, part of the problem.

If you believe that it is fair for men to have to pay for the bastard spawn of AlphaMcRockbandDrummer, part of the problem.

Those are not extreme ideas, those are mainstream and I could do this all day.

827

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
A woman who is whole and free and capable of love and passion along with devotion will recognize that the man isn’t riding a real bicycle. He’s not able to go as fast or as far. He’s limited by the training wheels.

[/quote]

One wonders whether the remaining 10 or so are really worth the effort.

So far, the resounding answer sems to be no.

Be that as it may, you are not supposed to grow up to impress the wimmenz, in fact, its the opposite of what you should do.

828

[quote]orion wrote:
Oh, I do not only despise the fanatics.

I despise the middle of the road feministas too.

Or maybe despise is not the right word, but they are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should have all the reproductive rights whereas men should only have the obligation of paying the next two decades if she so decides, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should receive a kind of affirmative action, discriminating against men, you are part of the problem.

If you believe in no fault divorce and perverse incentives to burden a man with as much alimony and child support as is possible, often more, you are part of the problem.

If you believe its ok to wax on endlessly about “deadbeat dads” when the single mothers who, in the overwhelming majority of cases, have kicked the fathers of the children out , are lauded as heroes, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that the level of proof required to accuse a young college student of rape or sexual assault and destroy his life should be less than that of a parking ticket, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that its a-ok to force a man into selective service but not a woman, part of the problem.

If you believe that it is fair for men to have to pay for the bastard spawn of AlphaMcRockbandDrummer, part of the problem.

Those are not extreme ideas, those are mainstream and I could do this all day. [/quote]

No, none of those things are fair. You’re right.

829

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
A woman who is whole and free and capable of love and passion along with devotion will recognize that the man isn’t riding a real bicycle. He’s not able to go as fast or as far. He’s limited by the training wheels.

[/quote]

One wonders whether the remaining 10 or so are really worth the effort.

So far, the resounding answer sems to be no.

Be that as it may, you are not supposed to grow up to impress the wimmenz, in fact, its the opposite of what you should do. [/quote]

No, nor are women supposed to grow up to impress men. Once they’re each grown and good and secure in themselves, nice things should happen when they meet. Theoretically, anyway.

830

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You did good, Joe.

FWIW I read the first half of Iron John then misplaced the book. I think Bly gets a bit too deep or maybe I just get bored with the abstract but his basic underlying premise that you mentioned above is sound.

Society is not healthy and much of the reason why is for the fundamental reasons you mentioned.
[/quote]

Agreed.

I read Iron John like 23 years ago…thought it was really good at the time, but the only thing I can remember is him talking about falling asleep in a hotel when going to lose his virginity as he wasn’t ready and then waking up a few hours later and having at it. I’m thinking if I read it now I’d find him pretty whiney and drum-beatey…maybe let’s wear pajamas, drink cocoa and talk about male initiation rites.

831

I’m kind of nervous. I have an interview and a couple of tests starting at 1:00. The last ones I took went great and the hiring manager was very impressed, but that job was completed and it’s time for another.

I guess it’s an anxiety thing. When push comes to shove and I’m being evaluated I get nervous. Rationally I shouldn’t be. The last tests were for structural and boiler codes and they passed x-ray and mechanical bend examination perfectly. These ones aren’t going to be scrutinized nearly as much.

It’s me I’m not sure of. The presentation of myself. Just throwing that out there to vent a little.

It’s also a pain in the butt to get myself and kid ready, drop off at the sitter, and find my way to a strange new place. I’m not sure that the car will start either (had to jump it already once this morning).

832

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I don’t disagree that there is something to the techniques PUAs use. [/quote]

I read The Game by Neil Straus when it came out…I guess I was like 35…I found a lot of the stuff he was talking about basic common sense, but it was stuff I wish I would have realized back when I was 18…the biggest eye opener was how girls/women receive TONS of advice as they’re growing up on how to attract men…from magazines in the grocery store checkout lines to mothers/aunts/grandmothers/friends while boys/men receive pretty much zero…to this day there’s nothing out there to help boys/men…the PUA seminars might qualify, but they all seem pretty creepy.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
However, like training wheels, the Game mindset is ultimately limiting, and the Manosphere’s fear of women crippling. [/quote]

If you keep your Game mindset up and running Front Stage 24/7 I’d have to say you’re not suitable for taking off the training wheels…I do think it is ok to keep Game in mind when living in a happy, healthy, committed relationship…the basic Game ideas that you should be interesting, make yourself as presentable as possible and not put the pussy on a pedestal are sound values.

833

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m kind of nervous. I have an interview and a couple of tests starting at 1:00. The last ones I took went great and the hiring manager was very impressed, but that job was completed and it’s time for another.

I guess it’s an anxiety thing. When push comes to shove and I’m being evaluated I get nervous. Rationally I shouldn’t be. The last tests were for structural and boiler codes and they passed x-ray and mechanical bend examination perfectly. These ones aren’t going to be scrutinized nearly as much.

It’s me I’m not sure of. The presentation of myself. Just throwing that out there to vent a little.

It’s also a pain in the butt to get myself and kid ready, drop off at the sitter, and find my way to a strange new place. I’m not sure that the car will start either (had to jump it already once this morning).

[/quote]

Good luck. Hope it all goes well.

834

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m kind of nervous. I have an interview and a couple of tests starting at 1:00. The last ones I took went great and the hiring manager was very impressed, but that job was completed and it’s time for another.

I guess it’s an anxiety thing. When push comes to shove and I’m being evaluated I get nervous. Rationally I shouldn’t be. The last tests were for structural and boiler codes and they passed x-ray and mechanical bend examination perfectly. These ones aren’t going to be scrutinized nearly as much.

It’s me I’m not sure of. The presentation of myself. Just throwing that out there to vent a little.

It’s also a pain in the butt to get myself and kid ready, drop off at the sitter, and find my way to a strange new place. I’m not sure that the car will start either (had to jump it already once this morning).

[/quote]

Good luck. Hope it all goes well.[/quote]
x2 from the future.

835

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m kind of nervous. I have an interview and a couple of tests starting at 1:00. The last ones I took went great and the hiring manager was very impressed, but that job was completed and it’s time for another.

I guess it’s an anxiety thing. When push comes to shove and I’m being evaluated I get nervous. Rationally I shouldn’t be. The last tests were for structural and boiler codes and they passed x-ray and mechanical bend examination perfectly. These ones aren’t going to be scrutinized nearly as much.

It’s me I’m not sure of. The presentation of myself. Just throwing that out there to vent a little.

It’s also a pain in the butt to get myself and kid ready, drop off at the sitter, and find my way to a strange new place. I’m not sure that the car will start either (had to jump it already once this morning).

[/quote]

Good luck. Hope it all goes well.[/quote]
x2 from the future.[/quote]

Thanks guys.
It went really well from what I can tell. He was really laid back, liked my experience with aluminum which fits well with future plans for production, and we even had a good laugh about one of my previous employers. It was by far the easiest test I’ve ever done and we did a nice tour of the shop, talked about our kids and generally everything was really upbeat. One cardinal sin that I hope he either didn’t notice or didn’t care about was that I was wearing running shoes instead of protective footwear. The likely hood of getting my clock cleaned by a giant steel plate is minimal too, because there aren’t any giant steel plates.

I’ll find out for sure on Friday.

836

Skyz, good luck! I wanted to say so earlier, but I was slammed at work and didn’t have time to log in from my phone. They’ll be lucky to have you on their team. :slight_smile:

837

[quote]sen say wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

However, like training wheels, the Game mindset is ultimately limiting, and the Manosphere’s fear of women crippling. [/quote]

If you keep your Game mindset up and running Front Stage 24/7 I’d have to say you’re not suitable for taking off the training wheels…I do think it is ok to keep Game in mind when living in a happy, healthy, committed relationship…the basic Game ideas that you should be interesting, make yourself as presentable as possible and not put the pussy on a pedestal are sound values.[/quote]

I agree with this, and especially the last part. When I was in my teens my father, a misogynist (possibly misanthrope) said that you could always tell when one of the women at the office was getting a divorce because all of a sudden she’d start losing weight and change her hairstyle. He said “Maybe if they’d done that while they were married they wouldn’t have gotten divorced.”

I think it’s entirely true, but not just for women. You should treat each other like you did when you were dating and infatuated, but better, because now you know each other better and have built something together. And certainly you should take care of yourself. I don’t understand how that’s not self-evident to everyone.

839

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m kind of nervous. I have an interview and a couple of tests starting at 1:00. The last ones I took went great and the hiring manager was very impressed, but that job was completed and it’s time for another.

I guess it’s an anxiety thing. When push comes to shove and I’m being evaluated I get nervous. Rationally I shouldn’t be. The last tests were for structural and boiler codes and they passed x-ray and mechanical bend examination perfectly. These ones aren’t going to be scrutinized nearly as much.

It’s me I’m not sure of. The presentation of myself. Just throwing that out there to vent a little.

It’s also a pain in the butt to get myself and kid ready, drop off at the sitter, and find my way to a strange new place. I’m not sure that the car will start either (had to jump it already once this morning).

[/quote]

Good luck. Hope it all goes well.[/quote]
x2 from the future.[/quote]

Thanks guys.
It went really well from what I can tell. He was really laid back, liked my experience with aluminum which fits well with future plans for production, and we even had a good laugh about one of my previous employers. It was by far the easiest test I’ve ever done and we did a nice tour of the shop, talked about our kids and generally everything was really upbeat. One cardinal sin that I hope he either didn’t notice or didn’t care about was that I was wearing running shoes instead of protective footwear. The likely hood of getting my clock cleaned by a giant steel plate is minimal too, because there aren’t any giant steel plates.

I’ll find out for sure on Friday.

[/quote]

It’s become pretty clear (at least to me) that you are rarely going to have anything to worry about in such situations.

The only issue seems to be your ability to believe that.

Not at all a criticism; I am sometimes that way myself.

But I thought that hearing it from a neutral party might help you a little with getting over it.
[/quote]

Make that two neutral parties, because I think so, too.

840

[quote]orion wrote:
Oh, I do not only despise the fanatics.

I despise the middle of the road feministas too.

Or maybe despise is not the right word, but they are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should have all the reproductive rights whereas men should only have the obligation of paying the next two decades if she so decides, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that women should receive a kind of affirmative action, discriminating against men, you are part of the problem.

If you believe in no fault divorce and perverse incentives to burden a man with as much alimony and child support as is possible, often more, you are part of the problem.

If you believe its ok to wax on endlessly about “deadbeat dads” when the single mothers who, in the overwhelming majority of cases, have kicked the fathers of the children out , are lauded as heroes, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that the level of proof required to accuse a young college student of rape or sexual assault and destroy his life should be less than that of a parking ticket, you are part of the problem.

If you believe that its a-ok to force a man into selective service but not a woman, part of the problem.

If you believe that it is fair for men to have to pay for the bastard spawn of AlphaMcRockbandDrummer, part of the problem.

Those are not extreme ideas, those are mainstream and I could do this all day. [/quote]

I’m not a feminist, at least I don’t think I am lol. I did grow up with my single parent mother.

On the reproductive rights thing. I’ll say that if when you get married you are the bread winner and aim to keep your wife as a stay at home care giver for the kids, and then you go and stick your dick in some other woman after the kids are born, you should have to pay child support. If she were the worker and made the money, then none should be paid, unless you were cheated on as a stay at home dad. It’s more about who’s out there with the skill sets to make money and the home life was set up in such a way that one parent was at home. Saying this as someone who’s mother had very few skills, AND brought home less of a paycheck because of her sex. I got no child support, but we really could have used it.

I’ve also seen men kicked out because they beat their sons. I lived next to this, so I agree but if the parent is being abusive towards anyone in the household and it cant be worked out, or if its beyond being worked out as in the beatings then…? I’m talking throwing teenage boys down stairs and some pretty hard core bruising from being gripped hard and pinched hard by a grown ass man, as well as beatings, seldom but there were beatings that ended up being bruised faces and some light bloody noses. They were some crazy neighbors, by themselves they would do the same with the boxing gloves but they would get beaten sometimes as well.

As far as the rape stuff. I know what it’s like to be accused of sleeping with another mans woman without having done it. It took a long time for me to clear my name but the rumor followed me (several years), but I finally did but the reputation follows me to a degree. I’ve never slept with a friends woman or even ex (that I know of) because not having sex already caused me a lot of drama, I can only imagine what it would be like being accused of rape… Sex and anything involved with sex sticks on you like pit stains on a white tee. I think people should be punished for false accusations of rape. But not so much that people are afraid to report it.

Selective services? Yeah, I don’t think women should have to. :S I’m kinda old fashioned about that. You just don’t want to be around people that don’t want to be there period.