Legit 405lbs x 20 Squats?

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]shogunassassin wrote:
Is anyone else consistently amazed at the fact that no one believes other people can actually move a decent amount of weight in the gym? 405 for 20 is doable for anyone with a squat in the mid 500s, in my opinion.

Even if someone did post a vid of 405 for 20, half of you fags would complain about their depth, while the other half would accuse them of everything from fake plates to time lapse photography.[/quote]

Thank you and amen.
This is why T-Nation is slowly eroding into Fitness-Nation.
Nothing like shootin’ for the freakin’ stars in terms of training goals.

62

[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:

I do not believe anybody could do 600x30 however. To me that is basically a 900 lb raw squat coupled with excellent endurance so that is either impossible or at the very limits of what we can do, IMO. Captain K did a tough set of like 600x8 or so raw, I forget the actual reps, on his video on his way of doing 1000x2 in full gear. He might have had 15 or maybe even 20 but not 30 reps like that.[/quote]

Most people don’t believe it… It seems the only ones who do are the ones that know Dr. Ken personally.

Their training was specific to very high reps, I don’t think comparing it to a 1-rep max applies as well as it would to most competitive lifters. I very much doubt Tolbert could squat 900 pounds raw, and I’ve read Dr. Ken stating his one rep max was never much higher than his 20 rep squats. They trained for high reps; they were good at high reps.

63

Some info on Dr. Ken / Kevin Tolbert (some of it directly from Dr. Ken):

http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/10933/post/258067/hl/"Tolbert"/#258067

You guys can decide for yourselves, but he’s been around a long time and is one of the most well-respected guys out there.

64

[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
405x20 IMO would be possible certainly, I believe I saw a video of somebody do 495x20 with good form. However to do that I think you would need a 600 lb raw squat which is exceptionally rare especially if it is done with good depth. Not impossible certainly, but very rare.

My best is 345x20 and when I did that I could raw squat 515-525 or so and I am decent at reps. My training partner did 385x20 and he did a raw squat of 565, so you need a 6 plate + raw squat to do that.

Assuming Dr. Ken’s weights were real, he actually did 415 since the collars are 5 lbs each on that one.

I do not believe anybody could do 600x30 however. To me that is basically a 900 lb raw squat coupled with excellent endurance so that is either impossible or at the very limits of what we can do, IMO.

Captain K did a tough set of like 600x8 or so raw, I forget the actual reps, on his video on his way of doing 1000x2 in full gear. He might have had 15 or maybe even 20 but not 30 reps like that.[/quote]

There is no formula to plug these numbers into. Throw in the armoring effect of support gear and your numbers are even more “apples and oranges”.

You certainly don’t need “excellent endurance” in the classic sense, just practice high-rep squats. As usual here, way too much analysis attempting to debunk reality.

I know when I did 405x23, I think my one-rep max WITHOUT support gear was around 600-640. Perhaps on T-Nation a 600lb squat is rare, but in PL comps, they’re very common in the 198 and 220lb classes. I know that doesn’t fit some formula, but it is reality.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but hate to see so many here act like a 400lb squat or whatever is in the realm of superhuman steroid freaks. What ever happened to effort, hard work and setting your sights high??

65

[quote]sandiego wrote:
Some info on Dr. Ken / Kevin Tolbert (some of it directly from Dr. Ken):

http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/10933/post/258067/hl/"Tolbert"/#258067

You guys can decide for yourselves, but he’s been around a long time and is one of the most well-respected guys out there.[/quote]

if he is so strong he would have competed, never head of him doing a competetion to show that he is indeed the real deal. I’ll be skeptical until I see some more proof. There is no way he did 600x 30 also thats just impossible raw or geared.

66

[quote]shizen wrote:
if he is so strong he would have competed [/quote]

Says you.

He trained for football, and never had any interest in competitive lifting. Later went on to coach in football (Michigan, NFL)…

I don’t think people understand how specialized this kind of training is, and how the gap closes between your 1-rep max vs. “x” number of reps as a percentage, especially when you consider these guys rarely ever did 1-rep maxes.

Had he been a powerlifter (and clearly, he was not), I don’t think he necessarily would have been anything special.

But again, most people don’t believe 600x30 is possible, because most elite guys that can handle 750x1, 800x1, etc specialize in that skill, not in the high rep stuff.

There just aren’t many guys at that level exclusively focusing on high rep squatting.

67

[quote]sandiego wrote:
shizen wrote:
if he is so strong he would have competed

Says you.

He trained for football, and never had any interest in competitive lifting. Later went on to coach in football (Michigan, NFL)…

I don’t think people understand how specialized this kind of training is, and how the gap closes between your 1-rep max vs. “x” number of reps as a percentage, especially when you consider these guys rarely ever did 1-rep maxes.

Had he been a powerlifter (and clearly, he was not), I don’t think he necessarily would have been anything special.

But again, most people don’t believe 600x30 is possible, because most elite guys that can handle 750x1, 800x1, etc specialize in that skill, not in the high rep stuff.

There just aren’t many guys at that level exclusively focusing on high rep squatting.
[/quote]

thats just the bullshit he says, obviously it works since you believe it. When even the best bodybuilders in the world-who are very strong, and specialize in high reps- can not even get close to that # and are much heavier then it is utter bullshit.

He says he was like 160 repping 600lbs 30 times, that is so far out there you would need some pretty hardcore proof for anyone to believe that.

68

[quote]shizen wrote:
thats just the bullshit he says, obviously it works since you believe it. When even the best bodybuilders in the world-who are very strong, and specialize in high reps- can not even get close to that # and are much heavier then it is utter bullshit.

He says he was like 160 repping 600lbs 30 times, that is so far out there you would need some pretty hardcore proof for anyone to believe that.
[/quote]

No… you’ve got them confused.

Dr. Ken weighed 160ish pounds when he squatted 407x23 reps, at a height of like 5’7", in his early 50’s. There’s a photo of him on the net somewhere weighing a solid 230 pounds in his younger days.

Kevin Tolbert weighed, at his peak, 268 pounds, at a height of 5’9", and peaked at 600x30 in the full squat.

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[quote]Radjxf wrote:
There is no formula to plug these numbers into. Throw in the armoring effect of support gear and your numbers are even more “apples and oranges”.

You certainly don’t need “excellent endurance” in the classic sense, just practice high-rep squats. As usual here, way too much analysis attempting to debunk reality.

I know when I did 405x23, I think my one-rep max WITHOUT support gear was around 600-640. Perhaps on T-Nation a 600lb squat is rare, but in PL comps, they’re very common in the 198 and 220lb classes. I know that doesn’t fit some formula, but it is reality.

I’m not trying to be argumentative, but hate to see so many here act like a 400lb squat or whatever is in the realm of superhuman steroid freaks. What ever happened to effort, hard work and setting your sights high??
[/quote]

There is indeed a general formula to estimate how much weight you can lift. It is perfect, no? Is it relatively close as in within 20-30 lbs, almost always.

You happened to do 405x23, that is an awesome set. Interesting that you did the exact same weight and reps as Dr Ken. And give yourself some more credit, a 600-640 raw squat is excellent and it is not common in PL competitions raw.

For example, in 2007 2 198’ers squatted 600 exactly (the best two squats of the year) and 3 people did over 600 in the 220’s, (605 was the max) in all of 2007. So it is possible, absolutely, it is common even in powerlifting, definitely not. You are good if you can do it in single ply gear at that bodyweight, you are great if you can do it raw.

No one is saying a 400 lb squat is rare, but for 20 reps that is a big difference. To be done by a 50 year old man that is 165 lbs continues to add to the level of rarity to the lift.

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[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
There is indeed a general formula to estimate how much weight you can lift. It is perfect, no? Is it relatively close as in within 20-30 lbs, almost always.
[/quote]

It works if you are a powerlifter, i.e. someone who regularly trains to lift a max poundage.

Someone who specializes in high reps won’t fit into that framework very well.

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To avoid any more confusion, this is the guy that squatted 600x30 (or didn’t, depending on who is reading it).

Kevin Tolbert, former Strength & Conditioning Assistant Coach to the Michigan Wolverines, now in the NFL (I believe) since the coaching change at UofM.

Per Dr. Ken Leistner, Kevin squatted 600x30 once, as a peak performance, followed by SLDL off a block with over 400 pounds for reps. He DID NOT do this regularly, it was a one time thing. For safety reasons, they’d have him do leg presses just prior to limit his squat to 500 for reps.

He was not a powerlifter, did not train like a powerlifter, and did not aim to squat the largest poundage ever. They had different goals, and specialized in very high reps, since he was 12 years old. He got as big as 268 pounds at a height of 5’9".

72

[quote]sandiego wrote:
To avoid any more confusion, this is the guy that squatted 600x30 (or didn’t, depending on who is reading it).
[/quote]

Needs a little work on the biceps.

This guy should wear sneakers on his hands!

73

I’ve done 352lbs x 20 below parallel (with a max box squat of 595lbs x 2). I think 405lbs x 20 should be possible, perhaps later this year when I’ve stopped cutting weight.

74

Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

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[quote]ftlty wrote:
Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

Pretty much anybody could have easily done that if they used time lapse photography and fake plates like that guy.

edit: not to mention all the steroids

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[quote]colin1168 wrote:
ftlty wrote:
Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

Pretty much anybody could have easily done that if they used time lapse photography and fake plates like that guy.

edit: not to mention all the steroids
[/quote]

I wish I knew if you were being serious or not. Maybe you meant to add a :^) or something.

77

Marco Banco (perhaps better known as Traditional Sodomizer of the Goddess of Perversity) claims to have done 405x20 with belt and wraps at around 260 pounds when all his training was with high reps.

Dan John once did 300 for “I think 43, but it could have been more”.

78

[quote]colin1168 wrote:
ftlty wrote:
Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

Pretty much anybody could have easily done that if they used time lapse photography and fake plates like that guy.

edit: not to mention all the steroids

[/quote]

If you’re being serious, fuck off.

79

[quote]Revo09 wrote:
colin1168 wrote:
ftlty wrote:
Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

Pretty much anybody could have easily done that if they used time lapse photography and fake plates like that guy.

edit: not to mention all the steroids

If you’re being serious, fuck off.[/quote]

I actually found it hilarious. It was commented on the thread a few posts behind.

80

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Revo09 wrote:
colin1168 wrote:
ftlty wrote:
Jeese Marunde 407 x 20 ATG raw squat

Pretty much anybody could have easily done that if they used time lapse photography and fake plates like that guy.

edit: not to mention all the steroids

If you’re being serious, fuck off.

I actually found it hilarious. It was commented on the thread a few posts behind.[/quote]

Ah, should have read the entire thread. colin1168, I apologize.