Sure. It also has essentially no place in a rational discussion of US domestic policy in regards to healthcare. Of course it’s a default right wing talking point which is why you hear about it so often and why you jumped to it.
How was either before X(whatever you guys are discussing)? That would seem at least somewhat relevant.
Immigration has happened in this country frequently since its inception. Europeans coming to Ellis Island were viewed negatively by many Americans who were already here. People didn’t want a bunch of poor people coming over here (sound familiar?). What’d we have over 4 million from Ireland alone in the middle of the 19th century? Asian immigration was also viewed negatively by many. Same stuff wrong religions, competition for jobs, etc. Yet do our railroads get built nearly as quickly without it? Does the North win the civil war? A million other examples.
It’d be very very difficult to argue that America would be the superpower it is today without immigration. I’d say impossible but who knows. We would have huge implications if we took out all illegal immigrants today to say nothing of legal ones currently coming in. We don’t really have any evidence that these jobs would be done without them. If you think regular joe Americans are lining up for these jobs you’re sadly mistaken. We can’t even fill all the higher paying way easier jobs we currently have. It would take an economic collapse for these jobs to be desirable by the average Joes. The idea that everything ends as the white majority goes down isn’t accurate and it’s typically delivered by racists who think things tend to be a bit better the less brown or black is here.
Sure no problem in studying it. People have been saying forever the US would fail just like Rome. Not only has it not happened I’d like to think our strongest argument against immigration wasn’t hey look at this place from forever ago which has few things in common with us. You’ve got to do some serious mental gymnastics in my mind to say the US will fall like Rome did unless you’re simply trying to say all empires fall eventually. To me this has nothing to do with immigration.
Do you feel more or less wedded to your idea than mine? I don’t feel as if you’ve really painted a picture of why all the sudden at this point in the US’s history immigration is suddenly horrible and will lead to the downfall of the nation.
Well I was not aware of that, and I was not referring to socialized medicine. I was referring to how the country went from OK to absolute shit within a few years. Medicine alone didn’t cause it, and I don’t oppose socialized medicine either.
No, you are an Antifa sympathizer.
I’m not struggling with anything, I just have a different point of view. The US has freedom of speech, if right wing assholes want to wave swastikas and shout whatever racist slogans then they are free to do so. If a group twice a large as them attacks and end up becoming the victims, that’s on them. It’s just a bunch of idiots fighting as far as I’m concerned. Rather than protesting they would have been better off documenting what the right wingers were doing. Instead they start shit and it’s all Nazi, Nazi, white supremacist but they call everyone that so a lot of people don’t take them seriously. Myself included.
My knowledge of US politics is limited by the fact that I pay limited attention to US politics. I live in Canada, and the rest of the world is just as relevant to me as what happens in the US.
Perhaps if the mainstream media wasn’t so hysterically anti-Trump then I could take them more seriously.
If there is a takeaway for me from this discussion it is that American politics are totally fucked. I thought maybe there was some hope for a future with the right, but it looks less and less likely. RIP America.
Yes I read far right stuff like this:
I never heard anyone talk about Venezuela with regards to US healthcare until this thread. Anyone who thinks healthcare is responsible for their problems is seriously confused.
I see. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that Venezuela is brought up by the right and you just happened to pinpoint that country for some reason. Just weird luck I guess.
Not in the least bit and you can’t come to the conclusion I support violence from any of my posts. Again please try and read a little better it will save us all time.
Well for the limited attention you pay you sure seem to know and say all the things far right websites say. Maybe that’s just my view from down here though.
Actually you were the one who brought up Venezuela. You said free healthcare/tuition would put the US on a path towards Venezuela. So I guess the first time you heard someone talk about it was this thread when you talked about it by yourself. Again all a coincidence I’m sure.
I have been fascinated with Venezuela ever since I went there. I was looking at going back to Margarita Island a couple years later but there were no direct flights anymore and barely any to Caracas either, at that time nothing was being reported in the news about Venezuela but after doing some research and reading a bunch of Spanish articles I found out that the country had suddenly plunged into crime and chaos. Later in 2008 is when things were supposed to have started to get real bad, and tourists were being robbed, killed, and held hostage. So ever since then I was interested to see what was going on there since it was a drastic change from what I saw when I visited. The only person I ever saw there behaving in any sort of aggressive manner was a cop at roadblock who was doing some sort of cowboy walk with a shotgun in one hand, looking like he would be more than happy to shoot someone. Now it’s the most violent country in the world, and the economy it totally fucked. That is why I mention Venezuela.
No but you make excuses for Antifa and try to rationalize their behavior. Someone doing the same thing with Nazis would be called a Nazi sympathizer.
Or maybe a lot of it is common sense stuff. Also here in Canada the only political violence I hear of is done by left wingers, they often try to shut down various events and attacked people attending one of Maxime Bernier’s campaign events. Also Trudeau called an old lady a racist for criticizing his open border and refugee policies, then had her arrested. That is state sanctioned left wing violence. Left wingers are vandalizing statues and monuments, I don’t see right wingers doing that. Maybe the right is extra stupid in the US, but that’s not my country and they also have freedom of speech.
You are misinterpreting what I said. And yes it is a coincidence, I was not aware of that being a common talking point. Why would I lie about that when I’m not opposed to socialised health care?
Here let me help you again.
But are there any right wing groups engaging in acts of political violence? I just googled (just for you) “canada right wing violence” and no incidents of any attacks come up on the first 3 pages. I know there are right wing assholes out there, but they are a small minority. The Liberal government and the further-left NDP are a more imminent threat.
There was one mentally disturbed individual who shot up a mosque in Quebec City, but that again that is one person and doesn’t reflect on right wingers as a whole any more than all the terrorist attacks by Muslims reflect on Muslims as a whole. And there have been several in Canada, including one guy who killed a soldier and then died in a shootout in the Parliament buildings.
Left wing politicians advocating violence:
Oddly this is the only article on this that comes up.
Well your government is spending millions of dollars on it. I’m trying to figure out why when a right winger kills someone it’s dismissed as just a lone nut meanwhile transsexual bathroom attacks that are far less likely than death by lightning are a huge concern of yours.
It’s not just the potential for attacks, but the fact that women are not comfortable with a man in a dress in their bathroom. Would you subject your mother, sister, wife, daughter, etc. to that in the name of political correctness? You must be into trannies.
And how come you have nothing to say about the NDP lady wanting to blow up gun owners? Silence is an act of complicity.
All of them don’t give a shit. In fact they are all for it with the exception of my daughter who is 4 and doesn’t care. They’ve probably pissed by them before just like you. I’m not into trannies they seem to be on your mind as a huge concern. On the list of issues I worry about the genitals of the person in the stall next to me is about as low as it goes. You seem to be quite scared of it. Are you currently asking each person just to make sure they aren’t a transsexual waiting to pounce? Surely you’re at least trying to peek for your own safety.
Just a lone nut. I thought we needed a minimum of 40 people at a time to care? She sounds like a fucking idiot.
Just a candidate for one of the main political parties.
You are the one who brought them up this time.
As far as I’m concerned it’s just nonsense that wouldn’t be an issue if not for the left wing. They want people to accept all sorts of abnormal behavior, this is just one example.
Women in the mens bathroom pose no threat to me, I don’t care. But it’s not unreasonable for women to be uncomfortable with men in their bathroom. You may not agree, but it’s a valid point of view. You can’t dictate to people when the can or cant feel uncomfortable.
I didn’t misinterpret you said the US is on a path towards Venezuela if that happens. Open borders/free health care/free tuition. Maybe you’re not even aware of it being a talking point because you’ve only consumed right wing websites? Just crazy how you landed on that one country which is the one all right wingers land on like it jumped to the front of your brain and none of the successful European countries with similar systems.
Weird coincidences.
You don’t have a moments hesitation being ok with what our President says when it comes to violence. Why should I with one of yours? And ours isn’t a candidate it’s the highest person in power. It’s just strange to me that this is high on your list of concerns but if a person on the right says it it’s dismissed by you. Wonder why such a double standard for you yet again.
Does Venezuela have free tuition? If they do I never heard of it, and they certainly don’t have open borders. For the last time, I mentioned Venezuela because it is the most economically fucked up country in the world at the moment, I don’t know why you want to go on and on about it. If you open the borders up to everyone and give free stuff to them and everyone in the country then obviously things are going to end badly, it doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. But you still don’t see it.
Successful European countries overwhelmed with refugees, single male refugees. Germany even had to close their borders at one point (in contravention of EU law) because more than a million came in a few weeks. Sounds like a real success story to me.
Why does this always come back to you trying to make me defend Trump? I don’t like Trump at all. But I also don’t hear of him or any other right wing politicians calling for law abiding citizens to be murdered.
Lol so it doesn’t have two of the things you mentioned as issues anyways. Fucking unreal dude. If the US does a few things Venezuela doesn’t it will end up like them! Perhaps you should do even a smidgen of research before posting. Just give it a try one time. I believe in you.