For those proficient in their muay thai/stand-up striking…how are you most comfortable executing lead leg low kicks to inside thigh from conventional stance?? What I mean is…do you feel comfortable taking the turn-step with rear leg or just pivoting on rear leg without the step?
Or does it just depend on the timing/range to determine which is better option?? Also,do you use it aggressively…OR exclusively to counter…such as countering the jab?
All ideas,thoughts,and experiences are welcome. Thanks.
quick switch or just from stance… if you’re not heavy footed and you’re constantly moving (more like boxing less like muay thai) you can launch it from anywhere
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
quick switch or just from stance… if you’re not heavy footed and you’re constantly moving (more like boxing less like muay thai) you can launch it from anywhere [/quote]
Gotcha. Now,have you had success using it to counter…say someone proficient with their jab…?
When I learned to throw that kick, I learned to take a step, not just pivot. Keep in mind though that I also studied karate for a while, and they were HUGE on taking the step as opposed to pivoting, so even if I hadn’t been taught like that I may have done it anyway because of my background.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
When I learned to throw that kick, I learned to take a step, not just pivot. Keep in mind though that I also studied karate for a while, and they were HUGE on taking the step as opposed to pivoting, so even if I hadn’t been taught like that I may have done it anyway because of my background.
[/quote]
Cool. So how did you feel when you put it to practice during sparring,etc?
I fight MMA and i come from karate, i feel much more confortable taking a little step sideway, i prefer changing stances when i’m going for a more powerful kick. for a counter it’s good way to keep that jab at bay.
Although i’m left handed, so normally i don’t change stance when front kicking against a jab
Personally, against a jab i lean back a little bit, or off to the side a bit… I REALLY emphasize the shoulder roll (to protect my chin) when I kick (also gives me more hip turnover)… slightly more savate-style lead leg inside kick. Con of really shoulder rolling the kick or the slight leans is that you’re more open for takedowns but a Pro is that you’re better defended for strikes.
So it all depends on your opponent’s strategy. It’s all about timing the lead leg kick right but usually I’m pretty successful with it especially if the guy puts a lot of weight on his lead leg when does throws the kick. I like to get somewhere near jab range and either circle out or just step back and as your opponent steps in to jab or to just follow you right as his foot hits the ground boom inside leg kick his VMO muscle/knee.
If you time it right it’ll send them straight to the ground like a sweep almost. Also if you have the flexibility this works for the lead leg head kick as well. Give the illusion that you’re not in range, then because YOUR footwork controls the range, move out properly and put your shin on his fucking neck. I like to throw a high lead leg kick after a throw a right hand. Reason being if I hit the guy flush, if I hit his guard, or even if he just moves away… I know my right hand has enough power that he’s going to be moving AWAY from it.
Well that eliminates the range I like to throw my lead hook in (I prefer to throw it really tight) so my lead leg kick meets my opponent as he’s moving out of range either by his own will or mine. FYI, A nice stiff right to the body sets it up better because a right to the face usually sets his guard up high. Of course you can do vice versa and body kick instead of headkick as well. Shift the fuckers ribs for him.
Sidebar: I’ve noticed lately in mma that a lot of guys (and a lot of coaches have been teaching this i’m assuming) just prefer to put their weight on their leg and take the kick. Mind you they time it with stepping into the ranger at the proper time before the kick really develops power… but regardless if I know that’s your strategy for defending the kick then I’m going to time it and DESTROY your leg the moment you put weight on it.
If it’s light in the air I can’t do much about it, but if you put weight on it then it’s like hitting the heavy bag to me and I can really just go off on it. I’ve seen guys teach to just take the kick and it makes no sense to me… if you try and “take” my kick -point blank- I’m breaking your femur.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
For those proficient in their muay thai/stand-up striking…how are you most comfortable executing lead leg low kicks to inside thigh from conventional stance?? What I mean is…do you feel comfortable taking the turn-step with rear leg or just pivoting on rear leg without the step?
Or does it just depend on the timing/range to determine which is better option?? Also,do you use it aggressively…OR exclusively to counter…such as countering the jab?
All ideas,thoughts,and experiences are welcome. Thanks.
[/quote]
hmm…i don’t step with my lead leg leg-kick unless i’m tired and throwing sloppy…usually as i throw the kick, i rotate my hips and plant on the ball of my rear foot. i also “sit down” a little, too, which is the kick i think to Thai kicks, as far as increasing the power…
hope that makes sense.
btw, i throw it the same offensively vs defensively…
I’m a bit heavy on my feet (bad habits die hard), so I use this kick to restrict my opponent’s movement. As he’s circling I’ll use it to stop his feet, then close the distance and try to work punches. If the kick lands solidly he’s usually flat-footed and not as able to slip a punch. Sometimes the leg even gets kicked out from under him, but I wouldn’t count on it.
I don’t step into the kick, I just pivot and rotate my hips into it, but as I said before I’m not the lightest on my feet.
I share Xen Nova’s feelings on “taking” kicks, why would you do that? Even if you’re not getting knocked off your feet, you’re still subjecting yourself to punishment you could have otherwise avoided. It makes no sense. If you’re crazy / suicidal, or it’s late and you need a KO, I can see stepping into one to try to get off a knockout punch, but other than that it’s not much brighter than “taking” body shots just because you think you can.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
When I learned to throw that kick, I learned to take a step, not just pivot. Keep in mind though that I also studied karate for a while, and they were HUGE on taking the step as opposed to pivoting, so even if I hadn’t been taught like that I may have done it anyway because of my background.
[/quote]
Cool. So how did you feel when you put it to practice during sparring,etc?
[/quote]
Less awkward than trying to pivot… but I’m not much of a kicker in the first place. Short legs, better hands.
For me it depends. I use the inside leg kick in several different ways.
Most often to start a combo. For the combo I throw (inside leg kick, straight right, left hook or uppercut, straight right) I switch stance and throw it with authority. Reason being, if the guy is fast and can dodge it I want to come spinning back to my stance, if not then I throw him off balance, unable to move and I can hit him with some shots.
For points or pissing people off. I’ve got some friends who have less reacher but fast hands, and they like to sit inside my range for kicks and when I throw they come in. So to bait them, or piss them off, I will just flick it out, turn the hip, and pivot on my rear foot. Puts enough power to get 'em backing off, or pissed.
For most people I would suggest taking that step. Especially if they’re just learning, it really helps with the concept of angles, and turning your hips into your punches (if you follow with a combo).
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Personally, against a jab i lean back a little bit, or off to the side a bit… I REALLY emphasize the shoulder roll (to protect my chin) when I kick (also gives me more hip turnover)… slightly more savate-style lead leg inside kick. Con of really shoulder rolling the kick or the slight leans is that you’re more open for takedowns but a Pro is that you’re better defended for strikes.
[/quote]
Yes. I am very strict about turning the hip over. I know that when my hip is turned over…my shoulder is turned over giving me extra protection…AND I’m off the center-line of punches.
I always throw people off with lead leg head kick. Mainly because when people look at me,they don’t expect it…AND I’m flexible. I usually throw it after right hand with switch step…but have been experiencing with throwing after a little “fake jab”…since people are always concerned with my jab. I’ve also had success with going with good jab-to “fake” right hand(using it to push if I need to clear space)-left head kick. Almost in a Peter Aerts fashion. But I assume for most that you need to be really flexible to get your hip turned and shin to come down at that range.
[quote]
Well that eliminates the range I like to throw my lead hook in (I prefer to throw it really tight) so my lead leg kick meets my opponent as he’s moving out of range either by his own will or mine. FYI, A nice stiff right to the body sets it up better because a right to the face usually sets his guard up high. Of course you can do vice versa and body kick instead of headkick as well. Shift the fuckers ribs for him.
Sidebar: I’ve noticed lately in mma that a lot of guys (and a lot of coaches have been teaching this i’m assuming) just prefer to put their weight on their leg and take the kick. Mind you they time it with stepping into the ranger at the proper time before the kick really develops power… but regardless if I know that’s your strategy for defending the kick then I’m going to time it and DESTROY your leg the moment you put weight on it.
If it’s light in the air I can’t do much about it, but if you put weight on it then it’s like hitting the heavy bag to me and I can really just go off on it. I’ve seen guys teach to just take the kick and it makes no sense to me… if you try and “take” my kick -point blank- I’m breaking your femur.[/quote]
LOL. Well said…nobody is “eating” my kicks…I got too much ass behind them. I never take kicks like that if I can help it. IMO,you should be balanced in the first place to properly defend.
I could see taking the kick from someone who doesn’t turn the hip or pivot very well. But why risk making it easier for them to feel you out and eventually fuck up your leg?? I don’t get it either. Also going with MMA…what’s up with guys telegraphing their kicks so much?
^When this happened…I said “Damn,Gonzanga fucked up that kick.” Would most agree??
First of all,he lazily set it up with his hands leaving himself open. Second,when he took his step…he stepped too deep with it and didn’t give himself a good angle.
Also,I think Dos Santos was expecting him to go low with that kick.
For most people I would suggest taking that step. Especially if they’re just learning, it really helps with the concept of angles, and turning your hips into your punches (if you follow with a combo). [/quote]
Good deal. I’ve been working with beginners to really understand those key points. Most beginners have a bad habit of reaching with kicks…and teaching them to just pivot reinforces it even more. That is,until they develop the proper timing/range to just pivot off rear foot.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
just pivoting on rear leg without the step?
Or does it just depend on the timing/range to determine which is better option?? Also,do you use it aggressively…OR exclusively to counter…such as countering the jab?
All ideas,thoughts,and experiences are welcome. Thanks.
[/quote]
my last smoker, I threw more of these than jabs. I love this kick. I use it as a lead and a counter. Some say I use it a little too much when I spar MT, but in MMA, I use it sparingly depending on how much my partner wants to shoot. Its great to use against bullies cause it messes with their timing. Counter fighters, I use it a little different. Against counter punchers, I use it to set up my punches. I know that seems backwards, but it works for the first round or two. But I dont always throw it at the inside leg, I throw it to the body and head as well. I think its very effective as a way to throw your opponent off rhythm and pepper them with strikes. Its by no means a KO shot.
For most people I would suggest taking that step. Especially if they’re just learning, it really helps with the concept of angles, and turning your hips into your punches (if you follow with a combo). [/quote]
Good deal. I’ve been working with beginners to really understand those key points. Most beginners have a bad habit of reaching with kicks…and teaching them to just pivot reinforces it even more. That is,until they develop the proper timing/range to just pivot off rear foot. [/quote]
I think it’s great you’re teaching them this! When I worked with my guys over the summer (most of whom had much more thai experience than me) this is what they lacked. I think in pure thai boxing it is over looked. Most guys would rather stand in front of each other and cover or bang. Hope this board helps, and keep up the good work Boss!
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
^When this happened…I said “Damn,Gonzanga fucked up that kick.” Would most agree??
First of all,he lazily set it up with his hands leaving himself open. Second,when he took his step…he stepped too deep with it and didn’t give himself a good angle.
Also,I think Dos Santos was expecting him to go low with that kick.[/quote]
Gonzaga suffers from the “LOOK MOMMY NOW I AM STRIKER” syndrome. It usually means that they don’t focus on their strong points which obviously aren’t their striking and they think they will entertain people with that crappy striking.
Also suffering from this syndrome is: Josh Koscheck, Sean Sherk, Fabricio Werdum and recently Demian Maia. Hell even Matt Hughes did the ULTIMATE STRIKING MATCH with Renzo these days.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Gonzaga suffers from the “LOOK MOMMY NOW I AM STRIKER” syndrome. It usually means that they don’t focus on their strong points which obviously aren’t their striking and they think they will entertain people with that crappy striking.
Also suffering from this syndrome is: Josh Koscheck, Sean Sherk, Fabricio Werdum and recently Demian Maia. Hell even Matt Hughes did the ULTIMATE STRIKING MATCH with Renzo these days.[/quote]
LOL. I don’t know much about the rest of those cats, but Sherk DEFINITELY has that.
Little short limbed guy with mediocre power that wants to box everyone in an MMA match. It’s laughable.
For most people I would suggest taking that step. Especially if they’re just learning, it really helps with the concept of angles, and turning your hips into your punches (if you follow with a combo). [/quote]
Good deal. I’ve been working with beginners to really understand those key points. Most beginners have a bad habit of reaching with kicks…and teaching them to just pivot reinforces it even more. That is,until they develop the proper timing/range to just pivot off rear foot. [/quote]
I think it’s great you’re teaching them this! When I worked with my guys over the summer (most of whom had much more thai experience than me) this is what they lacked. I think in pure thai boxing it is over looked. Most guys would rather stand in front of each other and cover or bang. Hope this board helps, and keep up the good work Boss![/quote]
Thanks,bro. My coach is all about the small details in technique…and I’ve become the same. Why bother with people if all they want to do is brawl?? You don’t need muay thai instruction for that.
For most people I would suggest taking that step. Especially if they’re just learning, it really helps with the concept of angles, and turning your hips into your punches (if you follow with a combo). [/quote]
Good deal. I’ve been working with beginners to really understand those key points. Most beginners have a bad habit of reaching with kicks…and teaching them to just pivot reinforces it even more. That is,until they develop the proper timing/range to just pivot off rear foot. [/quote]
I think it’s great you’re teaching them this! When I worked with my guys over the summer (most of whom had much more thai experience than me) this is what they lacked. I think in pure thai boxing it is over looked. Most guys would rather stand in front of each other and cover or bang. Hope this board helps, and keep up the good work Boss![/quote]
Thanks,bro. My coach is all about the small details in technique…and I’ve become the same. Why bother with people if all they want to do is brawl?? You don’t need muay thai instruction for that. [/quote]
While I understand and agree with this statement, what about the counter argument that gross motor skills are all that is retained when tired and under extreme stress and that techniques should be made as simple and devoid of nuance as possible?
