Lats Endurance

Training Bodybuilding
1

Well, I have none.

In my 20 rep squats program, I switched up the other bodypart exercises. One of them, was 5x5 weighted chins. I started with 40lbs hanging, and at the end of the program, I could use 50 lbs for the last two sets.

Since then, I tried to vary set/rep schemes. My problem is, even with no weight hanging from me, I can hardly do 10 chins.

Is it normal that I’d be able to chins with that much weight, but can hardly do 10 with my own bodyweight?

Anyone got any ideas on how to improve other than using the lat pull down machine?

2

keep trying, visualize that you will bust the 10 rep barrier prior to your set… if your convinced that you cannot bust more than 10 reps, your right

3

Your lats are not really involved as much as they could be, this is prob the problem. I had this same problem I could do weighted chins but I couldnt even do lat pulldowns while I was really feeling the lats do the work.

Also my lats were not responding growth wise the way I would expect if they had been doing the work. So what I did was ditch the chins and started back up with really light lat pulldowns keeping my shoulders totally depressed and really feeling the lats do the work.

I have since built back up to doing strict chins with weight. The key is lat strength. You have to keep your shoulders down and out of the movement if you are going to recruit the lats optimally.

4

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Well, I have none.

In my 20 rep squats program, I switched up the other bodypart exercises. One of them, was 5x5 weighted chins. I started with 40lbs hanging, and at the end of the program, I could use 50 lbs for the last two sets.

Since then, I tried to vary set/rep schemes. My problem is, even with no weight hanging from me, I can hardly do 10 chins.

Is it normal that I’d be able to chins with that much weight, but can hardly do 10 with my own bodyweight?

Anyone got any ideas on how to improve other than using the lat pull down machine?[/quote]

Pyramids. They help build endurance. If you want endurance, then stop concentrating on strength (i.e., weighting your body down), and start working on volume that your muscles can handle.

This is the same as comparing a sprint to a marathon run. What you are asking is the same as a sprinter asking:

I can run the 100m faster, but I can still can barely run half a marathon. What’s wrong?

5

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Your lats are not really involved as much as they could be, this is prob the problem. I had this same problem I could do weighted chins but I couldnt even do lat pulldowns while I was really feeling the lats do the work.

You have to keep your shoulders down and out of the movement if you are going to recruit the lats optimally.[/quote]

No, I know my lats are whats moving me. I do dead hang chins and get my chin all the way up over the bar and do my best to contract my lats as hard as I can at the top of the movement, a la CT.

My lats are sore whether I do weighted chins, or BW chins… so I know they’re working. I also initiate the actual pullup by using my lats to ‘shrug’ my body up first, before my arms bend.

Oh, and I dont use any body english, if that makes a difference. Perhaps, I should until I can start doing more strict chins? Or will that just crutch the problem and ultimately cause more in the long run?

6

Are you really that oblivious? To build endurance in your Lats, do PULLUPS. With chin-ups, your biceps are put into quite a bit of use. With pull-ups and other mixed grips, your lats are called in more. Also, try mixed grips, close grip, wide grips, et cetera.

7

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Are you really that oblivious? To build endurance in your Lats, do PULLUPS. With chin-ups, your biceps are put into quite a bit of use. With pull-ups and other mixed grips, your lats are called in more. Also, try mixed grips, close grip, wide grips, et cetera. [/quote]

I was going to say, why aren’t you doing pullups instead?

Doing something like GTG worked well for me, doing weighted pullups on my workout days, then doing 5x5 on my days off.

After two weeks I could do more pullups than I ever have been. I’ve gotten to the point now where I can do 12 consecutively, and 3 with a 35# on me.

8

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Well, I have none.

In my 20 rep squats program, I switched up the other bodypart exercises. One of them, was 5x5 weighted chins. I started with 40lbs hanging, and at the end of the program, I could use 50 lbs for the last two sets.

Since then, I tried to vary set/rep schemes. My problem is, even with no weight hanging from me, I can hardly do 10 chins.

Is it normal that I’d be able to chins with that much weight, but can hardly do 10 with my own bodyweight?

Anyone got any ideas on how to improve other than using the lat pull down machine?[/quote]

Your problem is an easy one to solve. Basically your lats are strong but have poor muscular endurance. Start using ladders. Basically you go up in reps each set then start over again before hitting muscular failure.

Lets say you can get 8 chins with bodyweight. You would do something like this:

2,4,6,2,4,6,2,4,6,2,4 stop because you know you could not get 6 on the next set.

By the way this is not somehting i have just made up, i read it in an article by Pavel. Apparently its not unusal to double your rep count in around 2 months training this way. Ladders enable you to get a lot more reps than straight sets. And train more frequently because your never hitting failure( you always have a couple of reps in the bag). Try it

ps. pyramids are no the same thing and will not be as effective because they promote fatigue, whereas ladders do not!

9

[quote]tweaker wrote:
rrjc5488 wrote:
Well, I have none.

In my 20 rep squats program, I switched up the other bodypart exercises. One of them, was 5x5 weighted chins. I started with 40lbs hanging, and at the end of the program, I could use 50 lbs for the last two sets.

Since then, I tried to vary set/rep schemes. My problem is, even with no weight hanging from me, I can hardly do 10 chins.

Is it normal that I’d be able to chins with that much weight, but can hardly do 10 with my own bodyweight?

Anyone got any ideas on how to improve other than using the lat pull down machine?

Pyramids. They help build endurance. If you want endurance, then stop concentrating on strength (i.e., weighting your body down), and start working on volume that your muscles can handle.

This is the same as comparing a sprint to a marathon run. What you are asking is the same as a sprinter asking:

I can run the 100m faster, but I can still can barely run half a marathon. What’s wrong?
[/quote]

Ladders are far superior to pyramids

10

You just gotta keep training hard and addig volume when you can. With time, conditioning will come. As you get better and better, you’ll be able to perform more sets per workout, more reps per set, use shorter rest times between sets, and perform similar exercises more frequently per week.

As was said earlier by Evil Ryu, though, wide-grip overhand chins place a greater strain on your lats than medium/cose-grip underhand chins, which share the workload between the lats and the biceps.

Hope that helps.

11

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Are you really that oblivious? To build endurance in your Lats, do PULLUPS. With chin-ups, your biceps are put into quite a bit of use. With pull-ups and other mixed grips, your lats are called in more. Also, try mixed grips, close grip, wide grips, et cetera. [/quote]

Well, I guess I should have mentioned I have the same problems with pullups. And I usually rotate between chins and pulls.

12

I was in the same boat. I feel that the pyramids and ladders are the best way to go. Dragondoor.com and Clarenace bass’s websites have some articles on the use of these “geasing the groove” type priciples.

They seem to increase pullup numbers for a whole lot of people that have to do them (military PT tests).

13

While I don’t really have a solution to your ‘problem’ rrjc, I’m in the same boat, and don’t personally find it a concern.

With an additional 90 pounds, I can get 10 good chins. With just my bodyweight of 270, I can get maybe 16 or 17. I always figured the difference would be greater than that, but, well, it’s not.

Doesn’t really make a difference to me. My back development/strength is one of the best areas on my body, and if you want to go the “functional/real-world” route: If I’m hanging off the edge of a cliff, I can’t imagine that I’m going to be doing as many chinning reps as I can, I’m just going to pull my ass up there.