Last Chance Saloon for 47 yr Old

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

Was asked not to post on someone else’s topic and set-up one of my own so here I am. I am 47 years old, 2 years into some serious training after years of on/off, sort of training, sort of not. Woke up one morning aged 45 and thought, shit, if I want a kick-ass physique I better start doing something about it now…before things start dropping off!

I started on a whole body routine, 3 times a week, then went upper/lower body, then a 3-days split. Gained some muscle, lost some fat - basically gained a good base. Now want some mass. Stats are:

Height 5’10
Weight 160lbs
BF 13-15% (calculated)

Want to get to 170lbs (lean) by end of May. I figure keep eating loads and training 4x a week 'til I get to 180lbs then cut some carbs/fat and come back down to 170lbs - hopefully not losing too much muscle.

Have started on 5-3-1. Week 1 went well, but, Easter has fucked me right up! Family staying so can’t get away to train easily, have had two goes at completing week 2. Aim to start week 2 again this week. Will post up my routine in next few days.

In meantime if any of you more experienced lifters have any good advice of how I can achieve my immediate goal, and whether it is realistic, I would be grateful. Cheers.

2

Welcome ! Good luck on your goals.

3

10 lbs of muscle gain by the end of May might be pushing it a bit, but what do I know? I’ve found when I try to force muscle gain I just get fat and have had better success gaining slower while staying leaner.

Fortunately for you there’s currently some highly informative threads in bigger, stronger, leaner discussing the finer points of both the dirty and clean bulk…NOT!

Seriously, don’t read them. They’ll rot your brain.

Best of luck with your goals and welcome.

4

Not to rain on your parade (because I love your enthusiasm and commitment), but I have to second what FarmerBrett said above. Gaining 10# of muscle in a year would be a fantastic accomplishment for an ‘unassisted’ lifter who (like you) is already past the ‘newb gains’ stage.

Here is a well-written article re gaining muscle mass vs fat:

5

Thank you eyedentist very interesting article. I guess I need to rethink my eating strategy and be more patient. I can see why guys drift to the 'dark side’though!

So as regards training at my age, I regard myself as being pretty fit. I can train 4 x a week, but, should I train that often given recovery takes longer as you get older? I try to keep the workouts to 1 hour max. I am using 5-3-1 at the moment that requires 4 workouts a week - so that is what I am doing.

Any advice you can offer as regards training frequency/volume would be appreciated. Cheers.

6

Yeah, the Dark Side has its appeal. But (as I remind myself frequently), at our age, we have to consider whether we are one of the unlucky few who harbor an occult prostate malignancy that might respond aggressively to supranormal levels of circulating anabolic substances…And the appeal rapidly fades away. Not to mention my wife would KILL me if she caught me juicing (she already thinks it’s ridiculous that I work out and diet so fervently).

Re frequency of training ‘at your age,’ I would suggest a simple rule-of-thumb: If you are getting stronger, you are not overtraining. I’m not terribly familiar with 5/3/1 (because I have the genetic potential to be the Worst Powerlifter in History), but am given to understand that it’s very programmatic; ie, there’s a predetermined series of target weights/reps you’re supposed to hit every workout. I’d say that, so long as you’re hitting these benchmarks, no worries vis a vis overtraining. (As an aside, I would add that I work upper body every other day, so I’m a fan of frequency myself.)

7

Eyedentist, again thank you for your input. My wife would be the same! As you say, she already thinks I’m having a mid-life crisis and have gone completely mad, especially, as she goes off to bed around 10pm, which I when I head off out to my garage gym…which brings me onto another topic - Training Timing.

I have read a lot about when is the optimum time to train. It seems there are those that say, it is between 11am and 2pm, but, there are others that say it does not matter because your body adapts so as to use the nutrients when they are available.

I eat throughout the day, have a last proper meal around 7pm, then train from 10pm to 11pm. I then have protein shake, and go straight to bed. My body is exhausted and so I have no trouble sleeping! I figure that this should be no different to training at say, 11am, as over the whole 24-hr period the intake is the same and the training is the same. The reason I do train late is because my job means that most days I don’t get home until 6.30-7pm and we have a family meal around 7.15/7.30. I don’t want to be anti-social and I have to let the food digest, so 10pm training time ticks all the boxes.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I losing out by training so late in the day, or, should I try to find a way to switch it so that I train before eating? Again, your input/experience would be appreciated.

8

Hi davidp, I’m of the opinion that the time-of-day at which one trains is a minor factor (if a factor at all) with regards to making progress. Some authors advocate for late-afternoon training (and against AM training) because the hormonal milieu is theoretically more favorable at that time (ie, the testosterone-to-cortisol ratio is higher then). That said, I’ve never heard/read where anyone has contended it was all that significant. IMHO, the time to train is 1) when one’s energy levels are good, and 2) when it will be least irritating to one’s wife. Those are the guidelines I follow, anyway…

9

Hi David, I just wanted to add my encouragement to this thread. Great goals and great attitude.

I’m 49 and just restarted working out with weights this week. I snapped my achilles last December and it’s been a long road. But I’ve always kept a decent level of fitness and strength so I know that I’ll get back there soon. And the truth (as I see it) is that an old man’s attitude and persistance will often outstrip a young man’s lack of focus and metabolic advantages.

As you can tell, I prefer to look at the advantages of age rather than disadvantages. Which you seem to do also.

Fortunately, the woman in my life has the same attitude, so I’d be making excuses if I wasn’t working out and building strength.

Good luck with your goals.

10

Hi Magma, many thanks and good luck with your goals too.

Got back to it last night following being derailed over Easter:

Routine follows the weight target formulae as per 5-3-1 (week 2 of 4 week cycle).
All weights stated in kg (x 2.205 for lbs)

Shoulders (4 sets of 5 reps - last 2 to failure):
OHP - 32,36,40,40
Standing Lateral raise - 7,8,9,9
Shrugs (barbell) - 42, 48, 54, 54

Biceps (4 sets of 8 reps - last 2 to failure):
Hammer curl - 11, 13, 14, 14
Concentration curl - 11, 13, 14, 14
EZ-bar preacher curl - 22, 26, 29, 29

Standing calf raise - 4 sets of 15/20 reps with 40kg on EZ-bar held at waist level

Weighted (10kg) Crunch - 3 sets of 20 reps

Any comments welcomed.

Back and triceps tonight will post that routine when done.

11

Hi David

I’m not sure what passes for ‘experience’ around here, but you ask for any comments, so here goes: Your goals are definitely about increased mass, but the workout you just described seems to work small rather than large muscles.

I mean, you’ve got 3 (or is that 4?) workouts on the biceps alone. Perhaps you mean mass in certain specific areas, but surely a ‘back to basics’ Squat and Deadlift based routine would be better for you a la Mark Rippetoe etc?

I don’t know what stage you are at in your program, or how many weeks/months you have been working on it, so you can, of course, totally ignore me if I’ve missed something.

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Hi Magma. Thanks. As I said in op, I am 2 years into some serious training and, yes, now want mass. I was doing a traditional 4-day split, but, while I was getting defined, I did not feel I was growing. I read an article on 5-3-1 workouts which at its foundation has the 4 core lifts i.e. OHP, DL, BP, Squat. Its designed to build strength, but, I thought it would work for mass too - by definition, to get stronger your muscles have to get bigger - surely? You do 4 workouts a week and each workout starts with one of the core lifts. To each workout you add ‘accessory’ exercises, and these can be what you want - I believe! The important bit is the core lift.

Maybe I should be doing 3 workouts a week, each workout incorporating all 4 core lifts? I don’t know - could result in over-training? I am only into week 2 of a 4 week cycle so I think I will carry on and see where I get to before changing it up again.

Tonight I did:
Weights in Kg
Back (4 sets of 5 reps, last 2 to failure)

Deadlift - 56,64,72,72
Pull Down - 43,48,55,55
T-Bar row - 42,48,54,54

Triceps (4 sets of 12 reps, last 2 to failure)

EZ-bar close grip bench press - 28,32,36,36
superset with
Bench dips - bodyweight
Push down - 15,18,18,18

Abs

Bicycles - 3 x 40
superset with
V-ups - 3 x 20

Again, any comments welcomed.

13

Hi again. Sorry I somehow overlooked the bit where you said you were 2 years in to serious training. But if that’s the case, why are you only deadlifting 72kg and overhead pressing 40kg and failing on them? Or have I misunderstood something?

I’ve been immobile for 4 months and only just started lifting again, and I’ve started at about 10kg lighter than those weights. And they feel light and I’m only a week in. If you’re looking to build mass then you need to be going much heavier, surely.

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I know, these do seem light…laugh it up! The problem is that I do not properly know my 1RM for these lifts as I’ve always based the weight on doing 10 reps, increasing the weight, doing 10 more reps, if I fail, dropping the weight and grind out as many reps to failure - for a total of 4 sets for each exercise. I used an online calculator, where you can punch in your 10RM and it calculates 1RM. Either the calculation was bollocks or I understated my 10RM!!

For 5-3-1 week number 2, the sets are based on 70%,80%,90%,90% of 90% of 1RM (so the base weight is 90% of 1RM and not 1RM) i.e. doing the math, the 72kg deadlift is representative of a 90kg 1RM - I have never tested my 1RM on this lift but, yes, I probably could do more and therefore the base weight is too light. Wendler says 90% of 1RM should be around a your 4RM. The idea is not to go up to 1RM, but, stay short of it as Wendler reckons this leads to better strength gains - and therefore muscle - because you get a greater amount of reps done.

I started deadlifting 2 years ago and struggled on 50kg (wtf - you say!). Call it bad technique but I hurt my lower back and stopped deadlifting to concentrate on squats - thinking deadlifts were solely a leg exercise (lol!). Last week I squatted 122kg for 8 reps - I did not fail. I figure my 1RM is at least 2x bodyweight i.e. over 300lbs. I figure that is quite good?

I am hoping that by the end of this 4-week cycle I will have a better idea of my 1RM on all lifts - in particular the core ones - and then I will adjust the calculations accordingly. But, I must say that I do feel like the programme is working for me; today my arms, lats, delts and traps feel and look full, even though I am probably not hitting as much weight I could handle. It makes me excited to think what will happen when I do crank it up!

Anyway, thanks for your input - thought provoking which is why I started this post.

Rest day today, golf tomorrow, so next workout is Sunday when Bench Press is the core exercise. Will post that routine after. Please don’t laugh!!

15

[quote]Magma wrote:
Hi again. Sorry I somehow overlooked the bit where you said you were 2 years in to serious training. But if that’s the case, why are you only deadlifting 72kg and overhead pressing 40kg and failing on them? Or have I misunderstood something?

I’ve been immobile for 4 months and only just started lifting again, and I’ve started at about 10kg lighter than those weights. And they feel light and I’m only a week in. If you’re looking to build mass then you need to be going much heavier, surely.

[/quote]

Heavy is relative.

This comes over as a bit condescending.

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[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Heavy is relative.

This comes over as a bit condescending.[/quote]

I apologise if it does. That wasn’t my intention.

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Hi, David.

Regarding time of day to work out: one can be quite refreshed and strong in the morning. However, after a good workout, I eat a solid meal (which you want especially if you want to gain weight). Afterwards, I get good and drowsy and want nothing more than a nap. So workout in late afternoon seems to work best for me. If I do it early in the morning, I take the chance of being useless for the rest of the day.

18

Some of my posts never make it to the forum - why? (moderator?) There is nothing contentious in them - posts like the foregoing! Most annoying!

Anyway, Sunday I did:
Weights=kg
Chest:

Bench press - 42,48,54,54
Decline db press - 14,16,18,18
Incline db flyes - 12,14,15,15

Db calf raises - 4 sets of 15 reps with 20kg in each hand.

Decline sit-ups - 3 sets of 20 reps holding a 10kg plate.

And, Monday I did:
Weights=kg
Legs:

Squats - 95,108,122,122
Leg press - 105,120,135,135
Leg curl - 25,29,32,32
SLDL - 42,48,54,54
D/B calf raises - 4 sets of 15 reps with 20kg in each hand.

Side bends - 3 sets of 15 (on each side) with 20kg db.

And last night, was:
Weights=kg
Shoulders:

O/h press - 34,38,43,43
Lateral raise - 11,12,13,13
Shrug - 53,60,67,67

Biceps:

Hammer curl - 14,15,17,17
Conc. curl - 14,15,17,17
EZ preach. curl - 27,31,34,34

Abs:

10k crunch - 3 sets of 20reps with 10kg plate.

That’s all folks!

19

Hey David,

I wouldn’t worry too much about time of day, or anything like that…I got back to working out about 7 years ago (then 35) and wasted 4-5 years constantly worried about all the ‘advanced’ stuff they put on T-Nation…I cut out benching and curls because i read on here they were bad…lots of other stuff…last couple of years I’ve said eff it, I’m doing what I like in the gym 3 days a week and eating pretty clean. I’m much happier and my results have been better.

Don’t get me wrong, I think this site is fantastic, but don’t lose sleep worrying if 10 pm is better than 10 am.

Also, spend the 20 bucks and buy Wendler’s 5/3/1 ebook if you haven’t already. It’s well worth it.

20

Now in deloading week on first cycle of 5-3-1 (the original version). Well pleased with results. Have not gained a huge amount of weight - maybe a few pounds - seems to go up and down day by day - but, again, not by huge amounts. I always weigh myself first thing, sometimes it says 160, other days 157, 158, 159…seems to depend on my calorie and water intake the previous day…which is logical I suppose. Finding it hard to reach the calorie goal, at the same time avoiding too much fat.

I have set a goal of 2700 calories, so if I am short by 400-500, I find myself a pound or so down in weight the next morning. But, definitely now more “in-tune” with my bodies requirement and finding the science of it all really interesting. Any tips on getting those extra calories in - easily? I have read that a pint of semi-skimmed milk is a good/easy way to fill the gap - is that right? I am hitting my protein levels with the help of whey shakes (x2 a day) so its really good carbs that are easy to take on board that I need.

As for the musculature effects of 5-3-1, although I have not gained a huge amount of weight, I must have lost fat, and gained muscle because I do look like I lift weights (IMHO). My legs/calves are definitely thicker, arms fuller, shoulder/traps have grown and gained definition. Chest is thicker, but, the best bit is my Lats…I am growing proper full “wings”!! My Lats have a always been quite good, but, they are now more visible toward the bottom of my back, and at the top I have developed much more of a spread - not quite Arnie yet though!

Can’t wait to see the results after 2nd cycle and hoping that scales will start to read upwards of 160.