Lagging Arms

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
how come around my body I’m progressing at such a strong rate, but particularly in my arms it’s at such a low rate? Does it have to do with anything about my wingspan?[/quote]

You have to consider that progress will be in proportion to size of muscle group. If say you can add 2kg (sorry, I’m British) to your bench press every week, you couldn’t expect to add 2kg to each dumbbell (if you use them). Also, with low rep ranges (like 6 or under), every rep is like worth twice the rep progression in the higher rep range. Say for example you progressed from 6 reps to 7 reps, that’s like jumping from 10 reps to 12 reps in the higher rep range.

So when I said do higher reps for the arms (e.g. 10-12), it’s not just so that it targets different muscle fibres, but also because the progression is more PROGRESSIVE. That is, it’s far easier to get another rep in the 10-12 rep range, than it is to get another rep in the 6-8 rep range. That’s using the rep progression method (rather than just load progression method where the reps per set stay the same)…this is superior for arms because like I said the progression is more progressive/gradual which is needed for a small/weaker muscle group.

If you just decide to add say 2-5lbs to your curling/arm pushing exercises, and stick to just 6 reps per set, then if you’re muscles haven’t adapted to that load yet, you will just get a failed lift (and little progression).

So, next step (besides making sure over-all strength is going up…which it seems to be) is to increase rep range and switch to training arms directly about twice a week.

One little note just incase…in the past my arms never grew much due to “overstimulation”, I was training loads of upper body exercises 2-3 times per week, and then training arms AT THE END of a hard training session - this will hinder arm growth. Try to train them as fresh as possible and bear in mind the accumulated fatigue caused by upper exercises like pulling/pressing movements.

62

[quote]gregron wrote:
I stopped reading after the first page of this thread but all I hear from the Op is “EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES.” You are not like your avatar says “lean n big” You’re not big at 175ish pounds at 5’11"… That is small.

Just stop posting so many excuses, start eating as much food as you can get your hands on and check back in a year. You have 20 inch legs and a 40 inch chest and are worried about adding inches to your arms? Come on maaaaaaaan

.greg.[/quote]

Then you must be illiterate. Learn to read. I’ve never said any of this as an excuse, I’m simply stating where I’m starting from. Where did you start from?

As for the see food diet, already did that. Perhaps if you learned how to read, you would’ve come across that. I’m stating that yes, perhaps I started a little worse off then most individuals here, but irregardless of that–I can gain muscle.

Yet when someone says low testosterone on boards like this, it’s immeaditly pinpointed as an excuse. Where am I stating it as an excuse? I’m simply stating that you may have started at 165 @ 10% body fat. I had to start at 150 @ 10% body fat. That’s it. So when my first real bulk goes to work and I’m 173lbs, take in recollection that I’m starting a little a bit behind.

63

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
how come around my body I’m progressing at such a strong rate, but particularly in my arms it’s at such a low rate? Does it have to do with anything about my wingspan?[/quote]

You have to consider that progress will be in proportion to size of muscle group. If say you can add 2kg (sorry, I’m British) to your bench press every week, you couldn’t expect to add 2kg to each dumbbell (if you use them). Also, with low rep ranges (like 6 or under), every rep is like worth twice the rep progression in the higher rep range. Say for example you progressed from 6 reps to 7 reps, that’s like jumping from 10 reps to 12 reps in the higher rep range.

So when I said do higher reps for the arms (e.g. 10-12), it’s not just so that it targets different muscle fibres, but also because the progression is more PROGRESSIVE. That is, it’s far easier to get another rep in the 10-12 rep range, than it is to get another rep in the 6-8 rep range. That’s using the rep progression method (rather than just load progression method where the reps per set stay the same)…this is superior for arms because like I said the progression is more progressive/gradual which is needed for a small/weaker muscle group.

If you just decide to add say 2-5lbs to your curling/arm pushing exercises, and stick to just 6 reps per set, then if you’re muscles haven’t adapted to that load yet, you will just get a failed lift (and little progression).

So, next step (besides making sure over-all strength is going up…which it seems to be) is to increase rep range and switch to training arms directly about twice a week.

One little note just incase…in the past my arms never grew much due to “overstimulation”, I was training loads of upper body exercises 2-3 times per week, and then training arms AT THE END of a hard training session - this will hinder arm growth. Try to train them as fresh as possible and bear in mind the accumulated fatigue caused by upper exercises like pulling/pressing movements.[/quote]

Right, perhaps, I should try out a day for just arms?

I generally do biceps at the end of pull day and triceps at the end of push day.

I go Push-Off-Pull-Off-Legs repeat. Push has bicep work, pull has tricep work.

64

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
I go Push-Off-Pull-Off-Legs repeat.
[/quote]

I think you’ve handicapped yourself thinking this way. I started off thinking like this and it quickly became apparent that the P/P/L mindset is not optimal for bodybuilding. That’s my experience.

Just think about the title of your thread. Think in terms of bodyparts, not movements. Fuck if curls are ‘push’ or ‘pull’-- it’s BICEPS. Curls for biceps on BICEPS day (or arm day, or whatever).

65

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
I go Push-Off-Pull-Off-Legs repeat.
[/quote]

I think you’ve handicapped yourself thinking this way. I started off thinking like this and it quickly became apparent that the P/P/L mindset is not optimal for bodybuilding. That’s my experience.

Just think about the title of your thread. Think in terms of bodyparts, not movements. Fuck if curls are ‘push’ or ‘pull’-- it’s BICEPS. Curls for biceps on BICEPS day (or arm day, or whatever).[/quote]

True. I’ll switch it up.

Perhaps to a normal split of

Back
Chest
Legs
Shoulders
Arms

66

well I was in the process of compiling a super quote of all your excuses and there were a lot but I accidentally closed the wrong browser and lost my entire post and I dont care enough to go back through and quote them all again because there were over 10 and I hadnt even gotten through the second page.

Heres what I see… You’re young. You’re only 19 and have a long way to go. You act like you’ve read and tried all these methods and they arent working for you because you have low T and high cortisol levels and cant lose belly fat.

You havent been lifting weights long enough of consistently enough to even know those things. Just get on a program and stick with it for 6-9 months then see what happens.

When I started I was 5’9" and 145… started lifting weights and playing highschool football and ended 5’11" and 170… So I started out really small just like you. You just need to lift weights consistently for a few years and then see whats up

.greg.

67

And by the way, there are 5 other arm related threads on the front page of the bodybuilding forum and 2-3 general training threads which undoubtedly cover arm training.

68

We are supposed to train arms? wtf…

69

I am confused as to how this hit 3 pages and is still going.

He’s asking how to fix “lagging bodyparts” after twelve weeks of weights. His response to every helpful poster so far has been an excuse of some kind and ignoring their (good) advice.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
Professor X and even the other guy couldn’t fathom my low measurements. I had to explain why.
[/quote]

I’m 20 years older than you with lower test than you, went from fatass 242 to 170 then worked in the gym back up to 250ish (adding almost 5" to my arms) in 2.5 years, all while maintaining a career where I travel a lot, a band (and side producing gig), a multi-child family, and a major fly-fishing and yardwork addiction.

I apologize if I’m callous to non-extreme hormonal excuses, food excuses, and diet excuses. I’m just a beginner here.

Honestly, this reeks of “didn’t work hard in the gym”.[/quote]
This should have been /thread.

Lock please.

70

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
Going to cut to the chase here. My arms are lagging, I’m 5 foot 11 but have a 6 foot 5 wingspan.

Diet: It’s on key because strength is improving; shoulders, back, chest, legs, etc. ALL improve EXCEPT arms. Significant improvements too; 40 pounds on bench, 30 pounds on military press, etc.

Training for Arms: Once every 5 days. I rotate between two; one that’s 1-2 exercises, low reps, heavy weight looking to increase intensity every time & one that’s 2-3 exercises, moderate reps, moderate weight looking to increase reps every time.

The first has 6 sets, second has 8 sets.

Any suggestions?

[/quote]

I will write what everybody should have. Take up tiddlywinks and stop
wasting your time, our time and internet bandwidth. How bout them apples?

71

Genetics are overrated. Prof X was skinny in college, look at him now.

Personally I’d say try training your arms only 2 times a week INDIRECTLY. Yes you heard me, stop curling for now. Start doing neutral grip pulls, try 10 sets of 3-5.

Try squatting more frequently.

Start doing pushups on resting days. 100 reps.

Use a blender. If you haven’t got one…well I’ll let you fill this in Blend a high calorie shake in the morning and late in the evening or after dinner.

All this shit got me jacked pretty quickly.

72

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Genetics are overrated. Prof X was skinny in college, look at him now.

Personally I’d say try training your arms only 2 times a week INDIRECTLY. Yes you heard me, stop curling for now. Start doing neutral grip pulls, try 10 sets of 3-5.

[/quote]

This kid wants bigger arms and you tell him to train his arms indirectly? Seriously? In a fucking bodybuilding forum you say this? Cmon man. I understand what you mean and all, but you couldnt possible have thought that would go over well.

To the OP, eat protein carbs and fat, lift heavy and often, and stfu. If that doesnt do anything for you after ~2-3 years then you might be genetically incapable of getting hyoooge.

73

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Genetics are overrated. Prof X was skinny in college, look at him now.

Personally I’d say try training your arms only 2 times a week INDIRECTLY. Yes you heard me, stop curling for now. Start doing neutral grip pulls, try 10 sets of 3-5.

Try squatting more frequently.

Start doing pushups on resting days. 100 reps.

Use a blender. If you haven’t got one…well I’ll let you fill this in Blend a high calorie shake in the morning and late in the evening or after dinner.

All this shit got me jacked pretty quickly.
[/quote]

I was skinny and fat though. Professor X was just skinny. Or some are just fat. I’m both, or at least was both. In terms of BB, I’m both right now at 173lbs @ 12% body fat.

But who cares about my hormones? I’m simply stating that as just the reference point of where I’m starting. Not where I want to be. A lot of you guys just take the term “low testosterone” and don’t process it–just assume it’s an excuse. If it was an excuse, why am I working hard, dieting to a T, and actually doing consistent cardio for the first time in my life?

As for why I got a hormonal profile. I don’t have parents, and thought about pursuing health insurance. They asked for some background on me, so I got bloodwork and was denied at the time. Yes, Professor X, at the time I was in the state of getting into hypogonadism, but no I was never clinically diagnosed with it because I started to learn how to eat better and exercise. And here I am 18 months later.

Something will work. I’ll give all these recommendations a try.

74

[quote]gregron wrote:
well I was in the process of compiling a super quote of all your excuses and there were a lot but I accidentally closed the wrong browser and lost my entire post and I dont care enough to go back through and quote them all again because there were over 10 and I hadnt even gotten through the second page.[/quote]

Show me one where I didn’t say that I still can gain muscle. I did tell you and everyone here about my hormonal profile. But I never told you it’s why I cannot gain muscle, I told you why I’m starting off at a bit of a lower level than most of you expect.

You clearly cannot read properly. I said I have a poor hormonal profile, but I can still gain muscle. I never really wnat to exceed 12% body fat, because I’m NEVER stepping on stage, and always want to look good naked.

I’ve never said I’ve tried any method. Please show me one “arm training method”, I’ve tried and refuted against from a knowledgable poster.

[quote]You havent been lifting weights long enough of consistently enough to even know those things. Just get on a program and stick with it for 6-9 months then see what happens.

When I started I was 5’9" and 145… started lifting weights and playing highschool football and ended 5’11" and 170… So I started out really small just like you. You just need to lift weights consistently for a few years and then see whats up

.greg.[/quote]

This is the only thing that you say that actually makes sense. I do need to be more patient. 12 weeks really isn’t a good measurement stick. I’m just putting the cart in front of the horse probably. I’m happy to know I’m progressing all-around though.

75

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Genetics are overrated. Prof X was skinny in college, look at him now.

Personally I’d say try training your arms only 2 times a week INDIRECTLY. Yes you heard me, stop curling for now. Start doing neutral grip pulls, try 10 sets of 3-5.

[/quote]

This kid wants bigger arms and you tell him to train his arms indirectly? Seriously? In a fucking bodybuilding forum you say this? Cmon man. I understand what you mean and all, but you couldnt possible have thought that would go over well.

To the OP, eat protein carbs and fat, lift heavy and often, and stfu. If that doesnt do anything for you after ~2-3 years then you might be genetically incapable of getting hyoooge.[/quote]

Whats wrong with you? Why does it matter what you do as long as you get the results. I’d always recommend someone starting out to do the basic stuff first. Plus hes already said hes training arms directly and its not working.

76

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

But who cares about my hormones? I’m simply stating that as just the reference point of where I’m starting. Not where I want to be. A lot of you guys just take the term “low testosterone” and don’t process it–just assume it’s an excuse. If it was an excuse, why am I working hard, dieting to a T, and actually doing consistent cardio for the first time in my life?

As for why I got a hormonal profile. I don’t have parents, and thought about pursuing health insurance. They asked for some background on me, so I got bloodwork and was denied at the time. Yes, Professor X, at the time I was in the state of getting into hypogonadism, but no I was never clinically diagnosed with it because I started to learn how to eat better and exercise. And here I am 18 months later.
[/quote]

What were you eating that made you have low T levels?

77

I didn’t mean it to sound like an attack, its just an issue that someone brings up from time to time about TBT vs. splits.

The OP said he was doing a P/P/S routine, so my guess is that he was not isolating them A GREAT DEAL. Could be wrong. Also, since this is a bodybuilding forum I was thinking that the OP was looking for advice geared towards that training style.

Also, look at MOST guys with big arms, they generally isolate their muscles (Im not saying they neglect heavy ass compounds movements).

Did not mean to start a hijack, my bad.

OP, I am also curious about the foods affecting your testosterone, please elaborate.

78

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

I’ve never said I’ve tried any method. Please show me one “arm training method”, I’ve tried and refuted against from a knowledgable poster.
[/quote]

you never said this?

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
when you spend money on supplements, read about training, and use true & tried methods-- yet to no avail[/quote]

???

I am done wasting my time with you because you’re fucking retarded and more than likely a troll. I dont believe someone can be as dense as you are or have more excuses than you do. Almost every post you put up has some sort of an excuse in it. you say “I can gain muscle BUT i have low T so its going to be slow” blah blah blah… I’m with X and I’m done wasting my time here.

You’re never going to make good progress with your attitude, that is if you are serious about these posts which I am now doubting. Anyway, this will be my last post in here because this is a waste of time

.greg.

79

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
how come around my body I’m progressing at such a strong rate, but particularly in my arms it’s at such a low rate? Does it have to do with anything about my wingspan?[/quote]

You have to consider that progress will be in proportion to size of muscle group. If say you can add 2kg (sorry, I’m British) to your bench press every week, you couldn’t expect to add 2kg to each dumbbell (if you use them). Also, with low rep ranges (like 6 or under), every rep is like worth twice the rep progression in the higher rep range. Say for example you progressed from 6 reps to 7 reps, that’s like jumping from 10 reps to 12 reps in the higher rep range.

So when I said do higher reps for the arms (e.g. 10-12), it’s not just so that it targets different muscle fibres, but also because the progression is more PROGRESSIVE. That is, it’s far easier to get another rep in the 10-12 rep range, than it is to get another rep in the 6-8 rep range. That’s using the rep progression method (rather than just load progression method where the reps per set stay the same)…this is superior for arms because like I said the progression is more progressive/gradual which is needed for a small/weaker muscle group.

If you just decide to add say 2-5lbs to your curling/arm pushing exercises, and stick to just 6 reps per set, then if you’re muscles haven’t adapted to that load yet, you will just get a failed lift (and little progression).

So, next step (besides making sure over-all strength is going up…which it seems to be) is to increase rep range and switch to training arms directly about twice a week.

One little note just incase…in the past my arms never grew much due to “overstimulation”, I was training loads of upper body exercises 2-3 times per week, and then training arms AT THE END of a hard training session - this will hinder arm growth. Try to train them as fresh as possible and bear in mind the accumulated fatigue caused by upper exercises like pulling/pressing movements.[/quote]

Right, perhaps, I should try out a day for just arms?

I generally do biceps at the end of pull day and triceps at the end of push day.

I go Push-Off-Pull-Off-Legs repeat. Push has bicep work, pull has tricep work.
[/quote]

OK, here’s the deal, you need to focus on your whole body…but with the exception of maybe optimising your arm training.

What you don’t want to do at this stage is swap whole training programs all the time. Stick to a decent one, and hammer the hell out of it for months and months. Many advanced trainees stick to the same program for YEARS. The only exception is minor alterations; it evolves.

So here’s a decent balanced split that is used by MANY with great success (directly cut and pasted from CC):

day 1 chest, bis, tris
day 2 legs
day 3 off (or not, your call)
day 4 delts, back
day 5 off
day 6 repeat

-split. Can be done anywhere from 3 days a week only to 3 out of 4 days…

There are slight variations of this split (e.g. doing back and chest together, then moving arms to shoulder/delts day…or doing the split you gave; push/pull, but with less days off inbetween).

Right now, I wouldn’t worry about giving your arms their own day - this will simply delay frequency of training the whole body (which needs to be relatively high for someone getting stronger). BUT, you CAN increase the sets for them AND increase the rep range like I said (from 6 reps/set to 10-12 reps per set and do about 2 max sets per exercise). If a bodypart is lagging, and you’re doing it almost twice a week (e.g. every 5 days), best alternative is to increase volume for the muscle group (assuming everything else is growing fine).

Main thing is progression in strength. At this stage you should either be increasing either reps by 2 each week and/or load by at least 2% each week. Strength should be upping in leaps and bounds…don’t lose focus of this.

80

It boils down to this. If you want to make gains fast, you will ad body fat and your waist will get bigger. If you want to stay lean so you can feel good about taking your shirt off, expect and be happy with making really slow gains.

I can also tell you that it is entirely possible to get stronger and bigger in some places and have your arms lag behind. I did it for quite a while. Started to do more direct arm work, and my arms started to grow.

X was right, when you bulk up and put on a lot of weight, you have to fight the urge to freak out and cut it all off right away. I did what you did for about two years and made almost no progress because of it. You have to hold that body weight for a while.

Decide what you want to do, stay lean and make real slow progress, or add mass quickly…and then do it. Very few people can do both, I know I can’t, that is just the reality of the situation.