Lagging Arms

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Scott M wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

Close Grip Bench- 150lbs x 6 reps
Dips- 25lb + BW x 6 reps
Skullcrushers- 75lbs x 6 reps
Dumebll Curl- 35lbs x 6 reps
Barbell Curl- 75lbs x 6 reps

Yes, I know, very weak. But as you can imagine, I was SIGNIFICANTLY lower when I started 12 weeks ago.[/quote]

Over the next two years your goals should be as follows

Close Grip 295x12
Dips +135 x10
Skull Crusher 115x15
Dumbbell Curl 60x10
Barbell Curl 115x10

Eat primarily good bodybuilding foods(like by hiring Shelby) and do somem form of cardio on days you don’t train.

That’s it. I know you want to hear about sets/reps/frequency and all that but just about any program will work so just get to it and stay off the boards with the woah is me stuff. 12 weeks is nothing, 52-104 weeks is something a little different. [/quote]

I hope to reach those. Here’s my starting points from 12 weeks ago.

Close Grip 85x12
Dips BW x 3
Skull Crusher 50 x 6
Dumbbell Curl 27.5 x 6
Barbell Curl 55 x 6

42

Great now… continue and don’t expect significant change every 3 months.

If you put on 1 lb of muscle every single month for the next year you’d be SIGNIFICANTLY larger at the end of 5 years. 60 lbs of LBM and you’d look like a totally different person. Problem is you’d likely have OCDed your way out of process come month 2 because you wouldn’t have seen it yet. Patience and consistency.

43

A fork in the road lies within sight: one veers right and lays before a foggy path, shadowed and dark, littered with trees and thick vegetation. Behind it sits a mountain, tall, snow capping its top, with a faint glimmer of light at its peak; the other slightly slants left, showing an open plane, flat lands, and a road that goes on til your sight falls short.

If you arent growing, if you arent eating enough, if you’re afraid of weight gain, if you think that in actual retrospect you know anything and refuse to listen to good advice, you will be shackled on that left path and will wander it for the rest of lifting life.

Excuses are like assholes. Everyone has em, and they are always full of shit…

44

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
You seem to pull the genetic card quite a lot. We all know how important it is, but at this level, you shouldn’t even be worrying about that shit. Like everyone said, gain mass overall and stop worrying about the little stuff like how long your arms are or how high/low your test or cortisol levels are etc.[/quote]

I only pulled it when Professor X and D didn’t fathom my measurements.

And I shouldn’t worry about my poor hormonal profile? You do realize this is based off of genetics & diet. I’ve got to work the diet part to a T, and it was very important and good I saw my genetic part of it. It helped me realize where I need help.

And you do worry about such stuff when you spend money on supplements, read about training, and use true & tried methods-- yet to no avail. I’ve stopped spending on supplements, and am going to invest in Shelby Starnes at the end of the summer.

And just because I had level X or level Y doesn’t mean I cannot grow. I’ve said it before, anyone with any sort of levels can achieve a certain level of fitness.[/quote]

You missed the point I was trying to make.

Very few people worry about their T levels or blood profile or whatever at age 19. You are overthinking and instead of just putting your head down and working hard, is making waayyyyyyyy too much fuss about what goes into a good diet and training program.

It’s not rocket science. And you better call Shelby now, cause trust me, if you’re gonna go on your own for much longer and worrying about waaaaaayyyyyy too much, you’ll be even more lost.

45

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Part of the diagnoses for arms reaches far beyond just exercise.

Having said that though, try changing the rep range. Like if you’ve been doing lowish reps, try high reps for a while (e.g. 12-15). Just don’t use that as an excuse to go really light and not have much intensity. With higher reps, you can do them more frequently no problem (I’d shoot for 2-3x/week as a beginner).

As for your stomach size increase compared to bodyweight, 3.5inches per 20lbs bodyweight is actually about “normal” (at the high end, but still not abnormal). We did a little survey on here a while back, and for the average person, for every 5-10lbs of bodyweight increase, their waist girth increased by an inch:

When you become more experienced (especially with diet/workout intensity), this ratio will likely get better.[/quote]

Interesting points. Thanks for sharing these. One thing though;

  1. I’ve gained 16lbs in the last 12 weeks. And have gone from a 32.25 inch waist to a 32 inch waist. Doesn’t this go against the add weight, add girth thing? I don’t expect to continue to lose inches off the waist as i get bigger(never really did), but what I’m really learning is nothing is linear.

  2. 3.5 inches may not be bad. But when you’re going from a 34.5inch waist to 38 inch waist it goes from bad to terrible.[/quote]

  3. This is just like newbie gains (no offence intended) - that is, gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time often happens. Past gaining those initial 20-30lbs of lean mass, this likely won’t happen again at the same time (losing fat/gaining muscle). Although you lost all that fat, you would still be considered a newb because you didn’t change your lean mass (if anything, this likely decreased somewhat). This is also another reason why when you went back to “gaining”, you easily gained the muscle mass back again even while losing some fat (due to being in anabolism in some periods, and catabolism in other periods).

  4. Maybe, but I’ve rarely been below 37inches (I’m at your height). While focussing on gaining, it’s not my primary concern right now. I know that as long as the waist goes down again every time I trim fat down AKA “damage control” (copyright PX LOL), then all is fine. I didn’t put that link up there for a goal, but rather to stop you from “freaking out” :slight_smile:

46

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

  1. Maybe, but I’ve rarely been below 37inches (I’m at your height). While focussing on gaining, it’s not my primary concern right now. I know that as long as the waist goes down again every time I trim fat down AKA “damage control” (copyright PX LOL), then all is fine. I didn’t put that link up there for a goal, but rather to stop you from “freaking out” :)[/quote]

I’m just an inch taller I never freaked out about my waist getting even to 41". That’s where my body tends to store fat, so be it. I’ll tell you what I didn’t do. Freak out and cut to ridiculously low weight out of panic (157 at 5’11 ?!?!) .

OP, quit making excuses and patting yourself on the back. You should’ve gotten a lot more done in those 18 months. There’s a ton of progress pictures in Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness . Some us in that thread started off a lot older than you and with lower testosterone yet managed to make some real progress.

47

I know where you’re coming from man. I’m a skinny asshole, 4 years ago i was 125 pounds and I’ve been lifting since then and now I’m 170. Also, I’m 6’1" so you catch my drift. Don’t expect gains to come so quickly it took me goddamn forever and it’s still going to take me forever to get to be where I want. Just work your ass off, up the weights, and eat your ass off. Don’t blame genetics or testosterone, just get shit done.

48

[quote]

I couldn’t care less how much you weigh. With a 40" chest, it is pretty damn clear that you have not made that much in the way of muscle mass gains at all. Your mindset will hold you back. People who get big don’t convince themselves their testosterone is too low to make a shit load of progress unless they actually have a clinical case of hypogonadism.

My guess is, your idea of “lifting heavy” is not what most of us are referring to.[/quote]

Your guess is correct, however, I’m trying to state that I’m trying to get stronger. All lifts are increasing, etc. But on the level “here”, I am classified as very weak. But I’m progressing. I mean everyone has to start somewhere right?

And my mindset has not held me back in any radical and drastic change I’ve done for my body since I’ve tried doing this. Why would it now?

49

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

  1. Maybe, but I’ve rarely been below 37inches (I’m at your height). While focussing on gaining, it’s not my primary concern right now. I know that as long as the waist goes down again every time I trim fat down AKA “damage control” (copyright PX LOL), then all is fine. I didn’t put that link up there for a goal, but rather to stop you from “freaking out” :)[/quote]

I’m just an inch taller I never freaked out about my waist getting even to 41". That’s where my body tends to store fat, so be it. I’ll tell you what I didn’t do. Freak out and cut to ridiculously low weight out of panic (157 at 5’11 ?!?!) .

OP, quit making excuses and patting yourself on the back. You should’ve gotten a lot more done in those 18 months. There’s a ton of progress pictures in Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness . Some us in that thread started off a lot older than you and with lower testosterone yet managed to make some real progress.[/quote]

Yeah, none of them have gone from close to 35% body fat to 12% body fat in 18 months. I’ve already looked at those, anyways, we have different goals. I started weightlifting at the beginning of this calendear year, btw.

You have no problem sporting a 41 inch waist, what do you want me to say? Credit to you for looking obese? lol, no.

All I can ask for myself is to be happy with this and continously progress. If I’m not happy with a big waist, simple…don’t get a big waist. You see any lack of logic there or disagree with anything?

50

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
A fork in the road lies within sight: one veers right and lays before a foggy path, shadowed and dark, littered with trees and thick vegetation. Behind it sits a mountain, tall, snow capping its top, with a faint glimmer of light at its peak; the other slightly slants left, showing an open plane, flat lands, and a road that goes on til your sight falls short.

If you arent growing, if you arent eating enough, if you’re afraid of weight gain, if you think that in actual retrospect you know anything and refuse to listen to good advice, you will be shackled on that left path and will wander it for the rest of lifting life.

Excuses are like assholes. Everyone has em, and they are always full of shit…[/quote]

Agreed. I’m not stating what I have as an excuse, so for those who interpret it that way, it’s wrong. I’m just stating it in a community that’s HEAVILY dependent on it(heck, look at the name of the site).

But by all means, there’s ABSOLUTELY NO reason why I shouldn’t be able to progress. And I am progressing, except for my arms. Perhaps, I just need to continue doing what I’m doing and my arms will jump when they do.

51

[quote]

  1. This is just like newbie gains (no offence intended) - that is, gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time often happens. Past gaining those initial 20-30lbs of lean mass, this likely won’t happen again at the same time (losing fat/gaining muscle). Although you lost all that fat, you would still be considered a newb because you didn’t change your lean mass (if anything, this likely decreased somewhat). This is also another reason why when you went back to “gaining”, you easily gained the muscle mass back again even while losing some fat (due to being in anabolism in some periods, and catabolism in other periods). [/quote]

Then why did noob gains come after my noob stretch. I first started lifting in January, and January to March I made small progress. My main progress has been from March to now in which I’ve cut and slowly bulked back up.

Waist size is one thing. Perhapos, I should’ve been more specific. Body fat. Bulking from 15% body fat to 20% fat isn’t pretty. Ideally, for someone like me, I shouldn’t ever have to exceed 12% body fat because there’s LITTLE TO NOTHING to benefit from it. I know some will disagree, but tell that to someone who’s actually got the respect of many and proved it(such as Thibs or Starnes, or really Justin Harris).

Justin was the one who told me about 8 to 12% bulk, 12 to 8% cut. I’m NEVER going to compete, I just want to look good naked.

52

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
A fork in the road lies within sight: one veers right and lays before a foggy path, shadowed and dark, littered with trees and thick vegetation. Behind it sits a mountain, tall, snow capping its top, with a faint glimmer of light at its peak; the other slightly slants left, showing an open plane, flat lands, and a road that goes on til your sight falls short.

If you arent growing, if you arent eating enough, if you’re afraid of weight gain, if you think that in actual retrospect you know anything and refuse to listen to good advice, you will be shackled on that left path and will wander it for the rest of lifting life.

Excuses are like assholes. Everyone has em, and they are always full of shit…[/quote]

Agreed. I’m not stating what I have as an excuse, so for those who interpret it that way, it’s wrong. I’m just stating it in a community that’s HEAVILY dependent on it(heck, look at the name of the site).

But by all means, there’s ABSOLUTELY NO reason why I shouldn’t be able to progress. And I am progressing, except for my arms. Perhaps, I just need to continue doing what I’m doing and my arms will jump when they do.
[/quote]

What possible reason is there for growth all over your body except for your arms? Training. Maybe your arm training is just terrible? Maybe you should take a look at your form, check your weight, up your training? If you have measurable results in other areas except for one, then its something YOU arent doing properly.

53

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]

  1. This is just like newbie gains (no offence intended) - that is, gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time often happens. Past gaining those initial 20-30lbs of lean mass, this likely won’t happen again at the same time (losing fat/gaining muscle). Although you lost all that fat, you would still be considered a newb because you didn’t change your lean mass (if anything, this likely decreased somewhat). This is also another reason why when you went back to “gaining”, you easily gained the muscle mass back again even while losing some fat (due to being in anabolism in some periods, and catabolism in other periods). [/quote]

Then why did noob gains come after my noob stretch. I first started lifting in January, and January to March I made small progress. My main progress has been from March to now in which I’ve cut and slowly bulked back up.

Waist size is one thing. Perhapos, I should’ve been more specific. Body fat. Bulking from 15% body fat to 20% fat isn’t pretty. Ideally, for someone like me, I shouldn’t ever have to exceed 12% body fat because there’s LITTLE TO NOTHING to benefit from it. I know some will disagree, but tell that to someone who’s actually got the respect of many and proved it(such as Thibs or Starnes, or really Justin Harris).

Justin was the one who told me about 8 to 12% bulk, 12 to 8% cut. I’m NEVER going to compete, I just want to look good naked. [/quote]

There’s quite a lot of things in there to comment on (e.g. What CT said about the bulking range etc), but firstly, how do you measure bodyfat?

54

So are you posting here to wallow in self pity or to actually learn something? You are making excuses for every possible reason for why you can’t gain, and if someone mentions something different you’re responding with “Tried it, didn’t work” “got fat, wasn’t happy” ect.

If you tried it and it didn’t work: You did it wrong
If you tried it and you got fat: You did it wrong

I have a 76" wingspan, 2" less than you, and once believed I had a small bone structure weighing under 160lbs @ 6’ before I picked up weight training when I was 18. I fucked around not knowing what I was doing for 2yrs and picked up 20lbs of newbie gains. I remember being excited when I got 13.5" arms.

5 years of KNOWING WHAT I’M DOING later, I’ve filled out pretty well. Arms are 18.5" right now, averaging my gains to only an inch per year.

How quick do you think gains are going to come? It took me a total of seven years (2 learning, 5 hard & heavy) to reach the point I have now. Yes, genetics do come into play, I don’t gain as easily and quickly as others, but I never used that as a crutch to stop training. Hell I trained a whole year with zero gains. Just recently I posted here questioning my genetics due to being stuck between 205-210 for a year. I took the advice I received with an open mind and put it into practice. Surprise, I’m up 2lbs. It was simple shit that I never thought of; drop some solid food calories for liquid calories and put olive oil on everything I can. This only upped my caloric intake by 600-700, but I’m growing again.

You have a lot to learn and plenty of time ahead of you. So sit back, chill out, and re-read everything posted again with an open mind. Decide if you really have the drive to pursue what you desire without any excuses at all. It’s a lifestyle change. You say you have skinny-fuck genetics. If that’s true you CAN NOT half-ass this and expect to succeed.

55

[quote]23278 wrote:
So are you posting here to wallow in self pity or to actually learn something? You are making excuses for every possible reason for why you can’t gain, and if someone mentions something different you’re responding with “Tried it, didn’t work” “got fat, wasn’t happy” ect.

If you tried it and it didn’t work: You did it wrong
If you tried it and you got fat: You did it wrong

I have a 76" wingspan, 2" less than you, and once believed I had a small bone structure weighing under 160lbs @ 6’ before I picked up weight training when I was 18. I fucked around not knowing what I was doing for 2yrs and picked up 20lbs of newbie gains. I remember being excited when I got 13.5" arms.

5 years of KNOWING WHAT I’M DOING later, I’ve filled out pretty well. Arms are 18.5" right now, averaging my gains to only an inch per year.

How quick do you think gains are going to come? It took me a total of seven years (2 learning, 5 hard & heavy) to reach the point I have now. Yes, genetics do come into play, I don’t gain as easily and quickly as others, but I never used that as a crutch to stop training. Hell I trained a whole year with zero gains. Just recently I posted here questioning my genetics due to being stuck between 205-210 for a year. I took the advice I received with an open mind and put it into practice. Surprise, I’m up 2lbs. It was simple shit that I never thought of; drop some solid food calories for liquid calories and put olive oil on everything I can. This only upped my caloric intake by 600-700, but I’m growing again.

You have a lot to learn and plenty of time ahead of you. So sit back, chill out, and re-read everything posted again with an open mind. Decide if you really have the drive to pursue what you desire without any excuses at all. It’s a lifestyle change. You say you have skinny-fuck genetics. If that’s true you CAN NOT half-ass this and expect to succeed.[/quote]

You’re missing my point then. A lot of these guys have a ton to offer, and I know that. Heck, I spent the last 8 months reading here and recently “joined”.

I’m not giving reasons why I can’t gain, I’m giving reasons on where I’m starting off. Heck, it isn’t a reason, it’s just how it is.

Re-read this thread and show me one area where I said I cannot gain? I said three or four times in this thread, gaining is about dieting & genetics. ANYBODY with ANY panel of hormones can gain. My trouble spot is really all-around, but particularly my arms in proportion to my body.

I’ve never once said or implied that I cannot “gain”. I’m just starting off at a base that may be less then the person next to me, or in a minute chance-- more. But everyone’s got to start somewhere.

56

[quote]

There’s quite a lot of things in there to comment on (e.g. What CT said about the bulking range etc), but firstly, how do you measure bodyfat?[/quote]

Why is it a lot to comment on?

Isn’t it just basic body science/chemistry that the lower body fat you are at, better at partitioning nutrients, increasing hormonal signals, etc.?

How do I measure body fat? Mirror. Mirror really does justice, but I’ll caliper, tape, etc. as just ways of progress. Ideally to me, the mirror speaks more than all other areas combined. I don’t put too much stock in my ability to use calipers, etc. so I just use those to track some form of progress.

57

I’ll start answering these points while waiting for your answer…

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
Then why did noob gains come after my noob stretch. I first started lifting in January, and January to March I made small progress. My main progress has been from March to now in which I’ve cut and slowly bulked back up.
[/quote]

Whether you are a beginner or not, does not depend on experience/time span…but on results (mainly strength/muscle gain). Lose all the fat you like, but this doesn’t count towards mass building level (beginner vs advanced). A person who diligently gains 50lb+ in 3 years time and progresses well in strength is more advanced than someone who spends 6 years getting hardly anywhere. You could have spent years training, going backwards and forwards, staying still etc, and you would still be considered a newb despite the time you put into it.

[quote]
Waist size is one thing. Perhapos, I should’ve been more specific. Body fat. Bulking from 15% body fat to 20% fat isn’t pretty. Ideally, for someone like me, I shouldn’t ever have to exceed 12% body fat because there’s LITTLE TO NOTHING to benefit from it. I know some will disagree, but tell that to someone who’s actually got the respect of many and proved it(such as Thibs or Starnes, or really Justin Harris).

Justin was the one who told me about 8 to 12% bulk, 12 to 8% cut. I’m NEVER going to compete, I just want to look good naked. [/quote]

Waist size and bodyfat actually correlates quite well with each other (with the exception of bloatedness etc). You can almost guarantee that if your bodyfat went up by 2-4%, you probably added an inch or two to your waist.

As regards bulking range. If ideally, you could bulk up between 8 and 12%, then that still means that bodyfat will not be constant (while gaining it will always go up). But despite all that, you are assuming that it’s “easy to stay at 12% bf”…Ones like CT had to spend two years at that level of low bodyfat to be able to set that as a normal “set point”. So because CT was a former fat boy, he had to stay lean for ages before his body accepted that as normal…thus making it “easier” to gain muscle at a lean level without just blowing up straight away again.

58

[quote]
Whether you are a beginner or not, does not depend on experience/time span…but on results (mainly strength/muscle gain). Lose all the fat you like, but this doesn’t count towards mass building level (beginner vs advanced). A person who diligently gains 50lb+ in 3 years time and progresses well in strength is more advanced than someone who spends 6 years getting hardly anywhere. You could have spent years training, going backwards and forwards, staying still etc, and you would still be considered a newb despite the time you put into it.[/quote]

Makes sense. But then I have another question, how come around my body I’m progressing at such a strong rate, but particularly in my arms it’s at such a low rate? Does it have to do with anything about my wingspan?

It’s not just low, perhaps I should again re-phrase myself, it’s pathetic.

[quote]
Waist size and bodyfat actually correlates quite well with each other (with the exception of bloatedness etc). You can almost guarantee that if your bodyfat went up by 2%, you probably added an inch or two to your waist.

As regards bulking range. If ideally, you could bulk up between 8 and 12%, then that still means that bodyfat will not be constant (while gaining it will always go up). But despite all that, you are assuming that it’s “easy to stay at 12% bf”…Ones like CT had to spend two years at that level of low bodyfat to be able to set that as a normal “set point”. So because CT was a former fat boy, he had to stay lean for ages before his body accepted that as normal…thus making it “easier” to gain muscle at a lean level without just blowing up straight away again.[/quote]

Oh yeah, 8% to 12% means you did gain fat. But you aren’t “fat”. That’s the thing, I never want to be fat. I should never ever feel embarassed about taking my shirt off or feel insecure.

I was fat for 18 years, and it was the worse experience of my life. And I understand it’ll take years for my body to re-adjust. It’s use to(18 of the 19 years of my exsistence) being fat, so I need to program it to live differently. I’ve accepted that. For a 19 year old, I made such an adjustment and commitment to eat clean, not skip meals, cardio, etc.

59

Don’t know how I skipped this. You make sense, but I do really focus on form, the only thing I can say that I really lack in terms of training is strength. I don’t curl big numbers. Heck people’s warm up here are my max numbers. And I’m not even joking.

Adding poundage on curls is something that’s very hard for me to do. Perhaps I should focus more on less rests and more reps, than pure raw weight on curls? I always was told to get strength up, then worry about hypertrophy tactics. I tried applying that to my arms too but they obviously aren’t responding in a similar fashion.

60

I stopped reading after the first page of this thread but all I hear from the Op is “EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES.” You are not like your avatar says “lean n big” You’re not big at 175ish pounds at 5’11"… That is small.

Just stop posting so many excuses, start eating as much food as you can get your hands on and check back in a year. You have 20 inch legs and a 40 inch chest and are worried about adding inches to your arms? Come on maaaaaaaan

.greg.