Lagging Arms

This thread is somewhat fucking shit really.

You arm are lagging, okay. How much you curls ? Do you train them seriously or just do as many do, me include, trow them at the end of a upper body training ?

As far as low T levels, 2 years ago (After my “comeback” from testicular cancer) I had ~130 ng/dl at 130lbs Today I am 230lbs ~270 ng/dl and my strength went from not being able to squat down my own body to repin’ in the high 300’s and still progressing really well. So that excuses is really lame.

It’s easy to find excuses, hard to bust your ass in the gym. I think this is the problem here for you …

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
You have no problem sporting a 41 inch waist, what do you want me to say? Credit to you for looking obese? lol, no.

All I can ask for myself is to be happy with this and continously progress. If I’m not happy with a big waist, simple…don’t get a big waist. You see any lack of logic there or disagree with anything?

[/quote]

If you look at the pics in my hub and see an obese guy, then I don’t even know what to tell you. My point was that if you store MOST of your fat in your waist when you bulk, well there’s not much you can do about that. I’ve been training only a few months more than you, started off about the same size (I was 6’ 215 and 25%'ish bodyfat in 7/2008) yet you close grip bench 85 lbs for reps. I benched 315 within a year of training and curled 60lbs DB because I wasn’t afraid to add inches to my waist. I’m cutting down now and losing the fat is not an issue at all.

I gave you a link of people who made good progress when they started so you can see what’s possible. But after reading your other posts, you’re obviously one of those people who spend more time reading articles and measuring bodypart ratio’s then actually training so all of the advice you’ve been getting is pointless.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

But who cares about my hormones? I’m simply stating that as just the reference point of where I’m starting. Not where I want to be. A lot of you guys just take the term “low testosterone” and don’t process it–just assume it’s an excuse. If it was an excuse, why am I working hard, dieting to a T, and actually doing consistent cardio for the first time in my life?

As for why I got a hormonal profile. I don’t have parents, and thought about pursuing health insurance. They asked for some background on me, so I got bloodwork and was denied at the time. Yes, Professor X, at the time I was in the state of getting into hypogonadism, but no I was never clinically diagnosed with it because I started to learn how to eat better and exercise. And here I am 18 months later.
[/quote]

What were you eating that made you have low T levels?[/quote]

At the time of the first check up?

If so, anti-BB foods. Typical American diet really.

[quote]greggio wrote:
It boils down to this. If you want to make gains fast, you will ad body fat and your waist will get bigger. If you want to stay lean so you can feel good about taking your shirt off, expect and be happy with making really slow gains.

I can also tell you that it is entirely possible to get stronger and bigger in some places and have your arms lag behind. I did it for quite a while. Started to do more direct arm work, and my arms started to grow.

X was right, when you bulk up and put on a lot of weight, you have to fight the urge to freak out and cut it all off right away. I did what you did for about two years and made almost no progress because of it. You have to hold that body weight for a while.

Decide what you want to do, stay lean and make real slow progress, or add mass quickly…and then do it. Very few people can do both, I know I can’t, that is just the reality of the situation. [/quote]

you’re right. And it’s easy to see it, hard to execute. But I just gotta do it.

I’m 19 & simply being impatient.

[quote]StompingHorse wrote:
This thread is somewhat fucking shit really.

You arm are lagging, okay. How much you curls ? Do you train them seriously or just do as many do, me include, trow them at the end of a upper body training ?

As far as low T levels, 2 years ago (After my “comeback” from testicular cancer) I had ~130 ng/dl at 130lbs Today I am 230lbs ~270 ng/dl and my strength went from not being able to squat down my own body to repin’ in the high 300’s and still progressing really well. So that excuses is really lame.

It’s easy to find excuses, hard to bust your ass in the gym. I think this is the problem here for you …[/quote]

Where O Where is what I’m saying an excuse?

I’m going to get bigger, period. I just have some questions along the way. It’s ONLY been 12 weeks. I curl low #'s as previously shown, and I’m stating it’s not progressing as fast as my chest, etc.

I need to learn that just like weight gain or loss, and body fat, muscle gain isn’t linear. That’s all there is to it. I’m just going to have to be patient.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

I’ve never said I’ve tried any method. Please show me one “arm training method”, I’ve tried and refuted against from a knowledgable poster.
[/quote]

you never said this?

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
when you spend money on supplements, read about training, and use true & tried methods-- yet to no avail[/quote]

???

I am done wasting my time with you because you’re fucking retarded and more than likely a troll. I dont believe someone can be as dense as you are or have more excuses than you do. Almost every post you put up has some sort of an excuse in it. you say “I can gain muscle BUT i have low T so its going to be slow” blah blah blah… I’m with X and I’m done wasting my time here.

You’re never going to make good progress with your attitude, that is if you are serious about these posts which I am now doubting. Anyway, this will be my last post in here because this is a waste of time

.greg.
[/quote]

lol wat. So WHERE in that quote did I ever dismiss a good piece of advice from any of these members? If anything, I can show you at least three or four posters in this thread that have offered good advice, and I have every intent to implement them.

And btw, that tried & true method reference was to SS 5 x 5. The cookie cutter formula, with the cookie cutter progress wasn’t matching mine, thus I felt like I was failing. I realized where I went wrong.

So next time you’re trying to make a point, actually bring a valid source in. And lol at retarded? Don’t even get me started, you wish you could have the academic success I have had. It’s like me calling you a fat slob. We both know it’s not true, you seem to have a very good body. You and Mr. X can peace, it’s your type of beliefs that cause good teenagers into a terrible profile in a short span, and spew nonsense that the respected bodybuilding nutritionists frown upon(Justin Harris, Shelby Starnes, Layne Norton, etc.).

And if you really think you or Mr. X compare to any of them, you’re just proving my point.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
how come around my body I’m progressing at such a strong rate, but particularly in my arms it’s at such a low rate? Does it have to do with anything about my wingspan?[/quote]

You have to consider that progress will be in proportion to size of muscle group. If say you can add 2kg (sorry, I’m British) to your bench press every week, you couldn’t expect to add 2kg to each dumbbell (if you use them). Also, with low rep ranges (like 6 or under), every rep is like worth twice the rep progression in the higher rep range. Say for example you progressed from 6 reps to 7 reps, that’s like jumping from 10 reps to 12 reps in the higher rep range.

So when I said do higher reps for the arms (e.g. 10-12), it’s not just so that it targets different muscle fibres, but also because the progression is more PROGRESSIVE. That is, it’s far easier to get another rep in the 10-12 rep range, than it is to get another rep in the 6-8 rep range. That’s using the rep progression method (rather than just load progression method where the reps per set stay the same)…this is superior for arms because like I said the progression is more progressive/gradual which is needed for a small/weaker muscle group.

If you just decide to add say 2-5lbs to your curling/arm pushing exercises, and stick to just 6 reps per set, then if you’re muscles haven’t adapted to that load yet, you will just get a failed lift (and little progression).

So, next step (besides making sure over-all strength is going up…which it seems to be) is to increase rep range and switch to training arms directly about twice a week.

One little note just incase…in the past my arms never grew much due to “overstimulation”, I was training loads of upper body exercises 2-3 times per week, and then training arms AT THE END of a hard training session - this will hinder arm growth. Try to train them as fresh as possible and bear in mind the accumulated fatigue caused by upper exercises like pulling/pressing movements.[/quote]

Right, perhaps, I should try out a day for just arms?

I generally do biceps at the end of pull day and triceps at the end of push day.

I go Push-Off-Pull-Off-Legs repeat. Push has bicep work, pull has tricep work.
[/quote]

OK, here’s the deal, you need to focus on your whole body…but with the exception of maybe optimising your arm training.

What you don’t want to do at this stage is swap whole training programs all the time. Stick to a decent one, and hammer the hell out of it for months and months. Many advanced trainees stick to the same program for YEARS. The only exception is minor alterations; it evolves.

So here’s a decent balanced split that is used by MANY with great success (directly cut and pasted from CC):

day 1 chest, bis, tris
day 2 legs
day 3 off (or not, your call)
day 4 delts, back
day 5 off
day 6 repeat

-split. Can be done anywhere from 3 days a week only to 3 out of 4 days…

There are slight variations of this split (e.g. doing back and chest together, then moving arms to shoulder/delts day…or doing the split you gave; push/pull, but with less days off inbetween).

Right now, I wouldn’t worry about giving your arms their own day - this will simply delay frequency of training the whole body (which needs to be relatively high for someone getting stronger). BUT, you CAN increase the sets for them AND increase the rep range like I said (from 6 reps/set to 10-12 reps per set and do about 2 max sets per exercise). If a bodypart is lagging, and you’re doing it almost twice a week (e.g. every 5 days), best alternative is to increase volume for the muscle group (assuming everything else is growing fine).

Main thing is progression in strength. At this stage you should either be increasing either reps by 2 each week and/or load by at least 2% each week. Strength should be upping in leaps and bounds…don’t lose focus of this.[/quote]

Looks like a very good split. I’ll implement this first.

I’m trying my hardest to progress in strength, as you can see numbers in about 90% of my lifts have gone up from 30 pounds to even 100lbs in these 12 weeks. The 10% being my arms, but we’ll try this out. More volume and new split it is.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

If you look at the pics in my hub and see an obese guy, then I don’t even know what to tell you. My point was that if you store MOST of your fat in your waist when you bulk, well there’s not much you can do about that. [/quote]

Agreed, it’s very hard to swallow. When you’ve been fat for 18 years, being lean is like a dream.

Woah, same size? I started off 50lbs less than you in terms of weight training(started at 165lbs) and 15lbs less than you with EVEN MORE body fat when dieting(200lbs @ 30-35% body fat). 25% to me was a goal at the time. I started weight training just this calendar year. When I went to fight my weight problems I did it purely by diet and some basketball, and just added swimming, etc. Until finally I started hitting weights in January.

I started CG-Benching at 85 for 12 reps. That’s a start, and not a bad one. That’s for the first time I EVER Close-Grip benched I got out 85lbs for 12 reps.

Where am I now, 12 weeks later? 145lbs. Yes, it’s low, but hey man, progress is progress. I just gotta keep doing it.

It’s great to know that you can cut effortlessly. Not everyone’s built the same. Even when I went on this weight loss mission, etc. and got down to 150lbs at one point in my life, I never even saw a spec of my abs. I’m at a 32ish inch waist and it’s the lowest I’ve ever been.

I find “cutting” very, very diffcult. It takes a lot more time, trial & error for me to do. So for me to invest in cutting is redundant cause I’m so small as is and will just be smaller and weaker. This is where I may invest in Shelby for a 12-week cut. Jump the gun and figure out how to cut PROPERLY.

I do read, I’ll give you that. But I also got a strong drive, so no, I’ll put it to work. I just have to learn how to be patient, and understand it’s an accumulated product not an overnight thing. In all honesty, I’m hoping to wake up huge, and that’s something that just cannot happen.

DUDE! WTF is with the “glass half empty” attitude. There are a few things that you need to realize. As you know (and have stated above) education and knowledge is the most powerful weapon that you can have. Every single person on this forum has spent countless hours/years educating themselves through several different methods. Without it, the time spent in the gym would be counter productive at best. EDUCATE YOURSELF! And don’t tell me that this is what you are doing with this thread. There are tons of different sources, websites, books, etc. Asking questions on this site is just scratching the surface my friend.

Figure out how to setup YOUR nutrition and make it work for YOU! NOBODY on this forum will be able to tell you how and what diet to use. Again, educate yourself. Tons of books out there to help with this. Check out “Girth Control” by Alan Aragon.

Your body, as you have seen, will not progress at the same rate. There will be weak points that require specialization and hard work. Trial and error is a mother fucker! You will find that it is mostly error, but in the end YOU will know YOUR body. Again educate yourself. This site alone has tons of articles. Read some. If you have already, read more. This is that trial and error part.

Lastly, if you are not patient enough to figure all this out then you will be on a different forum this time next year asking the same questions. Nothing is quick and you will NEVER see results over night. Put the tape measure in your nightstand and use it maybe once a month or every few months. Don’t be so damn pessimistic about your past, what you body was/is like, test levels, blah,blah,blah. Everyone of us is broken in some regard. The question is, do you have the mental fortitude to fix it…

So, how many reps did your biceps/triceps get since you started this thread?

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

I’ve never said I’ve tried any method. Please show me one “arm training method”, I’ve tried and refuted against from a knowledgable poster.
[/quote]

you never said this?

[quote]leaNbig wrote:
when you spend money on supplements, read about training, and use true & tried methods-- yet to no avail[/quote]

???

I am done wasting my time with you because you’re fucking retarded and more than likely a troll. I dont believe someone can be as dense as you are or have more excuses than you do. Almost every post you put up has some sort of an excuse in it. you say “I can gain muscle BUT i have low T so its going to be slow” blah blah blah… I’m with X and I’m done wasting my time here.

You’re never going to make good progress with your attitude, that is if you are serious about these posts which I am now doubting. Anyway, this will be my last post in here because this is a waste of time

.greg.
[/quote]

lol wat. So WHERE in that quote did I ever dismiss a good piece of advice from any of these members? If anything, I can show you at least three or four posters in this thread that have offered good advice, and I have every intent to implement them.

And btw, that tried & true method reference was to SS 5 x 5. The cookie cutter formula, with the cookie cutter progress wasn’t matching mine, thus I felt like I was failing. I realized where I went wrong.

So next time you’re trying to make a point, actually bring a valid source in. And lol at retarded? Don’t even get me started, you wish you could have the academic success I have had. It’s like me calling you a fat slob. We both know it’s not true, you seem to have a very good body. You and Mr. X can peace, it’s your type of beliefs that cause good teenagers into a terrible profile in a short span, and spew nonsense that the respected bodybuilding nutritionists frown upon(Justin Harris, Shelby Starnes, Layne Norton, etc.).

And if you really think you or Mr. X compare to any of them, you’re just proving my point.[/quote]

WTF? Dude, you aren’t talking to uneducated people. I doubt you are any more educated than I am especially in matters concerning biology. Yes, in many instances, I would consider a person educated to an advanced degree in a health field who is also a bodybuilder could stand very well next to a nutritionist even though the people you mentioned do deserve credit for the work they have accomplished and their level of experience.

[quote]Mateus wrote:
DUDE! WTF is with the “glass half empty” attitude. There are a few things that you need to realize. As you know (and have stated above) education and knowledge is the most powerful weapon that you can have. Every single person on this forum has spent countless hours/years educating themselves through several different methods. Without it, the time spent in the gym would be counter productive at best. EDUCATE YOURSELF! And don’t tell me that this is what you are doing with this thread. There are tons of different sources, websites, books, etc. Asking questions on this site is just scratching the surface my friend.

Figure out how to setup YOUR nutrition and make it work for YOU! NOBODY on this forum will be able to tell you how and what diet to use. Again, educate yourself. Tons of books out there to help with this. Check out “Girth Control” by Alan Aragon.

Your body, as you have seen, will not progress at the same rate. There will be weak points that require specialization and hard work. Trial and error is a mother fucker! You will find that it is mostly error, but in the end YOU will know YOUR body. Again educate yourself. This site alone has tons of articles. Read some. If you have already, read more. This is that trial and error part.

Lastly, if you are not patient enough to figure all this out then you will be on a different forum this time next year asking the same questions. Nothing is quick and you will NEVER see results over night. Put the tape measure in your nightstand and use it maybe once a month or every few months. Don’t be so damn pessimistic about your past, what you body was/is like, test levels, blah,blah,blah. Everyone of us is broken in some regard. The question is, do you have the mental fortitude to fix it… [/quote]

Why are any of you giving this jackass MORE advice when it is clear he doesn’t want it or doesn’t have the mental faculties to use it?

LeaNbig, Get on youtube and watch some of the pros train. It will give you ideas about ramping weights, repping, exercises, etc… Also, I would start drinking a recovery drink during training. That has recently made a big difference for me.

And like Christian Thibadeau says you might be “grinding” too much in your sets. If so, you might want to think about stopping your sets one or two reps early.

Pretty much every experienced guy posting in this thread had called you out, and you’ve called everyone of them ignorant, to some degree. What in the goddamn hell do you want to hear? You’re body sucks, your lifts suck, and you’re whining (Yes, you’re coming off as whiny) that it’s because of low T and shitty genetics. No body here with half a brain buys into that crock of shit. Unless you have a contributing medical condition, it should never have been brought up.

You’re tossing name’s of respected people around like you’ve got their books branded into your head. Who in the fuck are you? You’re pathetic. If you practiced even 1/4 of what they preached you’d be much farther along. Reading legit fitness articles and books for a year straight does not make you more knowledgeable then a guy who’s been training 5+ years with success.

You want to stay up on your high horse, shut the fuck up, lift, and prove us wrong.

[quote]23278 wrote:
Pretty much every experienced guy posting in this thread had called you out, and you’ve called everyone of them ignorant, to some degree. What in the goddamn hell do you want to hear? You’re body sucks, your lifts suck, and you’re whining (Yes, you’re coming off as whiny, and if you don’t think you are I’d hate to see what your idea of whining looks like) that it’s because of low T and shitty genetics. No body here with half a brain buys that crock of shit. Unless you have a contributing medical condition, it should never have been brought up.

You’re tossing name’s of respected people around like you’ve got their books branded into your head. Who in the fuck are you? You’re pathetic. If you practiced even 1/4 of what they preached you’d be much farther along. Reading legit fitness articles and books for a year straight does not make you more knowledgeable then a guy who’s been training 5+ years with success.

You want to stay up on your high horse, shut the fuck up, lift, and prove us wrong.

[/quote]

Best Post.

I like this guy more and more everyday.

/thread

People who really want it find a way. Those who still can’t…are likely not cut out for this shit.

Tough luck.

…and 23278…welcome to T-Cell.

[quote]Mateus wrote:
DUDE! WTF is with the “glass half empty” attitude. There are a few things that you need to realize. As you know (and have stated above) education and knowledge is the most powerful weapon that you can have. Every single person on this forum has spent countless hours/years educating themselves through several different methods. Without it, the time spent in the gym would be counter productive at best. EDUCATE YOURSELF! And don’t tell me that this is what you are doing with this thread. There are tons of different sources, websites, books, etc. Asking questions on this site is just scratching the surface my friend.

Figure out how to setup YOUR nutrition and make it work for YOU! NOBODY on this forum will be able to tell you how and what diet to use. Again, educate yourself. Tons of books out there to help with this. Check out “Girth Control” by Alan Aragon.

Your body, as you have seen, will not progress at the same rate. There will be weak points that require specialization and hard work. Trial and error is a mother fucker! You will find that it is mostly error, but in the end YOU will know YOUR body. Again educate yourself. This site alone has tons of articles. Read some. If you have already, read more. This is that trial and error part.

Lastly, if you are not patient enough to figure all this out then you will be on a different forum this time next year asking the same questions. Nothing is quick and you will NEVER see results over night. Put the tape measure in your nightstand and use it maybe once a month or every few months. Don’t be so damn pessimistic about your past, what you body was/is like, test levels, blah,blah,blah. Everyone of us is broken in some regard. The question is, do you have the mental fortitude to fix it… [/quote]

I know, I am just going to have to be patient. That’s all there is to it.

[quote]

WTF? Dude, you aren’t talking to uneducated people. I doubt you are any more educated than I am especially in matters concerning biology. Yes, in many instances, I would consider a person educated to an advanced degree in a health field who is also a bodybuilder could stand very well next to a nutritionist even though the people you mentioned do deserve credit for the work they have accomplished and their level of experience.[/quote]

Who said I am the one? I said you cannot be mentioned in the same breath as the guys I listed before, and that’s a fact.

So when they say X, and you say Y. X has more credibility. Is there something not clear there?

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]

WTF? Dude, you aren’t talking to uneducated people. I doubt you are any more educated than I am especially in matters concerning biology. Yes, in many instances, I would consider a person educated to an advanced degree in a health field who is also a bodybuilder could stand very well next to a nutritionist even though the people you mentioned do deserve credit for the work they have accomplished and their level of experience.[/quote]

Who said I am the one? I said you cannot be mentioned in the same breath as the guys I listed before, and that’s a fact.

So when they say X, and you say Y. X has more credibility. Is there something not clear there?[/quote]

Dude, please shut the fuck up. I don’t even follow those guys and have nothing against them. I’m a doctor, a DDS who specializes in oral surgery (that’s pretty much most of what I do). Yes, I would think someone with my background could stand toe to toe with a nutritionist even though I am sure I could learn something from those guys just like I am sure I have insights they don’t.

You comes across like a troll. I am pretty sure you are one now.

Please…fuck off.

[quote]23278 wrote:
Pretty much every experienced guy posting in this thread had called you out, and you’ve called everyone of them ignorant, to some degree. [/quote]

Name me one besides Professor X and gregron in which rather than refuting from the on-set, I’ve actually implemented what he’s said and failed at it. Thus, I’m taking an approach guided by someone who is FAR, FAR more knowledgable and proven.

Infact your advice, and mostly others, I’ve listened to and read.

I’m hearing what I is true from you guys. I just want the truth. The truth is I cannot be so impatient, and I have to have the mental strength to overcome.

Again, show me one place where I use it as an excuse. I’m simply stating some background info on myself, and one of the most pertinent issues(heck, the name of this fucking site) happens to be testosterone. I just thought I’d share.

If I figured it as an excuse, why would I diet, why would I train, why would I want to keep progressing?

I feel fantastic progressing for the past 12 weeks, but I know that time is so small and it’s about the long term plan. I’m just a new lifter being impatient. If you can’t see that, you’re obviously not reading thoroughly.

I’ve started for the past 12 weeks to implement them(which is half of my training time), and yes, I have been getting results which are very solid. + 16lbs and -.25inch from waist. Strength improving all across the board.

So please explain to me how you’re right on this.

I’ve read some, but I’ll take experience over that—I can agree. However, if Shelby or any of those guys tell me in an email something, and then Prof. X tells me the opposite. It’s confusing to be conflicted, and most importantly who do you trust?

[quote]You want to stay up on your high horse, shut the fuck up, lift, and prove us wrong.

[/quote]

What high horse? I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again-- I obviously need to improve. I merely asked for help. I say the term “low testosterone” and people go ape shit. It’s not going to stop me from progressing if that’s what you guys mean by me mentioning it.(and I’ve said this probably 20 times in this thread).

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]leaNbig wrote:

[quote]

WTF? Dude, you aren’t talking to uneducated people. I doubt you are any more educated than I am especially in matters concerning biology. Yes, in many instances, I would consider a person educated to an advanced degree in a health field who is also a bodybuilder could stand very well next to a nutritionist even though the people you mentioned do deserve credit for the work they have accomplished and their level of experience.[/quote]

Who said I am the one? I said you cannot be mentioned in the same breath as the guys I listed before, and that’s a fact.

So when they say X, and you say Y. X has more credibility. Is there something not clear there?[/quote]

Dude, please shut the fuck up. I don’t even follow those guys and have nothing against them. I’m a doctor, a DDS who specializes in oral surgery (that’s pretty much most of what I do). Yes, I would think someone with my background could stand toe to toe with a nutritionist even though I am sure I could learn something from those guys just like I am sure I have insights they don’t.

You comes across like a troll. I am pretty sure you are one now.

Please…fuck off.[/quote]

lol. Someone’s getting mad.

Listen, all I’m trying to say is this. I’ve read your threads and advice a lot, I implemented them and got quite fat. I wasn’t happy with that.

So when I make a thread in a different state of it, and you come in preaching the same nonsense and the cookie cutter formula you think works for every single BODY, I’m just trying to state that perhaps I’m different. You took offense to that and were quite beligerent.

Yes, I have a 40inch chest. Yes I bench my body weight. But everyone’s got to start somewhere. It’s like you guys woke up benching 185lbs. I’m a beginner, you’re taking everything I’m saying in the context of an advanced lifter.