[quote]leaNbig wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
I know you can’t fathom it, and it’s cause I’m low in definition of this site(tesosterone). I’m 19.
[/quote]
Wait…you have been clinically diagnosed with hypogonadism?[/quote]
No, not that I’ve been aware of at least. I got my blood test work done August of 2009, March of 2010, and just last week.
August of 2009 I was at about 350 ng/dl in tesosterone. I was 165 @ 15% body fat.
March of 2010, I was at about 282 ng/dl in testosterone. I was 183 @ 20% body fat.
June of 2010, I was at 492 ng/dl in testosterone. I was 172lbs @ 11.5% body fat.
I’ve made a commitment to stop stressing, stop giving little things so much detail, etc. One point I’m leaving out is that in ALL of these bloodworks my cortisol levels were tested and they were high(the average person’s morning cortisol level was my night time cortisol level).[/quote]
You do realize this means you have no excuse, right?
If I were you, I’d study this thread quite well:
Not to demean your knowledge, but just to iron out anything that we may miss here.
Other than that, there’s not much that can be said - it’s better to say WHAT to do, rather than what NOT to do.
As regards gains not being very lean, diet is the main culprit here. Aside from making sure you’re workout volume is high enough (I’m assuming you take every exercise to failure or near?), and you workout enough (e.g. at least 4 times per week)…then the other thing is food intake. How’s your macro nutrient breakdown (Protein/Carbs/Fat)? Don’t do anything extreme right now, if you are carb sensitive, maybe have lowish carbs but don’t cut them out completely (I believe that long term restricted carbs screws up hormone levels/insulin response/metabolism).
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Start with this.[/quote]
lol. I tried that already. I gained 20lbs in 4months to hit 183lbs, but I was at 20% body fat.
Now, I’ve done it the cleaner, slower route and went from 157(yes I cut back from 183 to 157) to 173lbs with no change in body fat. My stomach gains fat much faster than the normal “stomach is the last place to go, first place to come” guy, and I’ve had to accept this because of cortisol problems.
You can discredit me for some bad genetic points, but as I’m trying to explain, I’m trying hard. [/quote]
You are also making poor decisions. There is no way in hell you should have dropped back to 157 like that. You would have bee better off holding that higher weight for a while and cleaning up your diet. This yo yo bullshit does NOT help you if you are a newb. Save that for when you are already big.
You are lowER on the reference range but you aren’t someone that needs treatment. Go pick up some DAA and give it a run.
You just need time, intelligent diet, and a lot of hard work. Or keep telling people it’s because you have “low test”
You seem to pull the genetic card quite a lot. We all know how important it is, but at this level, you shouldn’t even be worrying about that shit. Like everyone said, gain mass overall and stop worrying about the little stuff like how long your arms are or how high/low your test or cortisol levels are etc.
[quote]
You are also making poor decisions. There is no way in hell you should have dropped back to 157 like that. You would have bee better off holding that higher weight for a while and cleaning up your diet. This yo yo bullshit does NOT help you if you are a newb. Save that for when you are already big.[/quote]
But I have to be happy, don’t I?
I was miserable at 183lbs. I felt ashamed going to class, going to the gym. I had to do what would make me happy and that’s the lose the fat. Once I got past that stage, I had to look to re-bulk PROPERLY.
Look at how bad my T was when I was fat, I felt like an absolute mess and was depressed. When I hit about 157lbs, I gained so much confidence in myself in actually going out, etc. For a 19 year old kid it’s not healthy to be deprived. So I had to make myself socially comfortable.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
You are lowER on the reference range but you aren’t someone that needs treatment. Go pick up some DAA and give it a run.
You just need time, intelligent diet, and a lot of hard work. Or keep telling people it’s because you have “low test”[/quote]
I only tell people low test when they see how small my bones are. Before I mentioned everything without saying a single word about a hormone problem. Professor X and even the other guy couldn’t fathom my low measurements. I had to explain why.
And if anything, hasn’t this thread shown you that I’ve come through the trial & error part?
I’ve understood for the least part my body in terms of dieting; carb, protein, fat manipulation, etc. I know 16lbs gain isn’t much, but remember I have lost a quarter inch on my waist. And the last time I “bulked”, I gained 20lbs and gained about 3.5 inches on my waist.
I need a lot of time, and a lot of consistency. I’m not using low test as an excuse, if I did, I’d give up. But I’m back it and working.
I’m making this thread to help my arms out.
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
And if anything, hasn’t this thread shown you that I’ve come through the trial & error part?
[/quote]
Bullshit. In fact, the very fact that you wrote that tells us you don’t know shit about “trial and error”. Any huge guy will tell you they are STILL learning about how their body responds. NO ONE has “come through the trial & error part”. It is on going…for fucking ever.
Quit whining, eat more, quit eating junk food if it makes you fat and gain some fucking weight.
You have low self esteem problems…not “low test problems”.
You are focused on arms while we see the issue as much more global. You won’t have impressive arms with your overall stats. They may be a trouble body part in terms of genetic predisposition but bottom line is you need a lot of muscle mass to fill out your frame. You got fat bulking, clearly the method you chose there didn’t work. Be smarter and learn from your mistakes and carry on.
What sort of numbers are you putting up for(let’s say 5-10 reps) close grip presses, dips, skull crushers? Same thing with ez bar, preacher and dumbbell curls?
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
You seem to pull the genetic card quite a lot. We all know how important it is, but at this level, you shouldn’t even be worrying about that shit. Like everyone said, gain mass overall and stop worrying about the little stuff like how long your arms are or how high/low your test or cortisol levels are etc.[/quote]
I only pulled it when Professor X and D didn’t fathom my measurements.
And I shouldn’t worry about my poor hormonal profile? You do realize this is based off of genetics & diet. I’ve got to work the diet part to a T, and it was very important and good I saw my genetic part of it. It helped me realize where I need help.
And you do worry about such stuff when you spend money on supplements, read about training, and use true & tried methods-- yet to no avail. I’ve stopped spending on supplements, and am going to invest in Shelby Starnes at the end of the summer.
And just because I had level X or level Y doesn’t mean I cannot grow. I’ve said it before, anyone with any sort of levels can achieve a certain level of fitness.
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
Professor X and even the other guy couldn’t fathom my low measurements. I had to explain why.
[/quote]
I’m 20 years older than you with lower test than you, went from fatass 242 to 170 then worked in the gym back up to 250ish (adding almost 5" to my arms) in 2.5 years, all while maintaining a career where I travel a lot, a band (and side producing gig), a multi-child family, and a major fly-fishing and yardwork addiction.
I apologize if I’m callous to non-extreme hormonal excuses, food excuses, and diet excuses. I’m just a beginner here.
Honestly, this reeks of “didn’t work hard in the gym”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
And if anything, hasn’t this thread shown you that I’ve come through the trial & error part?
[/quote]
Bullshit. In fact, the very fact that you wrote that tells us you don’t know shit about “trial and error”. Any huge guy will tell you they are STILL learning about how their body responds. NO ONE has “come through the trial & error part”. It is on going…for fucking ever.
Quit whining, eat more, quit eating junk food if it makes you fat and gain some fucking weight.
You have low self esteem problems…not “low test problems”.[/quote]
Where did I say I have fully understood my body and past the trial & error part? I’m simply stating I progressed. You can’t argue with results here.
163lbs to 183lbs. 6% body fat gain. 20% body fat.
157lbs to 173lbs. No body fat % gain. 12% body fat.
Spin it whatever way you want; " Oh, still a light weight, etc.", but you cannot deny that there’s progress there. From the amount of respect you get on the boards, I’d think you’d know you don’t just wake up big. I have made improvements.
You do realize I was 200lbs @ 30% body fat about 18 months ago right? And 30 is far less generous, I was closer to 35%.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
You are focused on arms while we see the issue as much more global. You won’t have impressive arms with your overall stats. They may be a trouble body part in terms of genetic predisposition but bottom line is you need a lot of muscle mass to fill out your frame. You got fat bulking, clearly the method you chose there didn’t work. Be smarter and learn from your mistakes and carry on.
What sort of numbers are you putting up for(let’s say 5-10 reps) close grip presses, dips, skull crushers? Same thing with ez bar, preacher and dumbbell curls?[/quote]
Yeah, I need a lot more LBM. I just wish my arms were a bit proportionate. I have a very long shoulder/back clavicle, so I where larges, but my arms are so thin it just looks bad.
As for lifts
Close Grip Bench- 150lbs x 6 reps
Dips- 25lb + BW x 6 reps
Skullcrushers- 75lbs x 6 reps
Dumebll Curl- 35lbs x 6 reps
Barbell Curl- 75lbs x 6 reps
Yes, I know, very weak. But as you can imagine, I was SIGNIFICANTLY lower when I started 12 weeks ago.
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
And if anything, hasn’t this thread shown you that I’ve come through the trial & error part?
[/quote]
Bullshit. In fact, the very fact that you wrote that tells us you don’t know shit about “trial and error”. Any huge guy will tell you they are STILL learning about how their body responds. NO ONE has “come through the trial & error part”. It is on going…for fucking ever.
Quit whining, eat more, quit eating junk food if it makes you fat and gain some fucking weight.
You have low self esteem problems…not “low test problems”.[/quote]
Where did I say I have fully understood my body and past the trial & error part? I’m simply stating I progressed. You can’t argue with results here.
163lbs to 183lbs. 6% body fat gain. 20% body fat.
157lbs to 173lbs. No body fat % gain. 12% body fat.
Spin it whatever way you want; " Oh, still a light weight, etc.", but you cannot deny that there’s progress there. From the amount of respect you get on the boards, I’d think you’d know you don’t just wake up big. I have made improvements.
You do realize I was 200lbs @ 30% body fat about 18 months ago right? And 30 is far less generous, I was closer to 35%.
[/quote]
Dude, people who think like you will never make much progress.
I’m done here. I’ve seen guys like you 5,000 times over in the last 10 years on this site. YOU ARE ALL THE SAME. We get it, you have “weak genetics”…and the fact that I looked like fucking Urkle before I started lifting means nothing.
Part of the diagnoses for arms reaches far beyond just exercise.
Having said that though, try changing the rep range. Like if you’ve been doing lowish reps, try high reps for a while (e.g. 10-12). Just don’t use that as an excuse to go really light and not have much intensity. With higher reps, you can do them more frequently no problem (I’d shoot for 2-3x/week as a beginner).
As for your stomach size increase compared to bodyweight, 3.5inches per 20lbs bodyweight is actually about “normal” (at the high end, but still not abnormal). We did a little survey on here a while back, and for the average person, for every 5-10lbs of bodyweight increase, their waist girth increased by an inch:
When you become more experienced (especially with diet/workout intensity), this ratio will likely get better.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’m 20 years older than you with lower test than you, went from fatass 242 to 170 then worked in the gym back up to 250ish (adding almost 5" to my arms) in 2.5 years, all while maintaining a career where I travel a lot, a band (and side producing gig), a multi-child family, and a major fly-fishing and yardwork addiction.
I apologize if I’m callous to non-extreme hormonal excuses, food excuses, and diet excuses. I’m just a beginner here. [/quote]
Ok. I was 18 when I started 200lbs of pure fat when I stated. I’m 19, have no parents, work for my own food, clothes, etc. earned a scholarship to a top rated university in the nation. I don’t see how this has to do with anything?
And I haven’t skipped a meal, training session, cardio session, etc. too.
Honestly, this reeks of “didn’t work hard in the gym”.[/quote]
I worked hard in the gym. I just did no cardio man. And ate too many bad foods.
I’m learning how to bulk again, I just need help with direct arm training. Everything else I’m getting to grow at a very solid rate. I need more tiem though, it’s only been 12 weeks.
[quote]
Dude, people who think like you will never make much progress.
I’m done here. I’ve seen guys like you 5,000 times over in the last 10 years on this site. YOU ARE ALL THE SAME. We get it, you have “weak genetics”…and the fact that I looked like fucking Urkle before I started lifting means nothing.[/quote]
Never make progress? Didn’t I just show you significant progress. 200 lbs @ 30-35% body fat to 173lbs @ 12% body fat in a year & half. That’s not progress?
183lbs @ 19% body fat in March 2010 to 173lbs @ 12% body fat in July 2010 isn’t progress?
I’d love to see just 1 client that you’ve preached your “ways & methods” too that has acheived the progress you advertise. Everything that I’ve stated and worked under is via Shelby Starnes, so when you dismiss what I’m stating, you’re dismissing arguably the top prep coach out there.
I’m putting weak genetics behind me, I’m simply stating here I need help with my arms. Forget I said a single thing about genetics, just worry about how do I keep making consistent improvements. That’s all I want. I guess all I’m learning here is to keep going at, keep adding (QUALITY) weight and strength and you’re arms will eventually grow.
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
Close Grip Bench- 150lbs x 6 reps
Dips- 25lb + BW x 6 reps
Skullcrushers- 75lbs x 6 reps
Dumebll Curl- 35lbs x 6 reps
Barbell Curl- 75lbs x 6 reps
Yes, I know, very weak. But as you can imagine, I was SIGNIFICANTLY lower when I started 12 weeks ago.[/quote]
Over the next two years your goals should be as follows
Close Grip 295x12
Dips +135 x10
Skull Crusher 115x15
Dumbbell Curl 60x10
Barbell Curl 115x10
Eat primarily good bodybuilding foods(like by hiring Shelby) and do somem form of cardio on days you don’t train.
That’s it. I know you want to hear about sets/reps/frequency and all that but just about any program will work so just get to it and stay off the boards with the woah is me stuff. 12 weeks is nothing, 52-104 weeks is something a little different.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Part of the diagnoses for arms reaches far beyond just exercise.
Having said that though, try changing the rep range. Like if you’ve been doing lowish reps, try high reps for a while (e.g. 12-15). Just don’t use that as an excuse to go really light and not have much intensity. With higher reps, you can do them more frequently no problem (I’d shoot for 2-3x/week as a beginner).
As for your stomach size increase compared to bodyweight, 3.5inches per 20lbs bodyweight is actually about “normal” (at the high end, but still not abnormal). We did a little survey on here a while back, and for the average person, for every 5-10lbs of bodyweight increase, their waist girth increased by an inch:
When you become more experienced (especially with diet/workout intensity), this ratio will likely get better.[/quote]
Interesting points. Thanks for sharing these. One thing though;
-
I’ve gained 16lbs in the last 12 weeks. And have gone from a 32.25 inch waist to a 32 inch waist. Doesn’t this go against the add weight, add girth thing? I don’t expect to continue to lose inches off the waist as i get bigger(never really did), but what I’m really learning is nothing is linear.
-
3.5 inches may not be bad. But when you’re going from a 34.5inch waist to 38 inch waist it goes from bad to terrible.
[quote]leaNbig wrote:
[quote]
Dude, people who think like you will never make much progress.
I’m done here. I’ve seen guys like you 5,000 times over in the last 10 years on this site. YOU ARE ALL THE SAME. We get it, you have “weak genetics”…and the fact that I looked like fucking Urkle before I started lifting means nothing.[/quote]
Never make progress? Didn’t I just show you significant progress. 200 lbs @ 30-35% body fat to 173lbs @ 12% body fat in a year & half. That’s not progress?
183lbs @ 19% body fat in March 2010 to 173lbs @ 12% body fat in July 2010 isn’t progress?
I’d love to see just 1 client that you’ve preached your “ways & methods” too that has acheived the progress you advertise. Everything that I’ve stated and worked under is via Shelby Starnes, so when you dismiss what I’m stating, you’re dismissing arguably the top prep coach out there.
I’m putting weak genetics behind me, I’m simply stating here I need help with my arms. Forget I said a single thing about genetics, just worry about how do I keep making consistent improvements. That’s all I want. I guess all I’m learning here is to keep going at, keep adding (QUALITY) weight and strength and you’re arms will eventually grow.[/quote]
I couldn’t care less how much you weigh. With a 40" chest, it is pretty damn clear that you have not made that much in the way of muscle mass gains at all. Your mindset will hold you back. People who get big don’t convince themselves their testosterone is too low to make a shit load of progress unless they actually have a clinical case of hypogonadism.
My guess is, your idea of “lifting heavy” is not what most of us are referring to.