[quote]shogunassassin wrote:
Check out the comments. Some douche actually had the gall to suggest Kroc’s form was shit and that he might be “cheating himself”.
Hahahahaha.[/quote]The moronic comments at youtube really astound me sometimes. It’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they seem to arrogantly demonstrate their ignorance to the world…
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
We all apologize for critiqueing your hero. As since he answers emails and is big it is obvious that there is absolutely nothing that he can do wrong.[/quote]
Well I have never called him my hero before but I suppose if I were to give somebody that label he could certainly fit the bill. I never said he could do no wrong, I just also think that most of the people on this forum are in no place to criticize his form because he has much more training knowledge and experience.
Instead of saying, “sorry but those aren’t pullups”, maybe more people on this board should be saying, “hey he’s a world champion with years and years of training experience… maybe I should start thinking about doing pull-ups like that.”
What Jim Wendler posted was satire and it was funny.
Saying: "If you are gonna post a video on yourtube claiming you are doing "chin"ups then you’d better be doing chinups. Not forehead raises. Backup the claim or claim something else, I would suggest a title with a bit more accuracy. "
or
“I wonder how many he can do if his form is at least decent. Fact of the matter is a correct pull up is done with the chin to the bar and to full extension at the bottom. No arguments accepted.”
or
“What I have a problem with is calling these half-pull-ups full pull-ups. 33 pull-ups is an impressive feat. 33 half or quarter ones isn’t.”
or
"just don’t disingeneously brag on you tube that you can do 33 pull-ups, "
And basically calling his character into question is not funny, it’s just kinda sad that people would rather knock somebody down then take the opportunity to learn.
Your right I was just being an asshole. Sprained my ankle today and home bored.
I do think what he did was impressive. My first reaction was holly shit. After reading this thread I do see what people are saying about not being complete. However, I agree with those that said his grip is too wide to put his head over the bar for an effective exercise. It appears that his scapula and lower traps were getting a great workout(TUT for 33reps has to be insane). So much so that when I go back to doing pull-ups I want to add these the way he did them, maybe I’ll get a back like that.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Your right I was just being an asshole. Sprained my ankle today and home bored.
I do think what he did was impressive. My first reaction was holly shit. After reading this thread I do see what people are saying about not being complete. However, I agree with those that said his grip is too wide to put his head over the bar for an effective exercise. It appears that his scapula and lower traps were getting a great workout(TUT for 33reps has to be insane). So much so that when I go back to doing pull-ups I want to add these the way he did them, maybe I’ll get a back like that.[/quote]
Yeah it’s straight man. The thing that annoys me is that certain people are acting like he is some sort of liar and is trying to like… cheat people with his evil partial reps. He is not making some claim to be the greatest in the world at pull-ups, he’s just showing a video of his training.
I mean, it would be kind of like JJ Redick posting up a video of him going through a jump-shooting workout and people criticizing his technique… while he makes 20 shots in a row.
As far as the actually pull-up technique that he uses in the video, what I have taken out of that (and talking to him at the seminar) is that the most important thing is to really feel the lats working and try to get tension on them and a stretch at the bottom of the movement. If you see him doing the movement you can really see the muscle moving and it is actually kind of crazy how much motor control he has on that muscle and I’m sure that has a lot to do with the size of his back. I’ve been doing them with a wider grip like that and really trying to focus on working the back rather than the arms, although I go through a bigger range of motion simply because I don’t have the mind-muscle connection that he does to be able to keep tension and work the muscle like that. I actually was at lot weaker like that at first since it basically takes the arms completely out of the movement but I’m getting stronger. I’ll say that between those pullups and “Kroc rows” my back has gotten bigger and stronger than ever before.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
malonetd wrote:
JRT6 wrote:
If you are gonna post a video on yourtube claiming you are doing "chin"ups then you’d better be doing chinups. Not forehead raises. Backup the claim or claim something else, I would suggest a title with a bit more accuracy.
Or better yet go on the Louie Simmons website and claim you can squat 500lbs for 20 reps then post a video where you are an inch or two above parallel and see what happens.
An “inch or two above parallel”? Are you serious? You’d probably be told you’re pretty strong for doing 500 for 20 reps while being only slightly above parallel.
Some people don’t have a clue. Strong recognizes strong.
I think Louies response might actually be… “what the fuck are you doing 20 reps for?”[/quote]
Ha. You’re probably right.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I’m not even sure why I’m wasting my time here but the people who are attacking Matt Kroc are fucking ridiculous and this just shows how 95% of the T-Nation forums have become a fucking joke.
Matt Kroc is a world champion in his weight class and a bunch of keyboard yahoo warriors are critiquing his form. Awesome. I’m sure he’ll be glad to know that you guys have all this valuable advice to offer him. For christ’s sake, the man survived cancer to become a world champion, I think he knows what good form in and what isn’t.
The sad thing is that he’s such a legit guy. At the Boston seminar he stayed for like 2 hours extra just sitting around and talking to like 7 or 8 guys, just shooting the shit and dropping random knowledge. I can just about guarantee that anybody could send him an e-mail an ask him for training advice and he’d take time out of his day to help other people with their training.
Yet we got people on here basically calling him a liar and attacking him just so they can feel better about the 10 “perfect” pull-ups that they can do.
We all apologize for critiqueing your hero. As since he answers emails and is big it is obvious that there is absolutely nothing that he can do wrong.
We will not apologize for the satire, that is entirely too funny. Are they wrong for posting a satire too?
[/quote]
the satire? you mean wendler’s post? Jeez, did you even read his sign off? Where he wrote “I had to do it for all the people that hated on my friend,” … who do you think his friend is you moron? The last thing that Jim Wendler gives a crap about is the form on pullups used by a guy who is opening with a 1000 lb squat tomorrow.
I think this fits nicely in with the sentiment of this thread…
I think Kroc looks like James Lafferty.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
I think this fits nicely in with the sentiment of this thread…
EliteFTS.com -Jackass - YouTube [/quote]
brilliant. he needs his own reality show.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
the satire? you mean wendler’s post? Jeez, did you even read his sign off? Where he wrote “I had to do it for all the people that hated on my friend,” … who do you think his friend is you moron? The last thing that Jim Wendler gives a crap about is the form on pullups used by a guy who is opening with a 1000 lb squat tomorrow.[/quote]
Soooo genius… what are you saying that its not a satire and he was being seriuos?(pointless post you must really love to hear yourself type)
Jtrinsey, Yeah there are times when bodybuilders do things differently and people don’t take into account why. Like bertil in this clip Brutal Bertil Fox Training from GMV BODYBUILDING - YouTube looks like he’s doing a dumb ass version of an upright row/clean, but it was necessary for him to build his traps. Long as your not breaking bones or tearing joints there really is nothing wrong with changing exercises.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
the satire? you mean wendler’s post? Jeez, did you even read his sign off? Where he wrote “I had to do it for all the people that hated on my friend,” … who do you think his friend is you moron? The last thing that Jim Wendler gives a crap about is the form on pullups used by a guy who is opening with a 1000 lb squat tomorrow.
Soooo genius… what are you saying that its not a satire and he was being seriuos?(pointless post you must really love to hear yourself type)
[/quote]
my point was that I think Wendler is more satirizing the people who got up in arms about Kroc’s ROM, rather than satirizing Kroc himself. More about breaking kroc’s balls by fanning the flames than anything else.
Sorry for the ‘moron’ name-calling, that was unnecessary.
I think this video shows the ideology behind his training. Found it while browsing through their videos.
He uses the tools he has to make his total go up, and it seems to be working amazingly. He’s making his body more efficient for the goal he is trying to achieve, if the workouts he does help achieve that goal and they’re safe, then their right for him.
“If you’re improving, you’re doing something right.” - Kroc
[quote]malonetd wrote:
JRT6 wrote:
If you are gonna post a video on yourtube claiming you are doing "chin"ups then you’d better be doing chinups. Not forehead raises. Backup the claim or claim something else, I would suggest a title with a bit more accuracy.
Or better yet go on the Louie Simmons website and claim you can squat 500lbs for 20 reps then post a video where you are an inch or two above parallel and see what happens.
An “inch or two above parallel”? Are you serious? You’d probably be told you’re pretty strong for doing 500 for 20 reps while being only slightly above parallel.
Some people don’t have a clue. Strong recognizes strong.[/quote]
I agree and strong people recognize that when someone claims they are doing something, they actually do it. Not hopping to get partial credit.
No one is claiming that guy isn’t strong, they are claiming he didn’t do a chinup. There is no debate what a chinup is, it’s a plain as you can get. Chin over the bar whether it’s called a chinup or a pullup. It’s even in the title of the exercise. Even weak guys can recognize that.
[quote]JRT6 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
JRT6 wrote:
If you are gonna post a video on yourtube claiming you are doing "chin"ups then you’d better be doing chinups. Not forehead raises. Backup the claim or claim something else, I would suggest a title with a bit more accuracy.
Or better yet go on the Louie Simmons website and claim you can squat 500lbs for 20 reps then post a video where you are an inch or two above parallel and see what happens.
An “inch or two above parallel”? Are you serious? You’d probably be told you’re pretty strong for doing 500 for 20 reps while being only slightly above parallel.
Some people don’t have a clue. Strong recognizes strong.
I agree and strong people recognize that when someone claims they are doing something, they actually do it. Not hopping to get partial credit.
No one is claiming that guy isn’t strong, they are claiming he didn’t do a chinup. There is no debate what a chinup is, it’s a plain as you can get. Chin over the bar whether it’s called a chinup or a pullup. It’s even in the title of the exercise. Even weak guys can recognize that.
[/quote]
I just didn’t like your Louie Simmons-squat comparison. Five hundred for 20 reps is strong even if you don’t hit parallel.
Of course it is which was the point of my comparison. The debate between parallel and ATG is contentionous enough as it is. Someone claims they are doing a remarkable squat and are not hitting at least parallel, they are gonna get it. Same with this pull up. If someone claims they are doing a remakable feat, and I would say 30 full range pullups with no kipping is harder than 500lb 20 rep parallel squats, then they should do it.
Gripping so wide that one can’t pull themselves up past their forehead dosen’t change anything besides being pointless. Torgueing rotator cuffs just to use IMO an ineffective hand postion.
[quote]JRT6 wrote:
Gripping so wide that one can’t pull themselves up past their forehead dosen’t change anything besides being pointless. [/quote]
But it’s NOT pointless, he believes, and I think with good reason, that it’s helped to build his competitive lifts.
If this were a pullup competition I could see your point, and probably agree with you. But it’s not - it’s training. This reminds me of when ronnie’s videos “the unbelievable” and “the cost of redemption” came out a few years ago and you had people talking about what poor form he used bouncing the weights and how he didnt go through a full ROM … who cares? Ronnie doesnt compete in any of those disciplines, they just help him achieve his goal … the same way Matt is doing here.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
you assmonkeys need to stop nitpicking this crap and hit the gym. [/quote]
pwned. seriously, arguing about whether or not this guy’s pullups are full ROM or not? Obviously they aren’t…
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
JRT6 wrote:
Gripping so wide that one can’t pull themselves up past their forehead dosen’t change anything besides being pointless.
[/quote]
Seriously dumb post.
If you ain’t at least touching your chin it’s not a chin up plain and simple. If you label your video “30 chins” and in fact are doing pullups then maybe this whole thread was pointless from the start.
Bringing up all the stuff about Kroc and who and what he is and what he has done was nothning but a red herring. The point of the thread and the debate was that video and nothing else.
Here is a Kroc video no one can debate:
