Juijitsu And Weightlifting

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

I would be interested to hear how the grapplers on this board manage their grappling and weightlifting.

I train in Brazillian juijitsu/submission wrestling. I am 5’10" 170lbs. I train two to three days a week.

For a while i was doing Waterbury’s TBT program. After a few weeks i just felt tired all the time and not motivated. Three days a week of grappling plus three days a week of weights, in addition to a day job and trying to keep up guitar practice was just to much.

I want to continue lifting, as i want more strength/explosiveness for grappling. I was thinking about cutting down to lifting two days a week, perhaps three days if i occasionally skip a grappling class.

The simplicity of Dan John’s programs appeal to me. I was also thinking about picking Mike Mahler’s MMA DVD for when i want some outdoor training.

anton

2

I was just reading a book on wrestling by Dan Gable, the legendary wrestler and coach. During the season, at least in the later stages of it, he had his wrestlers lift twice a week. One was light circuit training, the other heavy lifting.
Another thing you could try would be to do maybe one lift hard after training jiu-jitsu on two of the three training days. So after one session do “Hindu” Squats, another clean and press dumbbells. Then add one day of full-body lifting on a day you don’t grapple. Four days total between weights and grappling should be plenty of exercise.

3

see if you can find the thread for Judo and weights.

Much of this would be relevant to yourself.

4

Another idea is to check out Joe Defranco. He has wrestler’s workouts and I think advises 2-3 days a week, low volume. Check the Q&A. Mike Mahler would be good too. I think a true bodybuilding workout isn’t ideal for martial art guys. The volume is high and one or the other has to take priority. Low volume, heavy total body workouts seem to work well for me.

5

Plenty of great advice given by the previous posters.

When I grappled a few years ago I always made sure I trained the “grappling muscles.” I considered those to be:

  1. Grip
  2. Traps
  3. Biceps
  4. Hips

Sure other muscles are important too. But…I found that those four were primarily responsible for many (if not most) of the grappling moves, either on or off the mat.

Build your program around those four areas and I think you will form a good base.

6

Sorry…and to be more specific to your question: I would train with weights twice per week. Any more than that and I think it starts to interferes with grappling. Are you a grappler who lifts, or a lifter who grapples? Obviously you want to be a grappler who lifts.

7

SANDBAG SANDBAG SANDBAG.

Can you say SANDBAG!!

Work this in, with some core lifts, and mat practice and your strength etc will be plenty for the grappling. As far as direct bi and grip work, your not trying to bend nails so the SB and gi work should be adequate.

BIG core lifts, power and strength, tied into some majour functional (even strongman if you can) type training. (used to push the car around the car park and SB work (good book from iron mind)will be enough. get the technique bjj training in.

8

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Sorry…and to be more specific to your question: I would train with weights twice per week. Any more than that and I think it starts to interferes with grappling. Are you a grappler who lifts, or a lifter who grapples? Obviously you want to be a grappler who lifts. [/quote]

I must agree with ZEB here. A mistake i made, which left me overtrained was to try to be both.

In reality, the usable strength when on the floor is often about application and reserve (as you now) ie where and when and how much. What ZEB says is a good place to start. maybe think outside a 7 day rotation, make a 10 day rotation, just dont expect massive gains in lift strength, but i am sure your sports strength will go up plenty.

9

Thanks for the advice guys. I think the best thing i can do to improve my grappling is to spend more time grappling.

But on the strength/conditioning side of things i defenitely think two days a week of lifting will be good. I will check out the sandbag stuff. I could keep one in my car, and whenever i am out at the park or something and its nice weather just pull out the sand bag and go to town.

anton

10

Its interesting how that works. When I got the message about heavy compound lifts and grip work my strength in the dojo shot up and I can handle myself pretty well with some of the big guys. But my lift numbers weren’t/ aren’t anything to write home about. The method is important here like the technique in the art. I agree fully that its really hard to be both a ‘fighter’ and a serious lifter. You have to pick one. Sandbag is a great idea.

11

I agree w/ what’s been said, two day a week of lifting is fine. Deads/PullUps one day, Squats and bench the next. I’d do abs after each. You gym time should be an hour at the most, not including warm up.

12

[quote]Robert Monti wrote:
I agree w/ what’s been said, two day a week of lifting is fine. Deads/PullUps one day, Squats and bench the next. I’d do abs after each. You gym time should be an hour at the most, not including warm up. [/quote]

Just to add on of what Robert said, strength work 2 twice /wk with compound lifts and if you are competing then change to power endurance and muscular endurance (PE/ME) workout as time gets closer to the day.

If applicable to you, for the PE/ME phase I recommend high reps KB/DB swing/clean & jerk/snatch for whole body, alternate KB/DB floor press for chest, Renegade rows or towel chins for back and finish with some core work. (Well, you get the idea)

As mentioned above, Mike Mahler’s MMA workout would give you some very good ideas. I also recommend Steve Maxwell’s conditioning workout.

13

Now basically i am a Shotokan practioner but I wrestled nationally and internationally while in college so I always had a love for grappling.

I started to take seminars from Rickson Gracie over 6 years ago. i live in China now so haven’t had a seminar with him in about three or four years. Rickson doesn’t (or didn’t) believe in weight lifting with jj. He did body weight stuff - sand bags (as above ), etc.

So if not lifting is good enough for Rickson…

14

[quote]gonta wrote:
Rickson doesn’t (or didn’t) believe in weight lifting with jj. He did body weight stuff - sand bags (as above), etc.

So if not lifting is good enough for Rickson…[/quote]

… but it works for some other in the Garcie family e.g. Royce Garcie and Co. have written “SuperFit” and Martin Rooney has written “Training for Warriors” based on Renzo Gracie’s Workout. Both books provide fighter’s workout with a mixture of weights, plyometrics, cardio and conditioning work.

I guess lifting or not (and/or how you do it) is really a personal matter? e.g. Rickson thinks it is good enough for him to do just sandbag work?

Would like to know what gonta and others think about this.

15

[quote]tones wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys. I think the best thing i can do to improve my grappling is to spend more time grappling.

But on the strength/conditioning side of things i defenitely think two days a week of lifting will be good. I will check out the sandbag stuff. I could keep one in my car, and whenever i am out at the park or something and its nice weather just pull out the sand bag and go to town.

anton [/quote]

Here’s what I’ve found to be a really simple but effective sandbag workout for grapplers.

  1. Clean and press the sandbag 10 sets of 3
  2. Bear hug the dandbag and go as fast as you can for 50 yards. Repeat 10 times.

That’s it.

16

[quote]geekboy wrote:
gonta wrote:
Rickson doesn’t (or didn’t) believe in weight lifting with jj. He did body weight stuff - sand bags (as above), etc.

So if not lifting is good enough for Rickson…

… but it works for some other in the Garcie family e.g. Royce Garcie and Co. have written “SuperFit” and Martin Rooney has written “Training for Warriors” based on Renzo Gracie’s Workout. Both books provide fighter’s workout with a mixture of weights, plyometrics, cardio and conditioning work.

I guess lifting or not (and/or how you do it) is really a personal matter? e.g. Rickson thinks it is good enough for him to do just sandbag work?

Would like to know what gonta and others think about this.[/quote]

I didn’t say he just did sand bags but what i remember from talking to him was weightlifting per se was not a priority for him.

As you mentioned for Renzo the plyos, cardio, etc. seem the central past of his conditioning. look at all the Gracies - non are big as in weightlifting big but all are strong and wirey. Rickson loved to do pullups, chinups, drag tires- you know what I mean - anything that involved body weight or a big difficult weight

Personally i love weight lifting but the wl and karate are just things I do now - I don’t compete any more. So whether wl interferes with my progress in ma doesn’t matter to me. But there is no doubt that big muscles are of little importance in fighting - strength of muscles and quickness wins hands down - especially on the ground.

Furtheromre, the time you spend in the gym is not improving your fighting skills which afterall is rickson’s or maybe your bread and butter.

Now he may have changed that stance as it is few years since i have talked to him. Checkout his website - he used to post training regimes.

Also want to say is rickson is one cool and helpful guy - would definitely want him on my side in a fight.

Anyone know - is he still fighting?

17

Rickson Gracie is retired, more or less. Although rumors pop up all the time it logic dictates he won’t fight again. Although he is a legend in the game I wouldn’t not skip weight training just because Rickson chose to. He’s not your typical athlete.
If you’re planning to compete in sub tourneys or fight MMA you definitely should weight train. Even if it is for the simple fact that most of your competition does or will be. Technique, flexibilty and endurance are all very important, more so than strength I would say, but this does not mean you don’t want to be strong. If all of those elements are equal and you meet a guy who weight trains intelligently for sport, there’s a good chance you’ll be doin you tappin quick.

18

Ask Ray Benermerito about jui juitsu, he has some funny stories.

19

Personally I lift Hard/Heavy 3x’s per week and I train BJJ/MMA 4-5 days per week. You’ll do best if you set up a long term plan in regards to traing BJJ and weightlifting together. Figure out what you lack and start there. Are you easily overpowered on the mat? Are you bull for the first minute and dead after that? Do you lack flexibilty? How is your hip movement? Grip? Any weak spots/injuries? Is your technique not up to par and you’re looking to compensate with strength? A very common practice I’ve been guilty of myself.
Increasing you work capacity will most likely be your first priority. There’s a ton of good info on GPP and the like in previous articles.
Too many variables to suggest an exact routine but I hope this helps.

20

Have any of your seen the Rickson Gracie Choke DVD? Its pretty good, has some good footage of Rickson doing his excercises, etc.

I am going to stick to weight training as a complement to my juijitsu. Being that i am smaller i need all the help i can get. My technique is getting better, but some extra strength wont hurt.

I have cut down the gym to two days a week, and am thinking about getting/making some sandbags sometime soon.

anton