Jiu Jitsu and Lifting

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

I have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for close to 6 months and have been struggling recently trying to find a balance between the gym and rolling. Initially I was concentrating on hypertrophy with Jiu Jitsu as a hobby and substitute for cardio. Recently Jiu Jitsu has become my main focus, although I still love the gym and moving some weight around.

I tried have tried Quattro Dynamo and Jiu Jitsu and found it to be taxing and I was not able to fully recover, which subsequently led to some injuries and 2 months off of both. Since then I have been trying to find a balance between rolling and the gym. For the last week I have been trying a new schedule which goes as follows:

Monday: Jiu- Jitsu (1 hour)

Tuesday: Gym
Back Squat 5x3
Deadlift 6x3 or 5x4
Wide-grip to Neck Bench Press 5x5
Bent-Over Rows 4x6
Weighted Dips 4x8
Cable Crunches 3(center/left/right)x15

Wednesday: Jui-Jitsu (1 Hour)

Thursday: Gym
Front Squat 5x5
Conventional Bench Press 5x5
Snatch Grip Deadlift 5x5
High Pulls 5x6
DB Curls 4x6
Weighted Hanging Leg Raises 3(center/left/right)x10

Friday: Jiu Jitsu (1.5 hours)

Saturday: GPP (a la Zach Even-Esh) 1-1.5 hours
Sprint Work
Sled Work
Sand Bags (cleans, push-presses, carries and throws)
Pull/Chin-Ups

Sunday: REST, Eat, Sleep

I try to go as heavy as possible and stick to low reps mostly due to my lack technique in Jiu Jitsu which requires me to rely heavily on strength. Also I try to stick to compound movements because they have worked well for me in the past and I am not really a fan of isolation work (except curls which I think can help in stopping an armbar if you can get there in time).

I plan on possibly keeping this schedule (if it works) for the next 2 months at which time I would re-evaluate my goals and progress and proceed from there. Obviously, at any signs of over training or lurking injury I would make adjustments to the plan.

I am curious as to what you guys think about this schedule and whether or not I am compromising either my time in the gym or my time on the mats by trying this schedule.

Thanks in advance,
SurfRat

2

I think what you got going on is good, but if your not recovering, make it more of a final goal and not to jump right in. Meaning cut down on volume of both BJJ and lifting and slowly build up the volume over the long road. Building up volume can take a long time, just be persistent and timely.

Also, I dont know how much GPP you need when your lifting and rolling all week long… I would try brining in the GPP(if you must) after workouts and VERY slowly.

3

[quote]SurfRat wrote:
I have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for close to 6 months and have been struggling recently trying to find a balance between the gym and rolling. Initially I was concentrating on hypertrophy with Jiu Jitsu as a hobby and substitute for cardio. Recently Jiu Jitsu has become my main focus, although I still love the gym and moving some weight around.

I tried have tried Quattro Dynamo and Jiu Jitsu and found it to be taxing and I was not able to fully recover, which subsequently led to some injuries and 2 months off of both. Since then I have been trying to find a balance between rolling and the gym. For the last week I have been trying a new schedule which goes as follows:

Monday: Jiu- Jitsu (1 hour)

Tuesday: Gym
Back Squat 5x3
Deadlift 6x3 or 5x4
Wide-grip to Neck Bench Press 5x5
Bent-Over Rows 4x6
Weighted Dips 4x8
Cable Crunches 3(center/left/right)x15

Wednesday: Jui-Jitsu (1 Hour)

Thursday: Gym
Front Squat 5x5
Conventional Bench Press 5x5
Snatch Grip Deadlift 5x5
High Pulls 5x6
DB Curls 4x6
Weighted Hanging Leg Raises 3(center/left/right)x10

Friday: Jiu Jitsu (1.5 hours)

Saturday: GPP (a la Zach Even-Esh) 1-1.5 hours
Sprint Work
Sled Work
Sand Bags (cleans, push-presses, carries and throws)
Pull/Chin-Ups

Sunday: REST, Eat, Sleep

I try to go as heavy as possible and stick to low reps mostly due to my lack technique in Jiu Jitsu which requires me to rely heavily on strength. Also I try to stick to compound movements because they have worked well for me in the past and I am not really a fan of isolation work (except curls which I think can help in stopping an armbar if you can get there in time).

I plan on possibly keeping this schedule (if it works) for the next 2 months at which time I would re-evaluate my goals and progress and proceed from there. Obviously, at any signs of over training or lurking injury I would make adjustments to the plan.

I am curious as to what you guys think about this schedule and whether or not I am compromising either my time in the gym or my time on the mats by trying this schedule.

Thanks in advance,
SurfRat
[/quote]

That’s not a bad set-up. If your main focus is jiu-jitsu, lifting 2x a week with a focus on strength is probably your best bet.

You can also do a search for Chad Waterbury’s Hammer Down Series. He has an article on Strength and another on Endurance training and how to work them into a schedule if you are training MMA.

4

[quote]Viking69 wrote:

Also, I dont know how much GPP you need when your lifting and rolling all week long… I would try brining in the GPP(if you must) after workouts and VERY slowly.[/quote]

Thanks a lot for the advice.
The GPP is just mostly to bring up my endurance and overall conditioning (manhandling awkward objects, speed and agility) since I have never really done any of that before, and I find that is lacking in my rolling.

I plan to break into it slowly (as my recovery allows) but hopefully over the next month or so it should be up there.

5

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:

That’s not a bad set-up. If your main focus is jiu-jitsu, lifting 2x a week with a focus on strength is probably your best bet.

You can also do a search for Chad Waterbury’s Hammer Down Series. He has an article on Strength and another on Endurance training and how to work them into a schedule if you are training MMA.[/quote]

Yeah, I have been waiting for his last piece of that series since the endurance portion came out. I just wanted to wait until the whole series came out since it seems to be a little more geared towards MMA rather than just Jiu Jitsu.

Once I get little more advanced I feel that I would be able to include the Hammer Down Series more effectively into my training. Thanks for the help.

6

[quote]SurfRat wrote:
I try to go as heavy as possible and stick to low reps mostly due to my lack technique in Jiu Jitsu which requires me to rely heavily on strength.
SurfRat
[/quote]

I wouldn’t recommend trying to compensate for lacking technique by just using raw power, it will just make it that much harder for you to improve your technique.

7

If you are reasonably strong, technique and endurance should move to the top of your priority list. If you are doing pure Jiu-Jitsu endurance is the most important physical attribute. Strength will disappear once your endurance is used up.

8

Google Steve Maxwell. He’s a BJJ world champ and a great trainer out of Philly.

I been through a couple of his workouts personally. They suck while you’re doing them but will apply to what you want to achieve if BJJ is now you main focus.

And, like said above, stength IS a poor substitute for technique. Strength trainer 2x per week should be plenty. Then roll, roll, roll, and then roll some more. Nothing will sustitute the isometric strength endurance you build while rolling, for rolling.

9

I may have put the wrong idea out there. I am not trying to OVERcompensate for a lack of technique with pure strength. Since I have only been training for a short period of time my technique is lacking when compared to someone who has been training longer. Although, since I have a background in weight training, and what I feel to be a decent strength base, I use that to my advantage.

While I am trying to improve my technique with every class, and every minute I spend thinking about class (replaying mistakes, alternative options, etc…) I still tend to rely on my strength as my strong point. I feel that while I need to work on technique, I should not neglect my strength.
Technique is the first and foremost aspect of my game that I am trying to work on, but strength is certainly not going to be forgotten.

My endurance needs to be increased, and it has been through both rolling and my gpp work that I have being recently. But I know that it can certainly be better and that I need to work harder on it. Thanks for all the great advice.

10

I know your pain.

I’ve been in BJJ for some years now and let me tell you that if you can stick it out the rewards will be immense. Saying that I want to ask you a question.

Blue pill or red pill?

You decide.

One, the one you’re following will lead to injuries and burn out.

The other will take you to a scary place in which your weight training will have to go down substantially in order to allow your BJJ to improve. You see with jiu jitsu it is not about the strength that you posses and yes I know it is important but at the highest levels of BJJ the only things that really matter are technique, endurance, space perception and body reaction (feeling the movement).

Space perception and body reaction are the ones that people tend to take longer to realize and develope. When you are rolling with someone who is purple belt and above and it feels like they are reading your mind, well they are actually reading your body. This instict if developed can negate all strength by working around that force and using it against you. My instructor is 180 pounds and although strong I have seen him take on very strong guys, much heavier than him and made them look like pussy cats.

Although my schedule is now 3-4x Weights and 3-4x BJJ a week I did not start that way and when I tried to do too much I always got hurt. Reduce your weighttraining volume to allow your body to go in more fresh to roll and you will notice your technique improve as well. I don’t know you but I think most people don’t realize how taxing BJJ is and how much it takes for your body to recuperate.

Make a decision as to what you find more important. The way you look (cause everyone lifts weights to look good naked whether we admit it or not) or your ability on the mat. Remember that the most scary or strongest guy does not always win the fight, the fight is won by the best fighter.

11

This is an excerpt the first 4 weeks of a S&C program I wrote for a Purple Belt in BJJ which may give you some ideas regarding your program:

This particular trainee is 27 years old, weighs 171 lbs and has the following maximum lifts in the three powerlifts: Squat: 275 Bench: 275 Dead Lift: 405

STRENGTH & CONDITIONG PROGRAM
PROGRAM: Foundation Strength & Power program (Program 1)

Week 1 of 12 (Mesocycle 1)

TUESDAY

1A. PL Squats: 4x5 165, 175, 185, 195
1B. Bench Press: 4x5 185, 195, 205, 215

2A. T-Bar Rows: 3x8 135, 135, 135
2B. Good Mornings: 3x8 95, 95, 95

3A. Stand, Crunch: 2x15 50, 50, 50
3B. Triceps Dips 2x10 Bodyweight
3C. Rear Delts 2x10 5, 5, 5

THURSDAY

1A. Dead Lifts: 4x4 275, 290, 305, 320
1B. Overhead Press: 4x5 105, 110, 115, 120

2A. Pull-ups: 3x8 Bodyweight
2B. Swiss Ball Hips: 3x6/6/6 Bodyweight

3A. 3-position Wood-Choppers: 2x10 10, 10
3B. Hammer Curls: 2x10 35, 35
3C. Standing Calf: 2x10 90, 90

SATURDAY

1A. Front Squats: 3x7 135, 135, 135
1B. Incline Bench: 3x7 185, 185, 185

2A. Upright Row: 3x8 50, 50, 50
2B. Hyper Ext.: 3x10 Bodyweight

3A. Knee-ups: 2x15 Bodyweight
3B. Cl. Grip Bench: 2x8 155, 155
3C. Rotator Cuff: 2x15 5, 5

Week 2 of 12 (Mesocycle 1)

TUESDAY

1A. PL Squats: 5x5 165, 175, 185, 195, 205
1B. Bench Press: 5x5 185, 195, 205, 215, 220

2A. T-Bar Rows: 3x8 140, 140, 140
2B. Good Mornings: 3x8 100, 100, 100

3A. Stand, Crunch: 2x15 55, 55, 55
3B. Triceps Dips 2x10 Bodyweight + 5 lbs
3C. Rear Delts 2x12 5, 5, 5

THURSDAY

1A. Dead Lifts: 5x4 275, 290 305, 320, 335
1B. Overhead Press: 5x5 105, 110, 115, 120, 125

2A. Pull-ups: 3x8 Bodyweight + 5 lbs.
2B. Swiss Ball Hips: 3x8/8/8 Bodyweight

3A. 3-position Wood-Choppers: 2x10 12.5, 12.5
3B. Hammer Curls: 2x10 35, 35
3C. Standing Calf: 2x10 95, 95

SATURDAY

1A. Front Squats: 4x7 140, 140, 140, 140
1B. Incline Bench: 4x7 190, 190, 190, 190

2A. Upright Row: 3x8 57.5, 57.5, 57.5
2B. Hyper Ext.: 3x10 5, 5, 5

3A. Knee-ups: 2x15 5, 5,
3B. Cl. Grip Bench: 2x8 160, 160,
3C. Rotator Cuff: 2x15 7.5, 7.5

Week 3 of 12 (Mesocycle 1)

TUESDAY

1A. PL Squats: 3x5 195, 205, 215
1B. Bench Press: 3x5 205, 215, 225

2A. T-Bar Rows: 2x8 150 150
2B. Good Mornings: 2x8 110, 110

3A. Stand, Crunch: 2x15 60, 60
3B. Triceps Dips 2x10 Bodyweight + 10 lbs.
3C. Rear Delts 2x14 5 lbs.

THURSDAY

1A. Dead Lifts: 3x4 315 330 345
1B. Overhead Press: 3x5 110, 125, 130

2A. Pull-ups: 2x8 Bodyweight + 10 lbs.
2B. Swiss Ball Hips: 2x10/10/10 Bodyweight

3A. 3-position Wood-Choppers: 2x10 15, 15
3B. Hammer Curls: 2x10 35, 35
3C. Standing Calf: 2x10 105, 105

SATURDAY

1A. Front Squats: 3x7 145, 145, 145
1B. Incline Bench: 3x7 195, 195, 195

2A. Upright Row: 2x8 62.5, 62.5
2B. Hyper Ext.: 2x10 15, 15

3A. Knee-ups: 2x15 10, 10
3B. Cl. Grip Bench: 2x8 165, 165
3C. Rotator Cuff: 2x15 10, 10

Week 4 of 12 (Mesocycle 1)

TUESDAY

1A. PL Squats: nx5 210, 225
1B. Bench Press: nx5 215, 230

2A. T-Bar Rows: 2x8 155, 155

3A. Stand, Crunch: 2x15 65, 65
3B. Triceps Dips 2x10 Bodyweight + 15 lbs.

THURSDAY

1A. Dead Lifts: nx4 335, 355
1B. Overhead Press: nx5 115, 135

2A. Pull-ups: 2x8 Bodyweight + 15 lbs.

3A. 3-position Wood-Choppers: 2x10 20, 20
3B. Hammer Curls: 2x10 40, 40

SATURDAY

1A. Front Squats: 3x7 155, 155, 155
1B. Incline Bench: 3x7 180, 190, 200

2A. Upright Row: 2x8 65, 65

3A. Knee-ups: 2x15 20, 20
3B. Cl. Grip Bench: 2x8 175, 175

NOTES ON PROGRAM DESIGN

This is a four-week phase. The first week should be relatively easy and the total volume of all sets is 20 sets per workout. This week is to acclimate your body to the training by introducing the exercises. Some of the starting weights of the supporting exercises are a guesstimate based on your Squat, Deadlift and Bench. If the starting weights seem ridiculously easy or you are they are taxing during week one, please let me know so that I can adjust your program accordingly. Week two should still be moderate, with the total volume of work will increase to 22 sets (one extra set for each of the 1A and 1B exercises) and either the weights or reps will increase for every almost every movement. Week three will be a hard week weight wise, but the volume will decrease to 16 sets (two less set for the 1A & B movements and one less set for the 2A & B movements). Week four is the all-out week. The goal is to find your rep maximums for the 1A & 1B movements. The volume here should decrease again (we get rid of the 2B and 3C movements reducing the volume by 4 sets). You will notice that the number of sets for the 1A movement is designated as ?n*? because the number of sets is unknown. The goal is to find your rep max for these exercises. You will complete the lifts at the weights identified. If you successfully complete the designated reps, you will then add 5-10 lbs and try again to hit the rep goal. If successful, you will do this one more time. Even if successful at this point, you will stop. So the most number of sets you will perform is 4 sets and the least number is 2. During week four, you should be prepared to psych yourself up for these lifts as much as possible. Also, use spotters.

Anyway… this is an example.

12

Checkmate. This guy is a white belt. The purple belt you wrote that for has been rolling at least 4 years depending on the school he goes to. I don’t think a white belt will be able to handle that type of volume.

Remember that a purple belt is probably good enough to not use much strength when rolling.

Just my 2 cents.

13

BJJER,
That is a very hard decision that I am not sure if I am ready to make completely, yet. As for right now I am going to try to find a balance between the two (I know results will not be optimal for either). Like I said this period will only last the next two months, at which point I am going to choose which one is more important to me. BJJ is in the lead, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

14

[quote]BJJER wrote:
Checkmate. This guy is a white belt. The purple belt you wrote that for has been rolling at least 4 years depending on the school he goes to. I don’t think a white belt will be able to handle that type of volume.

Remember that a purple belt is probably good enough to not use much strength when rolling.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

I understand that and you are correct. You make an excellent point.

I wasn’t suggesting that the person who asked the original question simply copy the program and plug in his numbers. But even if he did do that, it might be better than his program.

His program is higher volume than even this program. Moreover, the person who posted his program stated that he tried to go as heavy as possible when he lifted. That is also an error in my estimation and the above program uses a step-ladder intensity with decreasing volume of the 4 week phase. And during the 4th week of the mesocycle, I suggest backing off on the BJJ training (performing what we call S-training at my academy).

But you are corrent that there is no 1-size fits all program. The above program was posted more to give the person who asked some ideas regarding changes he can make to his program.

15

Checkmate,
Thank you for the sample program. The work load looks a little much for me at the current time. But once I gain a little more experience that looks like an excellent plan that I will try.
I noticed the fluctuating set/intensity aspect and was wondering what you would think of a possible 2 weeks of high intensity (% 1rm) low reps, followed by 2 weeks of lower intensity with higher reps and lower sets? This would allow me 2 full cycles in the next two months.
Just a thought.

16

Surfrat,

I think fluctuating intensity is an excellent idea.

Also, during more intense periods of weight training, it isn’t a bad idea to bring it back a notch in BJJ training. Focus primarily on technique with a willing partner using no strength.

At my academy, we refer to this as “S-training” where you and your partner trade off submitting the other for 3 submission attempts and letting that person escape 3 times. The key is to use no strength when doing s-training. It is cooperative training, but it is not taxing physically and it will teach you techniques and how one technique flows to the next. You will also get to drill escapes.

As the intesity of the weight training goes up, the intensity of the BJJ training should back off, generally.

17

Sorry Checkmate, I posted my reply before your second post. Now I see a little more of what you were getting across. As far as volume of my program, I am using weights and set/reps that I have had success with in the past and am capable of recovering from. Note: These exercies have all been in previous workouts I have done and feel comfortable with.

My idea behind these exercises is that the rate of loading increase (if any) will be much slower than usual to hopefully concentrate on inproved nueral capacity and efficiency, rather than hypertrophy. If I can improve my efficiency at my current strength I think that would be a big help to my game.

I am also about to finish my first week of this plan tomorrow, and my recovery seems to be doing ok. I know one week is not indicative of 2 months, but if I incorporate those back off weeks I think I can keep overtraining away.

18

[quote]Checkmate wrote:
Surfrat,

I think fluctuating intensity is an excellent idea.

Also, during more intense periods of weight training, it isn’t a bad idea to bring it back a notch in BJJ training. Focus primarily on technique with a willing partner using no strength.

At my academy, we refer to this as “S-training” where you and your partner trade off submitting the other for 3 submission attempts and letting that person escape 3 times. The key is to use no strength when doing s-training. It is cooperative training, but it is not taxing physically and it will teach you techniques and how one technique flows to the next. You will also get to drill escapes.

As the intesity of the weight training goes up, the intensity of the BJJ training should back off, generally.[/quote]

Thank you so much for the advice. That is absolutely going to be incorporated in my rolling plan, I think just drilling the techniques will be a huge help to me.

19

[quote]BJBliffert wrote:
Google Steve Maxwell. He’s a BJJ world champ and a great trainer out of Philly.

I been through a couple of his workouts personally. They suck while you’re doing them but will apply to what you want to achieve if BJJ is now you main focus.

And, like said above, stength IS a poor substitute for technique. Strength trainer 2x per week should be plenty. Then roll, roll, roll, and then roll some more. Nothing will sustitute the isometric strength endurance you build while rolling, for rolling.[/quote]

Do Steve Maxwell’s workouts if you’re a masochist. He is an absolute monster. Take it easy at first. You will not come close to finishing his workouts as prescribed unless you are already in top condition. And to echo other points, learn to NOT use your strength when you roll. If you tap, so be it. Once you get the technique, you can add the strength back in. Also, conditioning is huge in grappling.

20

You need to pick one aspect you wanna focus on. Is it BJJ more on lifting now? You can’t do both and do well. You must have an “off-season” where you focus on the lifting more and the pre and on season where BJJ is top priority

[quote]SurfRat wrote:
I have been training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for close to 6 months and have been struggling recently trying to find a balance between the gym and rolling. Initially I was concentrating on hypertrophy with Jiu Jitsu as a hobby and substitute for cardio. Recently Jiu Jitsu has become my main focus, although I still love the gym and moving some weight around.

I tried have tried Quattro Dynamo and Jiu Jitsu and found it to be taxing and I was not able to fully recover, which subsequently led to some injuries and 2 months off of both. Since then I have been trying to find a balance between rolling and the gym. For the last week I have been trying a new schedule which goes as follows:

Monday: Jiu- Jitsu (1 hour)

Tuesday: Gym
Back Squat 5x3
Deadlift 6x3 or 5x4
Wide-grip to Neck Bench Press 5x5
Bent-Over Rows 4x6
Weighted Dips 4x8
Cable Crunches 3(center/left/right)x15

Wednesday: Jui-Jitsu (1 Hour)

Thursday: Gym
Front Squat 5x5
Conventional Bench Press 5x5
Snatch Grip Deadlift 5x5
High Pulls 5x6
DB Curls 4x6
Weighted Hanging Leg Raises 3(center/left/right)x10

Friday: Jiu Jitsu (1.5 hours)

Saturday: GPP (a la Zach Even-Esh) 1-1.5 hours
Sprint Work
Sled Work
Sand Bags (cleans, push-presses, carries and throws)
Pull/Chin-Ups

Sunday: REST, Eat, Sleep

I try to go as heavy as possible and stick to low reps mostly due to my lack technique in Jiu Jitsu which requires me to rely heavily on strength. Also I try to stick to compound movements because they have worked well for me in the past and I am not really a fan of isolation work (except curls which I think can help in stopping an armbar if you can get there in time).

I plan on possibly keeping this schedule (if it works) for the next 2 months at which time I would re-evaluate my goals and progress and proceed from there. Obviously, at any signs of over training or lurking injury I would make adjustments to the plan.

I am curious as to what you guys think about this schedule and whether or not I am compromising either my time in the gym or my time on the mats by trying this schedule.

Thanks in advance,
SurfRat
[/quote]