Not, nor ever will be, a user. Just a personal choice of mine made when taking in my lifestyle, morals, mentality, and financial situation. If someone uses, it doesn’t matter to me as long as they don’t “hurt” anyone in the process.
But I will admit, I would definitely consider taking them if I was a professional bodybuilder or athlete.
[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Most are juicers. Say one thing bad about juicing and you’ll be flamed to death by morons. I personally find those who stay natural much more admirable, because (yes, even with steroids it takes hard work) it takes even more hard work to attain that “perfect physique” than comparative to a juicer.
Juicers still look good.[/quote]
i fail to see how you are qualified to answer for the entire site by telling someone that most of the people here are juicers.
i dont juice. if my lifetime goals did not include employment that would without a doubt test for such things, i can 100% honestly say that i would do it sooner or later. however, because my lifetime goals don’t permit that, i obviously will not be doing it…unless of course i do it when im like 50.
[quote]c-dog wrote:
TrainerinDC,
While I appreciate your stance on the subject and willingness to help out someone new, I must say that I disagree with some of your statements.
I believe it does matter whether or not a lifter is “enhanced”. No, it does NOT make him any more, or less, of a man or lifter, but it definitely affects the way he can/does train and eat.
As a lifetime natural lifter and bodybuilder, I’ve discovered that I have a wealth of knowledge for someone who chooses the same path. On the other hand, I’ve also discovered that I struggle to be of assistance to someone who chooses to utilize enhancement.
Sure, there are universal things to be learned in both arenas, but I believe the training and nutrition differences are pretty dog-gone substantial.
Just my two cents . . for what it’s worth!
C-dog[/quote]
I really don’t see your point. As one that has crossed the line to the darkside - I can tell you from experience that nothing changes wrt diet, training, and rest.
The only difference I have seen is the size of the muscle. You have to train, eat, when you are juicing - just like when you are natural.
I can’t speak for all of those that juice - but the above is completely true in my case.
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
I’d say that not even close to “most” of the guys here are using steroids. It’s just that more people here aren’t as ignorant about them as the rest of the US is.
Just because some guys here defend their use, doesn’t mean they’re on.
I have my own reasons for not using them right now, but that doesn’t mean I never will.[/quote]
I agree with everything you said. I have made a point of reading Cy’s old articles as well as MesoRX because I don’t believe in being selectively and purposefully ignorant. This does not mean however that I am a juicer.
On the other hand, I really enjoyed MAG-10 and have heard that D-Bol blows it the fuck out of the water. So chances are, I’ll probably give it a go once I hit 230 or thereabouts
[quote]rainjack wrote:
c-dog wrote:
TrainerinDC,
While I appreciate your stance on the subject and willingness to help out someone new, I must say that I disagree with some of your statements.
I believe it does matter whether or not a lifter is “enhanced”. No, it does NOT make him any more, or less, of a man or lifter, but it definitely affects the way he can/does train and eat.
As a lifetime natural lifter and bodybuilder, I’ve discovered that I have a wealth of knowledge for someone who chooses the same path. On the other hand, I’ve also discovered that I struggle to be of assistance to someone who chooses to utilize enhancement.
Sure, there are universal things to be learned in both arenas, but I believe the training and nutrition differences are pretty dog-gone substantial.
Just my two cents . . for what it’s worth!
C-dog
I really don’t see your point. As one that has crossed the line to the darkside - I can tell you from experience that nothing changes wrt diet, training, and rest.
The only difference I have seen is the size of the muscle. You have to train, eat, when you are juicing - just like when you are natural.
I can’t speak for all of those that juice - but the above is completely true in my case. [/quote]
I’ve seen that juicers get more aggressive/get angry more easily. Would you agree with that? Do you feel an higher need for exercise in order to discharge the accumulated energy/emotion/whatever?
[quote]Imen de Naars wrote:
I’ve seen that juicers get more aggressive/get angry more easily. Would you agree with that? Do you feel an higher need for exercise in order to discharge the accumulated energy/emotion/whatever?[/quote]
I guess this was inevitable. “Roid Rage” is there or isn’t there? Lemme just say that I really believe much of the hype about this is just that based largely on nonsequiturian reasoning on the honest end to outright lying propaganda on the other.
Someone lost their temper or worse >>> They were using steroids >>> Roid rage.
Does not necessarily follow.
Am I saying that there’s no such thing? I don’t know, but the type of data used to support the notion that there is isn’t too convincing from what I’ve seen.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
n3wb wrote:
not many people on this site have gained enough size and strength to even justify takeing steroids
so I would hope there are alot more natural guys
How in the fuck do you know that? [/quote]
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=539455&pageNo=0
average deadlift I saw was 405-425 roughly and there were a decent bit in the 300’s
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1211136&pageNo=0
about 16-17 inch arms for most people some smaller some bigger
this to me dosent justify takeing steroids because with a proper diet and training you can get this in a year or so without steroids
Im all for the use of steroids they make our sports better in my opinion
but almost every one on here isnt pushed any where near to thier genetic potential to start takeing steroids now is about as smart as a fat person haveing lipo suction to lose weight rather than try a diet
but then again this is just my opinion
n3wb
All natural baby! Went from 125, 10% bf to 195, 15% bf in just over 2 years. I’m getting stronger every day, and feel that I can progress just fine without being juiced. Plus, I like my hair and testicles.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Imen de Naars wrote:
I’ve seen that juicers get more aggressive/get angry more easily. Would you agree with that? Do you feel an higher need for exercise in order to discharge the accumulated energy/emotion/whatever?
I guess this was inevitable. “Roid Rage” is there or isn’t there? Lemme just say that I really believe much of the hype about this is just that based largely on nonsequiturian reasoning on the honest end to outright lying propaganda on the other.
Someone lost their temper or worse >>> They were using steroids >>> Roid rage.
Does not necessarily follow.
Am I saying that there’s no such thing? I don’t know, but the type of data used to support the notion that there is isn’t too convincing from what I’ve seen.[/quote]
I’m not exactly convinced either, but I’ve seen it in two acquaintances - they did seem to be more nervous. Again, yes, it’s not a particularly strong argument; although, of course it is based on a comparison with the previous state, not on a purely logical deduction.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
I always remember what my dad said to me…“do the right thing, even when nobody is looking.”
.
So by implication, steroid use is the ‘wrong thing’ to do…?
Or are you talking about ‘In the eyes of the law’. In which case, I have to assume that you always drive within the speed limit, even on a dry, clear day, on an open stretch of deserted road, in a modern, well-maintaind machine. Even when “nobody is looking”. Yeah, right.
Oh the hypocrisy, lol.
Bushy[/quote]
I am sure there is other laws he is breaking and perhaps doesn’t even know he is breaking them. i.e. oral sex is illegal in Virginia.
[quote]Imen de Naars wrote:
rainjack wrote:
c-dog wrote:
TrainerinDC,
While I appreciate your stance on the subject and willingness to help out someone new, I must say that I disagree with some of your statements.
I believe it does matter whether or not a lifter is “enhanced”. No, it does NOT make him any more, or less, of a man or lifter, but it definitely affects the way he can/does train and eat.
As a lifetime natural lifter and bodybuilder, I’ve discovered that I have a wealth of knowledge for someone who chooses the same path. On the other hand, I’ve also discovered that I struggle to be of assistance to someone who chooses to utilize enhancement.
Sure, there are universal things to be learned in both arenas, but I believe the training and nutrition differences are pretty dog-gone substantial.
Just my two cents . . for what it’s worth!
C-dog
I really don’t see your point. As one that has crossed the line to the darkside - I can tell you from experience that nothing changes wrt diet, training, and rest.
The only difference I have seen is the size of the muscle. You have to train, eat, when you are juicing - just like when you are natural.
I can’t speak for all of those that juice - but the above is completely true in my case.
I’ve seen that juicers get more aggressive/get angry more easily. Would you agree with that? Do you feel an higher need for exercise in order to discharge the accumulated energy/emotion/whatever?[/quote]
I remember an article on here discussing this. It had something to do with the people who showed signs of “roid rage” had past psychological problems already.
The ones without past psychological problems didnt show any increased aggresiveness.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
dhuge67 wrote:
I always remember what my dad said to me…“do the right thing, even when nobody is looking.”
.
So by implication, steroid use is the ‘wrong thing’ to do…?
Or are you talking about ‘In the eyes of the law’. In which case, I have to assume that you always drive within the speed limit, even on a dry, clear day, on an open stretch of deserted road, in a modern, well-maintaind machine. Even when “nobody is looking”. Yeah, right.
Oh the hypocrisy, lol.
Bushy
I am sure there is other laws he is breaking and perhaps doesn’t even know he is breaking them. i.e. oral sex is illegal in Virginia.
[/quote]
“Me writing down in a notebook…”
Never…move…to…Virginia.
[quote]Easy E wrote:
“Me writing down in a notebook…”
Never…move…to…Virginia.[/quote]
Seriously, Virginia has now been named the worst state ever.
[/hijak]
If you count pro-hormones such as masterdrol, then yeah, I have. I %110 plan on it in the future though. I do not plan on pursuing a career that will test for it, i.e. law enforcement.
I spend a lot of time around the stuff, and I spend quite a bit time researching the subject as well. Every single college research paper I have written so far has been over roids in one way or another. (andro, the baseball scandals, good/bad and long/short term side effects) There are some good reads out there, hell my college library had 5 books on it. All good books 2.
Very interesting subject to me for some reason.
[quote]n3wb wrote:
…this to me dosent justify takeing steroids because with a proper diet and training you can get this in a year or so without steroids
Im all for the use of steroids they make our sports better in my opinion
but almost every one on here isnt pushed any where near to thier genetic potential to start takeing steroids now is about as smart as a fat person haveing lipo suction to lose weight rather than try a diet
[/quote]
I will agree with you up to a point. I think everyone needs to try and hit their genetic potential before taking AAS.
However - as in my case - I left my genetic potential back in the mid 80’s - early 90’s. In other words I am too old to hit my genetic potential naturally.
The thing I don’t understand about this discussion is why anyone thinks it is any of their business if a person juices or not.
Assuming that we are discussing intelligent use of AAS in adult males that are not breaking the rules of any sanctioned athletics - why is it an issue to those that don’t juice? Is there this same outrage over those that drink? Smoke weed?
How is my choice to take exogenous testosterone affecting anyone else’s training, or physique goals?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
n3wb wrote:
…this to me dosent justify takeing steroids because with a proper diet and training you can get this in a year or so without steroids
Im all for the use of steroids they make our sports better in my opinion
but almost every one on here isnt pushed any where near to thier genetic potential to start takeing steroids now is about as smart as a fat person haveing lipo suction to lose weight rather than try a diet
I will agree with you up to a point. I think everyone needs to try and hit their genetic potential before taking AAS.
However - as in my case - I left my genetic potential back in the mid 80’s - early 90’s. In other words I am too old to hit my genetic potential naturally.
The thing I don’t understand about this discussion is why anyone thinks it is any of their business if a person juices or not.
Assuming that we are discussing intelligent use of AAS in adult males that are not breaking the rules of any sanctioned athletics - why is it an issue to those that don’t juice? Is there this same outrage over those that drink? Smoke weed?
How is my choice to take exogenous testosterone affecting anyone else’s training, or physique goals?
[/quote]
I agree with all of that except, I will say this… fuck the genetic potential bullshit.
If you are a serious lifter, have done your research, and know what it takes one way or the other, then you are going to KNOW when you are ready for that “boost”
What I mean is that, while deadlifting 650 lbs may not be the top of my “genetic potential” I can gaurantee you that if I have earned the right to pull that from the floor, then I %100 have earned the right to use the sauce.
(I was just using the deadlift as an example, for any strength/physique pinnacle or goal you have reached)
Guess what I am trying to say is that I think if you are going to do it right in the first place, then you will know when you are ready.
[quote]c-dog wrote:
I believe the training and nutrition differences are pretty dog-gone substantial.
Just my two cents . . for what it’s worth!
C-dog[/quote]
Could you elaborate on what those substantial differences are?
[quote]Imen de Naars wrote:
I’ve seen that juicers get more aggressive/angry more easily.
[/quote]
I have another theory on this matter.
The few studies that have been performed on men with high testosterone levels show that these men are “cool under fire”, more even tempered.
Estrogen, on the other hand, is a hormone that makes people seemingly pissed of and grumpy. Have you ever had to deal with a woman that’s being flooded with estrogen during her monthly? Run for cover!
Therefore, I believe estrogen should be illegal and men should take extra testosterone if they aren’t producing a substantial amount on their own (I’m being slightly sarcastic here, estrogen should be legal, but discouraged).
Not that I have anything significant to add to the debates, but to answer your question ive never used steroids and I dont plan on it. Things may change but right now that isnt a road I want to go down.