John Berardi's Meal Combinations

I was reading over an article by John Berardi and he talked about meal combinations that are good and ones that should be avoided. Heres the important part i’m confused about

Let’s start with some meal combinations to avoid.

Avoid meals containing fats and carbs
Unfortunately, this is the typical meal of the Western diet. As a result, it’s no wonder that obesity is an epidemic. Meals with a high carbohydrate content in combination with high-fat meals can actually promote a synergistic insulin release when compared to the two alone. High fat with high-carb meals represent the worst possible case scenario.
Now, some people have argued that fat lowers the glycemic index of foods and should therefore be included in carb meals. But remember, the glycemic index only gives a measure of glucose response to a meal, not insulin response. And sometimes the glucose responses to a meal and the insulin responses to a meal aren’t well correlated. So although you might be slowing the rate of glucose absorption into the blood by adding fat to your meals, you’ll promote high blood levels of fats, carbs, and insulin. And that’s a no-no!

Avoid meals high in carbs alone
Ironically, since the liver converts excess carbohydrates into fats, a very high carbohydrate meal can actually lead to a blood profile that looks like you just ate a high carb and high-fat meal! That’s why high-carb diets don’t work any better than ones rich in fats and carbs. High carb meals easily promote high blood levels of fats, carbs, and insulin, too.
Okay, so now that we know which meal combinations are evil. Let’s be proactive and talk about what meal combinations to concentrate on.

Eat meals containing protein and carbs (with minimal fat)
It’s well known in the research world that eating carbs and protein together also creates a synergistic insulin release (much like the fat and carb meals above). But in this scenario, that insulin release is just what we want. By having a few meals per day that cause high blood levels of insulin, carbs, and amino acids (as long you don’t have chronic high blood levels of insulin all day long), the body tends to become very anabolic, taking up all those carbs and amino acids into the muscle cells for protein and glycogen synthesis. And since there’s no excess fat for the fat cells, fat gain is minimized.
Obviously this combination is beneficial during the post-workout period, but in addition you might want one or two additional insulin spikes per day to promote anabolism during a mass phase. Again, as long as you aren’t elevating insulin all day long, you won’t become insulin resistant.
At this point some may argue that although this scenario might not promote fat gain, those high insulin levels will prevent fat breakdown (lipolysis). And they’re completely correct! But you have to understand that most meals (unless they contain only certain types of protein) will elevate insulin levels to the point that lipolysis is prevented. So you can’t escape that unless you eat a ketogenic diet with only specific types of low insulin releasing proteins. But since ketogenic diets don’t put on muscle mass and there are all sorts of problems associated with them, I think they should be avoided. Since muscle gain is the goal, two or three meals per day of anabolism are necessary to get bigger and that means protein plus carbs with minimal to no fat.

Eat meals containing protein and fat (with minimal carbs)
Although it’s desirable to eat some meals each day that release lots of insulin, upregulate protein synthesis, and fill up carb stores, it’s advisable to avoid too many such meals. I discussed the reasons for this above (reduced insulin sensitivity and prevention of fat burning), but also, since we all know that essential fatty acids are so important to health and favorable body composition, eating protein and carb meals all day will prevent the ingestion of healthy fats. And that’s no good.
In an attempt to balance out your two or three carb plus protein (minimal fat) meals each day, you should be eating an additional two to three meals consisting of protein and fat with minimal carbs. Taking in 30% of each major class of fatty acids (polyunsaturates, monounsaturates, saturates) is a good mass building tip when thinking about which fats to consume.
Taking a step back, the purpose of protein plus fat meals is to provide energy and amino acids without causing large, lipolysis-preventing insulin spikes. In addition, after fatty meals that contain no carbs, the body oxidizes less carbs (more carbs are stored and retained in the muscle as glycogen) and burns more fat for energy. So basically you’ll be burning fat for energy and storing carbs in the muscle after such meals.
I hope that it’s clear now that by properly combining meals, you can use the acute effects of food to your advantage. Eat protein plus fat during some meals and you may be burning fat during certain portions of the day. Eat protein plus carbs for some meals and you may be growing during other portions of the day. Although I know some will think this is blasphemy, this type of eating may actually help you get bigger while reducing your body fat during the same training phase.

This makes a lot of sense to me and it’s something i’ve thought of before. What do you think? keep in mind this is a world class trainer, scientist, consultant, etc…who gets paid thousands for his ability to train people

if u want to read the whole article here you go: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460327

Many here are familiar with his recommendations.

I think it largely depends on goals.

for bulking, I think it limits too much

so u dont think it would be worth it to worry about?

(by the way how do i get it so i get an email notification of reply’s to my posts? i hardly go on this forum mainly cause i cant find the replys to my questions once i post them)

I think the idea is that the healthiest diet is the one that provides all the essentials, and keeps insulin the lowest, and in a nutshell:

small meals, no mixing carbs and fat, no refined sugar, high fiber, low saturated fat, and a variety of lean proteins and vegatables is the way to best accomplish that. You can possibly argue with the premise, but the methods are pretty well researched.

[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
I think the idea is that the healthiest diet is the one that provides all the essentials, and keeps insulin the lowest, and in a nutshell: small meals, no mixing carbs and fat, no refined sugar, high fiber, low saturated fat, and a variety of lean proteins and vegatables is the way to best accomplish that. You can possibly argue with the premise, but the methods are pretty well researched.
[/quote]

well that makes sense but it seems that he’s saying to have hardly any carbs with fat whatsoever

[quote]David1991 wrote:
well that makes sense but it seems that he’s saying to have hardly any carbs with fat whatsoever [/quote]

Well, yes, if refining your physique is the goal, it makes perfect sense. In layman’s terms, insulin is a storage hormone. Raise insulin levels with fatty acids in the bloodstream and they will get stored [as fat].

Do you advocate eating much carbs with fat? We have now arrived at the threshold of understanding where one would need to further assess what type of carbs and fats to decide if this is a good idea or not.

Yes, he is. Mixing carbs and and fat does lower blood glucose concentration, but actually slightly raises insulin, and also seems to raise triglyceride levels, which is a bad thing too, if they’re always evelated.

ok so wouldnt that be significant? In theory the way its laid out it makes sense and it’s something ive thought of before, but how much of an affect will it have?

should i have only protein+fat and protein+carbs meals once i start bulking next week?

I would think that’s the way you’d want to eat regardless, and adjust the calories to your goals.

I don’t know if Berardi ever presented his habits in terms of insulin, but it does occur to me that every one of his points does have the effect of lowering insulin. I looked up diabetes diet, and was expecting to find basically the same exact advise, but the commercial websites with that information are worthless…

[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
I would think that’s the way you’d want to eat regardless, and adjust the calories to your goals.
[/quote]

yea thats what makes sense but im wondering how significant the change would be. it seems like it could make cause a small benefit but im not sure. I wish i could get one of the experts opinions on this because if it is worth doing i’ll change my diet up a little to make it more like this

Does Berardi count? :wink:

[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
Does Berardi count? :wink:
[/quote]

well no doubt he’s an expert, but he doesnt specify how big of a change it’ll make. I mean clearly its something u should lean towards doing but is it so significant where i should never have a tablespoon of olive oil with my pasta? I mean right off the bat not having any carbs with any fats limits a lot of possible meal options

[quote]David1991 wrote:
atypicaluser wrote:
I would think that’s the way you’d want to eat regardless, and adjust the calories to your goals.

yea thats what makes sense but im wondering how significant the change would be. it seems like it could make cause a small benefit but im not sure. I wish i could get one of the experts opinions on this because if it is worth doing i’ll change my diet up a little to make it more like this[/quote]

There are a few coaches/wirters here that do recommend Berardi’s protocal of not mixing fats and carbs. Shugart and Thibs come to mind immediately.

[quote]Trenchant wrote:

There are a few coaches/wirters here that do recommend Berardi’s protocal of not mixing fats and carbs. Shugart and Thibs come to mind immediately.[/quote]

Actually, Thibs said recently (I’ll try to locate the thread/post) that he thinks the whole P+F/P+C thing is overrated, and that (his own words here) even JB is leaning away from this meal combination mentality.

I am curious how ‘bad’ it really is to mix P+C+F if the sources of each macro are from good foods (e.g. lean meats, good low GI carbs, healthy fats). Will that still be less optimal than the strictest P+C/P+F adherence?

It’s seriously a whole new level of mind fuck (at least for me) to have to consider separating my carbs from my fats, especially when they’re already from clean sources.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Actually, Thibs said recently (I’ll try to locate the thread/post) that he thinks the whole P+F/P+C thing is overrated, and that (his own words here) even JB is leaning away from this meal combination mentality.

I am curious how ‘bad’ it really is to mix P+C+F if the sources of each macro are from good foods (e.g. lean meats, good low GI carbs, healthy fats). Will that still be less optimal than the strictest P+C/P+F adherence?

It’s seriously a whole new level of mind fuck (at least for me) to have to consider separating my carbs from my fats, especially when they’re already from clean sources.[/quote]

This is exactly why I wrote this:

FWIW, I no longer subscribe to the P+C and P+F school of thought for people that are beyond the “beginner” classification. It’s an easy and somewhat foolproof way to clarify things for beginners, or those who have trouble nailing down proper food combinations/meal choices.

Beyond that, there are more beneficial ways of doing things, but they require more than a rudimentary understanding of nutrients, hormones, interactions, etc.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Trenchant wrote:

There are a few coaches/wirters here that do recommend Berardi’s protocal of not mixing fats and carbs. Shugart and Thibs come to mind immediately.

Actually, Thibs said recently (I’ll try to locate the thread/post) that he thinks the whole P+F/P+C thing is overrated, and that (his own words here) even JB is leaning away from this meal combination mentality.

I am curious how ‘bad’ it really is to mix P+C+F if the sources of each macro are from good foods (e.g. lean meats, good low GI carbs, healthy fats). Will that still be less optimal than the strictest P+C/P+F adherence?

It’s seriously a whole new level of mind fuck (at least for me) to have to consider separating my carbs from my fats, especially when they’re already from clean sources.[/quote]

lol exactly what i’m saying. an expert i recently talked to was saying it could be to a slight advantage but that it wont be way more effective than normal. and its something u can try once u have ur baseline diet and see how it works for u.
I’m surprised to hear JB is leaning away from it though since he put a significant amount of confidence in it. how old is that article?

[quote]David1991 wrote:
atypicaluser wrote:
Does Berardi count? :wink:

well no doubt he’s an expert, but he doesnt specify how big of a change it’ll make. I mean clearly its something u should lean towards doing but is it so significant where i should never have a tablespoon of olive oil with my pasta? I mean right off the bat not having any carbs with any fats limits a lot of possible meal options[/quote]

Berardi likes to stick to the 25% rule. If the macronutrient you are trying to limit is 25% or under of the meal’s calories, you are fine. So, a small amount of fat with your pasta isn’t going to be an issue.

[quote]Arioch wrote:
David1991 wrote:
atypicaluser wrote:
Does Berardi count? :wink:

well no doubt he’s an expert, but he doesnt specify how big of a change it’ll make. I mean clearly its something u should lean towards doing but is it so significant where i should never have a tablespoon of olive oil with my pasta? I mean right off the bat not having any carbs with any fats limits a lot of possible meal options

Berardi likes to stick to the 25% rule. If the macronutrient you are trying to limit is 25% or under of the meal’s calories, you are fine. So, a small amount of fat with your pasta isn’t going to be an issue.[/quote]

alright i dont think i’ll make too big of a deal out of this issue but it’s a good thing for me to keep in mind when making meals. thanks a lot

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Trenchant wrote:

There are a few coaches/wirters here that do recommend Berardi’s protocal of not mixing fats and carbs. Shugart and Thibs come to mind immediately.

Actually, Thibs said recently (I’ll try to locate the thread/post) that he thinks the whole P+F/P+C thing is overrated, and that (his own words here) even JB is leaning away from this meal combination mentality.

I am curious how ‘bad’ it really is to mix P+C+F if the sources of each macro are from good foods (e.g. lean meats, good low GI carbs, healthy fats). Will that still be less optimal than the strictest P+C/P+F adherence?

It’s seriously a whole new level of mind fuck (at least for me) to have to consider separating my carbs from my fats, especially when they’re already from clean sources.[/quote]

I remember reading somewhere that Berardi now suggests limiting the separation of fats and carbs in meals only at certain times (e.g. breakfast, PWO). The rest of the time you should shoot for balanced meals that fit within your diet.

Will try and find where I read it.