John Berardi Carbs, and Energy Demands - Help.

Nutrition
1

I was on John’s site and for weightlifters he recomeends a diet of 30% protein, 40% carbs, and 20-30% fats.

While I agree with this…I’m so confused about a lot of stuff. Bare with me for a moment please.

I gotta eat a bit over 4000 cals to get my shit together for energy demands between lifting and boxing.

So for me this would be about - over 5 meals lets say (excluding postworkout drink)
1200 cals protein
1600 cals carbs
1200 cals fat

How the hell do I get all my carb requirements?
This means I gotta eat a bit over 5 meals with 75 carbs in each meal?

I thought it was bad to eat carbs all day long etc and at night.

Most carbs should be consumed in the morning, and after workouts.

I workout at night…which emans I have my simple carbs and protein afte rworkout…then one big carb n protein meal.

During the day I gotta eat a shitload of carbs

30% of fats means I gotta eat 25gs of fat per each meal.
Thats 75gs of carbs, and 25gs of fats AT EACH MEAL

I THOUGHT we werenèt supposed to mix fat and carbs together (or at least its better not to)
But here I am completely. Im mixing everything.

Fuckin shit man - You know how confusde I am about this

My question:
Seriously: how does one get all their energy requirements without doing the above

Please help lol.
At the same time Im not worried about fat gain as well over a bulk…I mean some fat gain…I donèt want to become a fat bastard like I have seen some people do over a ;bulk;

Thank you for all replies, Im very interested in responses.

2

This same confusion was expressed by a reader in his Appetite for Construction series that used to be here on T-Mag.

Aim for six meals and 2 to 3 peri-workout shakes (pre-, mid-, and post-workout nutrition).

If you don’t want to mix carbs and fats at each meal, then don’t.

There are fat grams in carbohydrate sources and protein, so make sure you count this into your total fat grams for a meal and for the day. Even oatmeal has 3 grams of fat per serving. The aim with his original food combinations is to have 10 grams or less of fat at each P+C meal and 15 grams or less of carbohydrates at each P+F meal. He suggests that you can eat beans and fruits with P+F meals now, so that can fill some of the carb allotment for the day. Vegetables are allowed at all meals too. Count that into carb allotment for the day too.

People have to really map out their nutrition on paper to see what it all will look like.

3

1600 calories from carbs is only 400g, that happens to be exactly what I take. I’ll usually have 90-100g preworkout, 80g after with my whey, and another 100 in the postworkout meal. That’s 280, and the other 120g are mostly at breakfast and one other meal.

I managed to keep my bodyfat single digits with a 30P/45C/25F split; eating a few hundred over my maintenance.

4

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
1600 calories from carbs is only 400g, that happens to be exactly what I take. I’ll usually have 90-100g preworkout, 80g after with my whey, and another 100 in the postworkout meal. That’s 280, and the other 120g are mostly at breakfast and one other meal.

I managed to keep my bodyfat single digits with a 30P/45C/25F split; eating a few hundred over my maintenance.[/quote]

Right, just like I said.

That’s also the beauty of the food combinations; you can eat a bit over your old maintenance amount with mix meals and still lose or maintain. Joel Marion said he raised his maintenance caloric amount by 600 calories.

5

Also, 4000 cal is a lot of food compared to mere mortals. Twice the amount shown on the RDA packages on food. It’s going to be a lot of carbs, protein, and fat no matter what way you slice it.

So get to eatin’.

6

[quote]rasturai wrote:

I thought it was bad to eat carbs all day long etc and at night.
[/quote]

I’d be cautious about saying carbs at night are ‘bad’, that’s too black and white an answer.

From what I have read, carbs at night can facilitate serotonin/melatonin production which is a good thing.

However, the Insulin released from the increase in blood sugar can hinder the GH release of sleep, which is a bad thing.

So what I do is have carbs in my last meal, but try to minimize as much of an insulin response as possible (Usually by adding lots of fibres and fats, also cinnamon seems to help manage blood sugar)

As for a recipe, try cottage cheese with olive oil and blueberries (tastes better than it sounds) and down the cinnamon by itself, as it makes said recipe taste like shit. Or have an alternate fat source seperately and put the cinnamon in the cheese/berry mix (Cinnamon and Olive Oil can NOT co-exist in the same dish), adding either Glucomannan or Psyllium Husk, maybe a vegetable if I feel like it, to either mix.

Has worked great for me :slight_smile:

7

I think I will go with the 30P,45C, adn 25F just cause of all the energy I use.

I didn’t know you took so many carbs pre-post (shake) and post workout meal (solid) I think I will do that as well and injest 100g’s of carbs in the morning. This means I will have a total of 380 carbs! add in fruit etc during the day and I’m good to go!

Thanks for the help brother!

8

Yeah it’s true about the carbs…I have to eat a lot of carbs at night either way because I box and come home late so…I need that damn food or I’ll feel like hell.
I used to eat almonds and cottage cheese before bed, but I will try that olive oil. and lucky for me I love all types of berries and have tons of it at home :slight_smile: lol.

So…do you eat that right before bed silvehydra? how much cinamon? I can eat that shit plain :slight_smile: lol

9

So in those P+F meals how many carbs can we induce…I know the answer already…but if we are consuming fruit or beans it can over the limit? If so by how much?

10

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
1600 calories from carbs is only 400g, that happens to be exactly what I take. I’ll usually have 90-100g preworkout, 80g after with my whey, and another 100 in the postworkout meal. That’s 280, and the other 120g are mostly at breakfast and one other meal.

I managed to keep my bodyfat single digits with a 30P/45C/25F split; eating a few hundred over my maintenance.[/quote]

Right, just like I said.

That’s also the beauty of the food combinations; you can eat a bit over your old maintenance amount with mix meals and still lose or maintain. Joel Marion said he raised his maintenance caloric amount by 600 calories. [/quote]

But that is more for gaining obviosuly no?

If you are eatnig above maintenance?
I need over 3000 to maintain so if I wanna gain I gotta add almost a thousand I’d say.

11

So pretty much can anyone take a look at this set up

P+C = 100g’s carbs
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+C = 100g carbs
P+C workout
P+C after workout + solid meal
P+F - right before bed cottage cheese and olive oil etc.

During my P+F meals I will eat some fruit/veggies. Might add those beans as well. Serving of fruits + veggies at EACH MEAL.

Fats will be equally distributed between the 3 fatty acids.

So here I am eating pretty damn healthy and a lot of food.
Protein is all good - chicken, salmon, tuna, 93% lean ground beef, steak, protein shakes, eggs.

How does this all look?
This would be following 30protein/45carb/25fats ratio.

Also I added that extra meal as mentioned by bricknyce.

12

[quote]rasturai wrote:
So pretty much can anyone take a look at this set up

P+C = 100g’s carbs
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+C = 100g carbs
P+C workout
P+C after workout + solid meal
P+F - right before bed cottage cheese and olive oil etc.

During my P+F meals I will eat some fruit/veggies. Might add those beans as well. Serving of fruits + veggies at EACH MEAL.

Fats will be equally distributed between the 3 fatty acids.

So here I am eating pretty damn healthy and a lot of food.
Protein is all good - chicken, salmon, tuna, 93% lean ground beef, steak, protein shakes, eggs.

How does this all look?
This would be following 30protein/45carb/25fats ratio.

Also I added that extra meal as mentioned by bricknyce.

[/quote]

Quit worrying about P+C / P+F . IT DOESN’T MATTER.

How much do you weigh and what is your goal? (bulk/cut)

Find your maintenance calories - about 15xBW

Figure about 300-400 calories over if you want to gain (added to daily caloric totals)
…or 12xBW if you want to cut (again, as a starting point)

Get 1g/lb in protein (as high as 1.5g/lb)
Get at least 100g carbs/day
The rest of the calories from fats…

Do NOT concern yourself with P/C/F meal combinations.

Now, if you have your maintenance caloric total, add the extra cals for gaining in the form of your peri-workout drink (protein/carbs). Just use plain whey and some oats.

Quit making this complicated, man :slight_smile:

13

has anyone seen if Berardi has made any comments in regards to the recent pre-training carbs recommendation as opposed to post-training as he has advised for years?

14

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
So pretty much can anyone take a look at this set up

P+C = 100g’s carbs
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+C = 100g carbs
P+C workout
P+C after workout + solid meal
P+F - right before bed cottage cheese and olive oil etc.

During my P+F meals I will eat some fruit/veggies. Might add those beans as well. Serving of fruits + veggies at EACH MEAL.

Fats will be equally distributed between the 3 fatty acids.

So here I am eating pretty damn healthy and a lot of food.
Protein is all good - chicken, salmon, tuna, 93% lean ground beef, steak, protein shakes, eggs.

How does this all look?
This would be following 30protein/45carb/25fats ratio.

Also I added that extra meal as mentioned by bricknyce.

[/quote]

Quit worrying about P+C / P+F . IT DOESN’T MATTER.

How much do you weigh and what is your goal? (bulk/cut)

Find your maintenance calories - about 15xBW

Figure about 300-400 calories over if you want to gain (added to daily caloric totals)
…or 12xBW if you want to cut (again, as a starting point)

Get 1g/lb in protein (as high as 1.5g/lb)
Get at least 100g carbs/day
The rest of the calories from fats…

Do NOT concern yourself with P/C/F meal combinations.

Now, if you have your maintenance caloric total, add the extra cals for gaining in the form of your peri-workout drink (protein/carbs). Just use plain whey and some oats.

Quit making this complicated, man :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’m glad someone said it. I think people make this wayyyy too complicated. As long as your daily macros work out, I don’t think it makes much difference. You probably want more carbs around your workout so you have more energy, but all this P&C and P&F shit is ridiculous. I believe the only point of it was for dieters, as it is much easier to stay within your caloric limits if you only stick to those two combinations.

15

[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
has anyone seen if Berardi has made any comments in regards to the recent pre-training carbs recommendation as opposed to post-training as he has advised for years?[/quote]

That’s another thing that is just ridiculous. A year or two ago it was all about post-workout carbs. They were sooooo important!! Now, the new thing is pre and peri-workout carbs. For me, I just want enough in my system to get me through my workout. If I eat or drink anything within an hour of working out, I leave it on the floor in the gym. I just don’t see how people are eating/drinking that much. They say you will adapt, but honestly I don’t think I would.

16

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]rasturai wrote:
So pretty much can anyone take a look at this set up

P+C = 100g’s carbs
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+F = 20-25g’s fat
P+C = 100g carbs
P+C workout
P+C after workout + solid meal
P+F - right before bed cottage cheese and olive oil etc.

During my P+F meals I will eat some fruit/veggies. Might add those beans as well. Serving of fruits + veggies at EACH MEAL.

Fats will be equally distributed between the 3 fatty acids.

So here I am eating pretty damn healthy and a lot of food.
Protein is all good - chicken, salmon, tuna, 93% lean ground beef, steak, protein shakes, eggs.

How does this all look?
This would be following 30protein/45carb/25fats ratio.

Also I added that extra meal as mentioned by bricknyce.

[/quote]

Quit worrying about P+C / P+F . IT DOESN’T MATTER.

How much do you weigh and what is your goal? (bulk/cut)

Find your maintenance calories - about 15xBW

Figure about 300-400 calories over if you want to gain (added to daily caloric totals)
…or 12xBW if you want to cut (again, as a starting point)

Get 1g/lb in protein (as high as 1.5g/lb)
Get at least 100g carbs/day
The rest of the calories from fats…

Do NOT concern yourself with P/C/F meal combinations.

Now, if you have your maintenance caloric total, add the extra cals for gaining in the form of your peri-workout drink (protein/carbs). Just use plain whey and some oats.

Quit making this complicated, man :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Oh lol. From what I read and understood it was best not to mix all the fats carbs etc together.

Alright alright though. Just another question could I still follow the
30/45/25 (protein, carbs, fats) ratio? :slight_smile:

17

As well is it over a bulk/just grow and get all the energy I need for boxing and lifting. From all the shit I do I might have to go up to 4500 or so cals.

18

Also, quit bugging out about ‘trace’ calories.

Count protein in protein foods, carbs in carb foods and fat in fat foods. Makes life a lot simpler.

19

haha you guys all sound like your settin me straight like my old man

20

Berardi incorrectly based the whole F+C thing on the idea that insulin would store excess carbs as fat. It doesn’t really work that way.

Unless you have a HUGE surpless of calories (surplus = way over maintenance) your body will not store a macro (one that is not fat) as fat. Look up De Novo Lipogenesis.

Now, calorically dense foods are usually C+F (usually, this is junk food) and people tend to overeat these foods because they taste good and are readily available, so by those virtues it is easy to get an excess of calories. So, when you are finally in the “excess” category of calorie consumption, that’s when C+F foods are “dangerous.”

Otherwise, don’t worry about it. Berardi has been wrong about a few things (not bashing his knowledge or his products) but so have been a lot of gurus: Waterbury, Poliquin, even CT. Sometimes they even parrot what another guru says - without verifying the research themselves - and later retract their own words because that original guru was flat wrong (e.g., the whole C+F macro combination thing).

In short: hit your protein goal and worry about your “excess” cals (if you’re bulking) in the form of peri-workout (that’s peri-, not para-, guys) nutrition. Is it that easy? Yes.

PM me your email address and I’ll send you a few good articles.