Jiu Jitsu in Real Life Situations

Training
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But more than that, it’s this idea that one martial art or another will save you in a “self-defense” scenario when that mythical burglar pops out of the woods and asks for you money.

No… most of these will be great for streetfights, but self defense is so much more than a punching technique. If you act wrong or fail to recognize trouble when it’s coming, no amount of fast hands are going to help.

I always thought great examples of this difference were found on the show The Wire.

Exactly which self defense art is going to help you in this spot, when a dude got the drop on you?

Which one helps you here, where you hear is the “Hey now” before the “boom.”

It’s the eyes and ears and guts that turn it into “self defense” instead of just streetfighting. The idea of a “self defense system” that only teaches techniques is ridiculous.

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I agree completely Irish. It is appalling, but as it keeps being said in this thread and others, ‘the street’ has no rules, no ref, no chucking in the towel. The advantage of the ruthless attitude though, is that it should, when put in the context of loss of freedom for life etc, encourage you to do everything humanly possible to avoid fighting. I have found that to be the case.

If you can ask yourself ‘would I risk my life/freedom to prevail now’ you can either answer ‘yes, or I may be dead/eating through a stomach tube anyway in 5 minutes time’ or ‘no, I can grow up and walk away’.

63

Made me think of this.

64

uh ill skip a lot of these comments.

MMA is very different from real fighting. especially after the new rules. In fairness, it is as close as it will get realisiticaly.

I’m a smaller stocky guy who’s done martial arts since i was young, I also wrestled and boxed as well. This was in the early days of UFC. Pre-zuffa. To be honest if UFC fighters got paid what they get paid now back then. Odds are I would’ve actually tried to turn pro.

With that being said, i find most of my friends expect me to turn into bruce lee in a real fight. Often it’s rarely the case. Most fights start and almost always ends in a choke strike to the throat and a head butt to the face and a high crotch slam and me grabbing a friend and running to a place where we are safe.

As for the BBJ that I use, I don’t do RNC, arm bars, etc. i always use their clothes to my advantage, with UFC banning gi’s people forget the majority of chokes are based around the person wearing a shirt. Odd’s are I’ll take their shirt, clock choke them and strangle the life out of them with the collar of their own T-shirt before you’d see any choke or sub you’d see in UFC.

Most of the replies aren’t from people who have spent any serious time in a place that does real BJJ. Anybody who has will know UFC or NO gi is a small part of what BJJ is. Thats why military training has so much JJ based moves.

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[quote]lucidfuel wrote:
uh ill skip a lot of these comments.

MMA is very different from real fighting. especially after the new rules. In fairness, it is as close as it will get realisiticaly.

I’m a smaller stocky guy who’s done martial arts since i was young, I also wrestled and boxed as well. This was in the early days of UFC. Pre-zuffa. To be honest if UFC fighters got paid what they get paid now back then. Odds are I would’ve actually tried to turn pro.

With that being said, i find most of my friends expect me to turn into bruce lee in a real fight. Often it’s rarely the case. Most fights start and almost always ends in a choke strike to the throat and a head butt to the face and a high crotch slam and me grabbing a friend and running to a place where we are safe.

As for the BBJ that I use, I don’t do RNC, arm bars, etc. i always use their clothes to my advantage, with UFC banning gi’s people forget the majority of chokes are based around the person wearing a shirt. Odd’s are I’ll take their shirt, clock choke them and strangle the life out of them with the collar of their own T-shirt before you’d see any choke or sub you’d see in UFC.

Most of the replies aren’t from people who have spent any serious time in a place that does real BJJ. Anybody who has will know UFC or NO gi is a small part of what BJJ is. Thats why military training has so much JJ based moves. [/quote]

I don’t disagree with what you said in the majority of the post, but the end is wrong. The military does it because the battlefield landscape is changing to one where you end up being much more of a policeman than a soldier - i.e., it’s much more about restraining suspected terrorists in Baghdad and returning with them for questioning than it is Iwo Jima-style, all out combat.

Plus, it gives bored soldiers a way to work out and “fight” without killing each other - which combatives will do outright.

I hate that the military has moved away from combatives. I think it’s a big mistake.

Good point about the gi and no-gi transition though, that’s very true.

66

The biggest problem I see is expecting one standard type of fighting to automatically kick ass in a street fight, without realizing several things.
Street fights are a lot less structured than a ring fight, even a UFC one. Bites are illegal in those; I once took a good chomp to the crotch in a brawl. No referee stopped that (I can now say I can throw a punch while crying too).

The situation is different. You always have to worry about another person stepping in.
Weapons are a thing. You’re not in fighting clothes (gi if you do traditional stuff, trunks if not). You may be in a suit and jacket, or a heavy overcoat, or whatever.

The intent is different. I’ve fought people in the ring that were unquestionably better than me, that totally demolished me. I was still never really terrified in the ring because I knew they weren’t really trying to kill me–just win a match (and I might get hurt as a result but probably not too badly). When someone swung a bat at me? Oh shit, that was scary.

67

In the street, the ground is the worst f**king place to be.

Ground skills are invaluable if their used to helo you to get back up ASAFP, but if you’re going to stay there and try and choke a guy out or to tie him in a knot; you’re just leaving yourself open to the chance of multiple attackers and weapons.

68

I feel like a lot of people underestimate BJJ

Im not saying by any means that the BJJ guy will win, but if hes a black belt, id say he definitely holds a pretty good chance.

Obviously shit like the guy pulling a knife, or having like 10 friends run in and jump you are an issue, but you gotta just assume that nothing THAT crazy is gonna happen.

BJJ is all about levering yourself better against a physically superior opponent. Doesnt mean youre gonna win, but its gonna give you a helluva better chance.

Sure alot of the crap they teach you isnt practical (ie holding a gi, rolling on the mats etc) but alot of that shit could go a long way. I mean if youve been doing BJJ for even a decent amount of time, one of the biggest things they teach you is how to break a fall.

That kinda shit can make the difference between breaking your wrists/face and winning a fight.

Obviously alot of the moves are highly technical and are more for structured fights, but if you get a guy on the ground, all it takes is one arm bar or something and the guy is fucked.

Basically the scrawny bastards chances go way up if hes trained in something like BJJ, and if hes not, well then its just a straight up beating

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[quote]dcm1602 wrote:

Obviously shit like the guy pulling a knife, or having like 10 friends run in and jump you are an issue, but you gotta just assume that nothing THAT crazy is gonna happen.
[/quote]

Assuming that nothing “THAT crazy” is going to happen is the quickest way to get fucked up badly.

Every fight I’ve ever seen/been in with the exception of maybe one has gotten “THAT crazy” immediately.

[quote]
BJJ is all about levering yourself better against a physically superior opponent. Doesnt mean youre gonna win, but its gonna give you a helluva better chance.

Sure alot of the crap they teach you isnt practical (ie holding a gi, rolling on the mats etc) but alot of that shit could go a long way. I mean if youve been doing BJJ for even a decent amount of time, one of the biggest things they teach you is how to break a fall.

That kinda shit can make the difference between breaking your wrists/face and winning a fight.

Obviously alot of the moves are highly technical and are more for structured fights, but if you get a guy on the ground, all it takes is one arm bar or something and the guy is fucked.

Basically the scrawny bastards chances go way up if hes trained in something like BJJ, and if hes not, well then its just a straight up beating[/quote]

Break falls don’t work that well on concrete. It’s just not a good streetfightg art.

BJJ guys are kinda dense.

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I’d say BJJ would be good in the sense that it would help you not get caught by a BJJ guy.

When I had my MMA “fight”, there were moments where I didn’t do anything, or move, because the rules didn’t allow me to. No elbowing, no kneeing, no ground stomping, etc.

The guy charged me as soon as the bell rang, and couldn’t get me to fall, was trying to take me down, and I basically unleashed punches on him, but normally, I would have been elbowing him in the back of the neck/head. I’m sure that would have stopped him a lot faster than the 16 oz gloves I was wearing. That, or my kness. During the fight, I had to often stop and think of ‘is this allowed’?

At one point, he managed to get behind me, and jumped on my back, trying to choke me. I was able to stop him from choking me, and he wasn’t able to take me down. He was trying to trip my legs, but it wasn’t working. I ended up standing there for about 10 seconds, in total silence, waiting for him to do something. My head and back were covered by his, and I could have very easily thrown myself backwards as hard as I could, on to the floor. I had a good grip of his forearms and his legs were wound tight around my body. I doubt he would have been able to ‘move out of the way’…but…rules forbid any form of body slam above the waist. Done on concrete? Or even against a wall? I think he would have been hurting.

It was only when he got me on the ground that I was pretty much fucked cause I have 0 BJJ skills. Even the little wrestling I did was 99% focused on take downs and throws.
The fight showed me how MMA is tailored to BJJ. The fight was me basically not doing anything because the only way I knew how to fight (instinctively with knees, elbows, forearms, hands and forehead) was pretty much all forbidden.

edit: I size up everyone I see, in the street. When I walk in to a store, or whatever, I always look at the people and try to imagine what to do, how to use my surrounding, and try to notice what vibe they give off, and so forth. Often times I come to the conclusion that if I get on the floor with one of em, in such confined spaces, I am fucked. Especially if one of their buddies comes in. However, if I keep my distance, and go in hard and fast, I feel I have a better chance.

I’d say BJJ is good to know but doesn’t need to be a strong point. shrug

71

dcm1602,

The single biggest strike against grappling for self defense is that it is more difficult un ass the area while doing it.

Opinions on where BJJ should fall in “self defense” priority range from “its the best” to “it’s the worst”. Plenty of dialed in, been there and done that types extol the virtues of grappling/BJJ/Jujutsu/Judo for real world violence. Other dialed in, also been there and done that types do not. The “Real Life Situation” is ultimately going to dictate what tactics are advisable, or really poor choices. Since these things can be tough to script we wind up at a “You buy your ticket, and you take your ride” kind of place.

Regards,

Robert A

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Break falls don’t work that well on concrete[/quote]

This just ain’t the case. Knowing how to fall absolutely works on concrete, or any flat surface. I will go so far as to say that if you can’t take ukemi on cement, you don’t know how to fall.

Where it gets sporty is when the asshole throwing you knows enough to send you into something other than the flat, poured concrete of a sidewalk, or you happen to land on something hard or sharp. Basically, the same things that can trip up great “in ring” footwork.

Regards,

Robert A

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[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Break falls don’t work that well on concrete[/quote]

This just ain’t the case. Knowing how to fall absolutely works on concrete, or any flat surface. I will go so far as to say that if you can’t take ukemi on cement, you don’t know how to fall.

Where it gets sporty is when the asshole throwing you knows enough to send you into something other than the flat, poured concrete of a sidewalk, or you happen to land on something hard or sharp. Basically, the same things that can trip up great “in ring” footwork.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Interesting you should say that. My understanding and training is that the big slapping style ukemi practised on the mats was developed for the mats and is not particularly suited for hard irregular surfaces where the chance of damaging your hand/elbow is greatly increased.

Our training is to get as low/small as possible before falling (like in a traditional breakfall) but when it comes time to actually hit the ground we keep both our chin and our arms tucked, hands up at your jaw, and spill of what momentum we can rolling up the spine.
It’s pretty much the same really, but we decidedly do not slap the pavement.

A few years ago I fell 14 feet lat on my back onto concrete and did a traditional ukemi, slapping both hands down because that was my training at the time and I was reasonably competent at falling. I can tell you that one of my hands was pretty cut/banged up and the elbow wasn’t too happy either. I’m glad nobody was on me trying to beat my ass at that moment and I don’t think I have been able to access/deploy/retain a weapon very well if that were an issue.

Just my experience.

74

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Break falls don’t work that well on concrete[/quote]

This just ain’t the case. Knowing how to fall absolutely works on concrete, or any flat surface. I will go so far as to say that if you can’t take ukemi on cement, you don’t know how to fall.

Where it gets sporty is when the asshole throwing you knows enough to send you into something other than the flat, poured concrete of a sidewalk, or you happen to land on something hard or sharp. Basically, the same things that can trip up great “in ring” footwork.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Interesting you should say that. My understanding and training is that the big slapping style ukemi practised on the mats was developed for the mats and is not particularly suited for hard irregular surfaces where the chance of damaging your hand/elbow is greatly increased.

Our training is to get as low/small as possible before falling (like in a traditional breakfall) but when it comes time to actually hit the ground we keep both our chin and our arms tucked, hands up at your jaw, and spill of what momentum we can rolling up the spine.
It’s pretty much the same really, but we decidedly do not slap the pavement.

A few years ago I fell 14 feet lat on my back onto concrete and did a traditional ukemi, slapping both hands down because that was my training at the time and I was reasonably competent at falling. I can tell you that one of my hands was pretty cut/banged up and the elbow wasn’t too happy either. I’m glad nobody was on me trying to beat my ass at that moment and I don’t think I have been able to access/deploy/retain a weapon very well if that were an issue.

Just my experience.[/quote]

OK,

I have to run into my office so I can write more later if you want.

If you are falling from a big height, you want to land feet first and try to roll to your side. This lessons dying. Talk to a skydiver for more info.

Under social circumstances:

We have to think of vectors here.

If you are going to be hitting the ground at more of a oblique angle then don’t slap, roll. You can use the momentum to come right back up on your feet.

On the other hand, if you are getting planted pretty much straight into the ground. Slap. Slap hard and forcefully breath out. The posture you adopt should be one that trades fracture for contusion. So, if you are only hurt, as opposed to injured it was a good fall.

Generally this means staying tucked in tight and keeping any of your hard/bony parts from contacting the cement. Feeling like half your body just got slapped by the biggest ruler wielding nun ever is fine. You can still fight. What you want to avoid is broken bones, closed head injury, or getting the wind knocked out of you.

Regards,

Robert A

75

When i was younger i was pretty much conditioned to grapple due to intensive bjj training.

On the streets of course it didn’t go well, i was drunk and got in a argument with some douche, he came to hit me i took the guy down mounted and got kicked in the head by his friends, end of story.

The post story was going to hospital and finding out that i had busted my ear drum, luckily it completed healed.

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Come on guys we all know BJJ works in the streets all day you just have to pull these moves off

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[quote]yoitspmart wrote:
Come on guys we all know BJJ works in the streets all day you just have to pull these moves off

Yeah, because THAT never backfires.

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[quote]yoitspmart wrote:
Come on guys we all know BJJ works in the streets all day you just have to pull these moves off
[/quote]

Word. I got into a 18 on 1 last Saturday and took out 11 guys with an airborne flying armbar combo. Got one more double armbar before they started stomping me out.

Thankfully MMA/K1 legend Mark Hunt was nearby and helped out by beating the piss out of the remaining six.

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Word. I got into a 18 on 1 last Saturday and took out 11 guys with an airborne flying armbar combo. Got one more double armbar before they started stomping me out.

Thankfully MMA/K1 legend Mark Hunt was nearby and helped out by beating the piss out of the remaining six.

Too Funny, but you would have prevailed, got an ankle lock on the one stomping you,ripped it off, and then used it to beat the crap out of the rest…

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I always thought bjj would be good individual self defense, but in a situation where you don’t want to go to the ground, like at a concert or big event where people will kick your head in it’s not so ideal.

I tend to like Judo and boxing for self defense. Boxing you can dominate with quick short punches at risk of being grabbed, but with Judo you should have the advantage if anyone gets their hands on you. You can dominate clinch and standup and with Judo. If you must, you can drop people on their heads and do some real damage.