Jake's First Cycle Log

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

  1. Well his diet combines F + C, which is a no no for staying lean, IMO.

  2. He has waxy maize before training. Why? This is a fast acting carb source.

  3. He consumes too many carbs.

  4. He consumes too little protein. And too little fat as well.

There are other mistakes IMO, but I can’t remember of the top of my head.

No of course, the same shit doesn’t work for everyone. But this doesn’t appear to be working for him, either. Yet he won’t change it.

Bushy[/quote]

  1. Look at my reasoning above, if you care.
  2. No real answer, but I have heard authors (I think on this board) who say that pre workout nutrition is at least as important as post workout nutrition. If not more so.
  3. That would be because I use carb rotation and that was a high carb day you saw.
  4. That would be because that was a high carb day you saw. High carb days I try to minimize fat. Also, since insulin levels are raised high protein is not needed.

The reason I enjoy this thread so much and your previous threads jake are the fact that they are excellent examples f exactly WHAT NOT TO DO!!!

I, Bushy, Cortes, and countless others who have far superior physiques to you (hmm, wonder why) have offered time and time again to help get your ass into decent shape.

You are fat, do something about it. Don’t make that problem worse, you’re just asking for aggravated estrogen related side effects. I don’t doubt that in a week or sooner, you’ll be downing Adex like it is the elixir of life.

I don’t appreciate the complete lack of respect and, at times, utter disrespect you treat me with. In case you don’t remember in androgen crazed mind, I was the one of a very few number of folks on this board willing to help you achieve something. And you did. You have an even greater potential to make even more progress now with proper training and diet, yet you refuse all worthwhile advice from those who could forget more about training, diet, and AAS in a matter of minutes than you will ever learn in your life.

You have made no progress thus far on cycle. Your lifts sucks, your physique sucks, and so does your diet. MAKE A CHANGE AND DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR YOURSELF!!!

Something to point out to you. I weigh more than you and have a far leaner physique. Currently I’m downing roughly 3000-3500 calories a day and still can both maintain and gain strength. That’s in addition to staying relatively the same body weight of 212. Don’t try and tell me that you need all that bullshit in your system to gain. Especially when you’re running 600mg/wk. I’m on my second week of 100 and am still making gains. Oh yeah, I forget that is all in addition to intense cardio-- 3 runs a day, between 11 and 13 miles altogether with swims of .75 to 1.75 km a day. It’s bullshit and you know it, make a damned change or be prepared to waste a lot of time and effort.

Yes, I’m trying to motivate you here to actually do something constructive instead of wasting good test, food, and training time. I’m beyond the point of you disappointing me, because quite frankly I could give a shit less. You have shown time and again that anyone not agreeing with train of thought is apparently inferior in your tiny mind.

Too bad you can’t convert fat cells to brain cells, then you’d be a fucking genius!!!

World

lol, I have to go to work. I’ll be back later.

You’ve got some of the most knowledgeable guys on here giving you advice. They are throwing themselves at you to help you and correct your errors. At least be respectful and acknowledge them for their kindness and effort, even if you are just going to blow them off.

World, Bushy, Cortes, and others: please don’t let this guy discourage you. There are many people who still learn from you guys- myself included. Keep up the good work :).

[quote]tico1028 wrote:
You’ve got some of the most knowledgeable guys on here giving you advice. They are throwing themselves at you to help you and correct your errors. At least be respectful and acknowledge them for their kindness and effort, even if you are just going to blow them off.

World, Bushy, Cortes, and others: please don’t let this guy discourage you. There are many people who still learn from you guys- myself included. Keep up the good work :).[/quote]

What is this, my second post? Haha. I completely agree with the above. It’s great to see there are people on forums who seem to want to help others. And frustrating to see good information being turned away.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

  1. I don’t know what your reasoning is for combining F + C. I learnt this concept (of not mixing the two) from Dr Berardi. It works VERY well. Yet you know better apparently. Bushy[/quote]

  2. I apologize if I snapped at you earlier, but this is REALLY making me angry; and I am generally not an angry person lol. No offense, but someone with as much experience as you claim should know better with this statement. As we both know, there are millions of different kinds of diets. This isn’t to say that all of them work, but sure, there are a handful in that million that work. This is not only my belief, but it is what a lot of the authors on this site believe.

By claiming that the f+c avoidance diet is the “be all end all” way to go is not only ridiculous, but it is also being extremely close minded. Take into consideration the carb rotation diet. There are many people (many of them professional bodybuilders) who follow this. And obviously, it works for a lot of people given there level of success. Low and behold, this diet does have you consume f+c on certain days. The same kinda concept holds true for training.

Granted my diet is low carb days and high carb days – day after day. I have experimented with the number of carbohydrate days I put in a week and have found I actually gain weight with high carb days as often as possible. I would still like to change this to spread out my high carb days. This is somthing I need to play around with, but of course, if I am not gaining any weight in a week, I am going to up the amount of carbohydrate I consume on my high days.

In addition, I know what I need to do to drop fat, and I know it doesn’t take me all that long. This isn’t to say I want to be 10x fatter than I am now, but I am not generally worried if I pack on some fat.
Lastly, I have no idea how high carbohydrates will work in conjunction with my cycle.

[quote]World1187 wrote:
Something to point out to you. I weigh more than you and have a far leaner physique. Currently I’m downing roughly 3000-3500 calories a day and still can both maintain and gain strength. That’s in addition to staying relatively the same body weight of 212. Don’t try and tell me that you need all that bullshit in your system to gain. Especially when you’re running 600mg/wk. I’m on my second week of 100 and am still making gains. Oh yeah, I forget that is all in addition to intense cardio-- 3 runs a day, between 11 and 13 miles altogether with swims of .75 to 1.75 km a day. It’s bullshit and you know it, make a damned change or be prepared to waste a lot of time and effort.
World[/quote]

World if I am not gaining weight on a week to week basis off of steroids, it doesn’t seem to make sense to lower my calorie intake. I should be able to make slow steady weight gain off of steroids (given my present weight) let alone on them when you body needs more fuel. Sure I might not need to gorge myself with every sitting, but it still seems like I would make less then optimum gains if I am eating below maintenance level.

Sorry Jake, but nothing you’ve posted would constitute a low carb day.

You have a high fat day posted, which, if any logic was followed, would be a low carb day, and you’re still eating waxy maize or brown rice at every meal.

Carb cycling can work wonders if you do it right, but as many others have stated, your version is a train wreck.

First of all, you’re too damn fat to be eating carbs the way you do, and secondly, as World stated, you’re asking for trouble with estrogenic sides, buddy.

Keep this up and you’re going to be a bloated, red faced, nipple scratching chubby bastard. Nothing more.

You seem to think everyone is telling you that you have to follow one particular diet to get results, when what we’re telling you is that whatever diet you follow should adhere to proven nutritional principles, be appropriate for your body type AND appropriate for an AAS cycle.

Your diet fails in all three respects.

Period.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Jakebambeeno wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:

  1. I don’t know what your reasoning is for combining F + C. I learnt this concept (of not mixing the two) from Dr Berardi. It works VERY well. Yet you know better apparently. Bushy

  2. I apologize if I snapped at you earlier, but this is REALLY making me angry; and I am generally not an angry person lol. No offense, but someone with as much experience as you claim should know better with this statement. As we both know, there are millions of different kinds of diets. This isn’t to say that all of them work, but sure, there are a handful in that million that work. This is not only my belief, but it is what a lot of the authors on this site believe. By claiming that the f+c avoidance diet is the “be all end all” way to go is not only ridiculous, but it is also being extremely close minded. Take into consideration the carb rotation diet. There are many people (many of them professional bodybuilders) who follow this. And obviously, it works for a lot of people given there level of success. Low and behold, this diet does have you consume f+c on certain days. The same kinda concept holds true for training.
    Granted my diet is low carb days and high carb days – day after day. I have experimented with the number of carbohydrate days I put in a week and have found I actually gain weight with high carb days as often as possible. I would still like to change this to spread out my high carb days. This is somthing I need to play around with, but of course, if I am not gaining any weight in a week, I am going to up the amount of carbohydrate I consume on my high days.
    In addition, I know what I need to do to drop fat, and I know it doesn’t take me all that long. This isn’t to say I want to be 10x fatter than I am now, but I am not generally worried if I pack on some fat.
    Lastly, I have no idea how high carbohydrates will work in conjunction with my cycle.

And you are making me extremely frustrated.

IT’S NOT ABOUT CONSUMING FAT AND CARBS ON THE SAME DAY, BUT IN THE SAME MEAL.

The carbs (whatever form they take) trigger an insulin response, and the fat in the meal therefore becomes largely stored in the adipocytes, rather than becoming an energy substrate, burnt off through ADL (activities of daily living).

This is not a ‘diet’, but a sound physiology lesson. Next you’ll be telling me that “The concept of consuming protein and carbs after training is a ‘diet’ and one that you would rather stay away from because you know how to build muscle” Sheeesh.

You say that you know what to do to get lean. SO WHY AREN’T YOU?

Bushy[/quote]

And here I go again. That diet does have you consume fat and carbs in the same meal on certain days.
Why am I not lean? Maybe because it is not a goall for me right now. Carb cycling is not going to make someone lean if you don’t have it set up right. I know I don’t have it set up to be lean. I have it set up to not be in a calorie deficit.

[quote]arthursaxon wrote:
Sorry Jake, but nothing you’ve posted would constitute a low carb day.

You have a high fat day posted, which, if any logic was followed, would be a low carb day, and you’re still eating waxy maize or brown rice at every meal.

Carb cycling can work wonders if you do it right, but as many others have stated, your version is a train wreck.

First of all, you’re too damn fat to be eating carbs the way you do, and secondly, as World stated, you’re asking for trouble with estrogenic sides, buddy.

Keep this up and you’re going to be a bloated, red faced, nipple scratching chubby bastard. Nothing more.

You seem to think everyone is telling you that you have to follow one particular diet to get results, when what we’re telling you is that whatever diet you follow should adhere to proven nutritional principles, be appropriate for your body type AND appropriate for an AAS cycle.

Your diet fails in all three respects.

Period.

[/quote]
The nutritional principle, ie not mixing f+c, is not a principle that all successful people adhere to. Sure, I not going to argue it is great for fat loss. But, like i have said many times before, this is NOT my main goal. My goal is to build muscle mass optimally, and to be in a calorie deficit, in my mind, is not the way to to go.

In regards to the low carbohydate day, this depends upon what your goals are. If it is to lose fat, yes, you would generally want to have decrease carbs to say under 50 or 100g ie. But, for someone who is trying to build muscle mass optimally, as we know, it is counter productive to be trying to lose fat at the same time (without the use of aas).

As I said before, I DON"T know what carbs in conjunction to cycling may or may not do. That being said, I may cut back on the carb intake.

04/01/08 Training:
None

Notes:
Had 6th injection today. Everything went well. I am 2 weeks and 1 day in and haven’t really noticed anything as of yet. I will get you guys a body weight read tomorrow.

Diet:
High fat day

This is something I found by Justin Harris where he talks about the idea behind carb rotation. I found this to be interesting.

"In the offseason, I have 2-4 high carb days, where the carbs are VERY high, fat is low, and protein is moderate.
The goal is to have elevated insulin levels all day.
Insulin is powerfully anti-catabolic. This allows a MUCH higher percentage of the protein you eat to be available for the synthesis of new protein.

So, even though you may eat LESS protein, there is a higher percentage available for synthesis of new muscle tissue.

Insulin is also effective at lowering SHBG steroid hormone binging globulin. SHBG binds to sex hormones (testosterone), and inhibits their function.
It is not the amount of testosterone in your system, but the amount of FREE testosterone, and insulin increases the potential for free testosterone in the body.

Insulin is also a storage hormone, so the other macronutrients you eat are more likely to be ‘stored.’

We keep fat intake minimal, in an attempt to minimze fat storage.

And, with protein not being used for creation of new glucose, and more free testosterone available in the body, we increase the likelyhood that the protein we eat will be converted to new muscle tissue.

Now, insulin stores nutrients, and activates glycogen synthetase to store more glycogen…but once glycogen stores are loaded up, the insulin will be looking to convert excess blood sugar to triglycerides and store them as fat…which is why we lower carbs on the non high days, to create a mildly glycogen depleted body…to allow the insulin and high carb intake to supersaturate glycogen stores.

On the low days, we increase protein intake, and also raise essential fatty acid intake.

This creates a caloric total that isn’t necessarily much below our basal metabolic rate.

Carb intake is kept lower, but not LOW. There is still enough carbs to facilitate proper training, as well as recovery from training. But, low enough to create some glycogen depletion, to allow us to properly load glycogen on the hgih days.

With high essential and ‘healthy’ fatty acids, we increase the potential for sex hormone production.
Good fats, and higher fat levels promote higher testosterone levels (which we then increase ‘free’ testosterone on the high carb days)

Essential fatty acids also help fill the muscle’s essential fatty acid stores, and create intramuscular fat stores, which can be used for energy later, and also create a more favorable leverage environment for strength.

And of course, the protein is high to make sure we have available protein for synthesis of new muscle tissue. Since carbs are lower, and insulin levels will be lower, we will be more likely to use some of our dietary protein for creation of glucose to be used as energy. So, protein will be higher on this day than on the high carb days."

Friday 04/02/08 Day 16

Bodyweight today (lbs): 185.6

Notes:
still holding. I have been averaging 6-7 meals/day. Still would like to get this up to 8. Been averaging around 700g carbs on my high days (not counting fiber grams). Might need to bump this up a little.

I know I’m late on the party but why the hell do you need MORE CARBS.

With your amount of LBM I’d bet your glyc stores are only around 500-600g which means you are consuming WELL above fullness level several days out of the week. They will be constantly full, thus you will experience no supercompensation benefits and no added strength benefits from consuming more carbs…

Your muscle and liver glycogen will be CONSTANTLY overflowing EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. THAT IS A RECIPE FOR CONSISTENT FAT GAIN.

I’m aware AAS better uses nutrients but you are way overdoing it bro.

This is very basic physiological science in regards to bodybuilding.

I’m not trying to put you down…ignore me, everyone else has told you enough.

You know, I hate to say it to you guys;
Bushy, World, Jake, etc…

But I believe I was right initially when I slammed you Jake and implied this was ridiculous to be getting all the attention of the high caliber guys I just mentioned.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

             Jake, why did you go back to those ways with regard to complete dismissal of all advice given to you??

You’re new plan or old plan, whatever, is fucking stupid.

             I don't know for the life of me, how the fuck this thread has 5 fucking stars on it. No wonder I've been disatisfied with this forum more than usual the last few months... 

     I aint jumping on the bandwagon either, I agreed to try and be positive while I saw you were listening and being receptive to ideas better than your own. Now I'm back to the camp I started from which is to say...

      Jesus Jake, you're fucking out there.

         So disapointed, but I know you could care less even when the numbers are one fucking zillion to your one when it comes to doing the right things for the goals you have..

                    later,
                   Disgusted,

                   ToneBone

Quite honestly, I watch this log to see failure now, because thats all that is gonna come out of this log.

It’s a damned shame I won’t be around to see the nasty end results of this, guess I’ll have to dig through the old threads for it.

I’ll spell it out jake-- you’re a fucking M O R O N. Simple as that.

Don’t ask for help or advice either, because by this point I, and many others, have come to realize you are naught but a significant waste of time and effort.

World

You’re right… I could really care less. Just because I don’t take your diet and training advice you’re going to get upset when I said to begin with I wasn’t going to take any advice about that… Ridiculous. This thread will continue, and you can post whatever shit you want to post; but chances are I won’t even bother to read it unless it seems useful.

04/02/08 Training
ME Bench

Flat bench:
45x2x5
95x2x5
135x2x5
185x2x5
225x3
265x1
275x0 (almost)
225x5 + 1/4
225x4
245x2
235x2

90 degree shoulder rotations w/ elbow on chair:
15x10
20x10

Lockouts (13 down)
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x0
315x5 (12 down amazing how one inch can make such a difference)
365x0 (got it lifted up from the holders but couldn’t get it off the pins)

Preacher curls:
50x10
80x5
105x3
95x10
95x5

Will do some curls and pushups later tonight (I will update)

Notes:
Training went well today. I went up 20 lbs from last time I maxed out on bench, and I think I have more in me than that. I enjoyed getting some real weight in my hand on the rack lockouts. I think 365 is the most I have ever had in my hands benching. Felt good to get two 45 lbs plates on the curl bar. I know this is the strongest I have ever been on preacher curls. Will do a bit more training tonight.