This is What I Have...

Pharma / TRT
1

I know its not the best choice for any cycle, but this is what I have. I am a newbie when it comes to the gear, but I know enough that I can make better choices for a first cycle. The problem is, this is the only stuff I have access to: Test C. or P…Decca, Winstrol, and the appropriate AEs Nova or Clomid.

I am 28. I have been training for several years and have done the research when it comes to the gym. I am around 165 and I would like to gain a little bit of size, stregnth, and get nice and cut up. I am not looking for dramatic gains, at this point. I would also like to keep the side effects low. Any advice?

3

Just another take on the situation here.
If your main goal is fighting I would avoid using too much juice. Your goals are a bit vague but I have a feeling you really don’t want to get hyooge.
In that case I would not exceed 600mg/week TOTAL steroid dose.
I also see no reason to use deca, it has some sides, winny can cause joint problems. If it were me I would use Test Prop with nolvadex. Nice and simple.
20mg nolv while on and 40 for PCT.

Clomid can make some guys bitcy, if it doesn’t do that to you than use it for PCT but use nolvadex while on as I think it’s a better anti-e.

As it’s your first experience with gear I think this will do you good. If after 6-8 weeks you come off and want more, you can always use a more aggresive stack/dose next time.

4

Thanks for the replies thus far. Keep them coming. As for my goals, they are definately not to get hyoooooge. I would like to put on a little bit more size and to tell the truth I would be a little aprehensive about doing over 600 mills. I am pretty sure I am going to go with Nova as my AE, as I can be bitchy enough as it is. The reason I wanted to do decca, is that most guys experience low sides, and great healing effects. I beat the whole living shit out of my body. I could use some help. If you still don’t think its a good idea, let me know. As for just using test and nova…that would great…it would save me money…but for whatever reason doesn’t seem like the smart thing to do. I’m not sure.

5

Well if you were going to use one steroid test covers your bases. Winny is a great physique drug but it seems to cause joint pain. Try it and if it doesn’t then I’d say you can use it. It’s debatable though whether or not it’s still doing any damage joint wise even though you don’t feel anything. Now with deca. The main draw back there is that it can raise prolactin or progesterone levels, not sure which but either way it isn’t great. It is also notoriously hard on the hard on.
As with winny, it can’t hurt to try it but if you just want the joint healing effects you can probably add only 200mg/week of deca and make up the rest with test.
I’ve worked with a number of fighers and most like equpoise and anavar. Test is also a good one. Outside of those drugs you don’t see too much excpet occasionally some pre fight halotestin

7

O.k, I don’t do this as often as I use to but here goes…

many people bash deca and winstrol but when asked their reasons, they simply cannot articulate why. You see for every steroid there will be sides, but there are always ways to counteract them. Winstrol is definitely not just a physique drug. Ask Ben Johnson. Yes it has a dehydrating effect on the joints, but this is offset nicely by using nandrolone. The downside to using nandrolone in the decanoate form is a long recovery period. This can’t be avoided but you can make it easier by using testosterone (cypionate will do just fine) during the tapering period. Nandrolone will remain in your system causing suppression for as long as 45 days. Not only does it take a long time for levels to drop in your system, it also takes a long time for it to ‘kick in’ when starting a cycle. This is why I always say that it isn’t suited for short cycles. The other disadvantage to using nandrolone decanoate is if you are going to be tested. It can be detected in your body for as long as 1-2 years.

so if you are planning on doing a cycle using deca, the way I would do it would be to front load for the first 3 weeks, at 3x your planned weekly dose, then use your weekly dose for the next 3 weeks.

hold off with the cypionate until 3 weeks in, then use it at low levels to keep libido function

wait with the winstrol the first 3 weeks untill the deca is loaded, then begin using it for the next 6-8 weeks

continue using cypionate in the taper which begins from your last injection of deca, untill when it is sufficiently out of your system 45 days later.

This is what I am talking about:

(the dosages are just for the example, they can be more or less)

Week 1
900mg deca

week 2
900mg deca

week3
900mg deca

week4
300mg deca
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week5
300mg deca
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week6
300mg deca
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week7
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week8
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week9
50mg winstrol ed
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week10
50mg winstrol ed (optional)
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week11
50mg winstrol ed (optional)
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week12
200mg cypionate
10mg nolva ed

week13
40-60mg nolva ed

week14
40-60mg nolva ed

week15
40-60mg nolva ed

so to conclude here you front the deca, then wait untill it is sufficiently loaded in your system, then ride it out with your orals, and the test. This will ensure that recovery goes smoothly, - you keep more of your gains, you keep your aggression, and your libido.
There is no need for test use in the first 3 weeks, since suppression dosn’t occur untill around the end of week 3.

you don’t have to use the dosages I laid out, however I think you would have great results with them.

As for getting too ‘hoooyge’, dosages of steroids is just one factor, the other factors is the type of diet you are on, and the type of activity you are doing - i.e. you will not attain a power lifter’s physique while on this cycle since you are in the ring, not in under a bar.

8

Once again, thanks everyone for all their help. Especially Prisoner #22…I could not have gotten a better answer to my question. I am a little nervous about the Winstrol becuase of its effects on bone density and dehydration. Because I box, Thai Box, and do BJJ I put alot of stress on my joints. I broken or sprained joint means off time…which means its a bitch to get back into shape and catch up all over again. Would it be worth it not go with the Wini all together and just do the deca, test, and nova. I can also get ahold of test p. Would this fit into the cyle?

Now for the workouts…I am not going to get to far into the specifics. Let just say I follow a training paradigm pretty similart to Westside for skinny Bastards. I try to keep my intensity high and my volume low to moderate. I throw in a kettlebell workout and some other stuff for GPP. That’s about all I can handle considering I also box 2x a week, Thai Box 1-2 per week, and do BJJ 2x a week depending on how banged up I am and how much money I have. That’s a shitload of cardio though to keep on any LBM. I don’t have too many options open to me. Any fight game is about overtraining, its not about the physical devolopement as it is being mentally tough. I can’t exactly explain to my trainers as most of them are pissed I don’t train enough with them enough (1-2x a week with each of them). I would like to improve my max effort, isometric, and explosive stregnth and change my body comp. It isn’t that bad…but it would be nice if I could meet some more girls so my life outside training could be just little bit happier. Na wha I mean?

9

I just wanted to say that I responded as a fighter who works with a lot of fighters and am relaying what I’ve seen work. A lot of the rules bodybuilders follow do not apply when you have just a performance goal. I know a lot of Body builders and they tend to not mind certain sides or the way steroids make them feel. For example, if they are gaining and but they feel deca makes them tired, they don’t care. If a fighter is tired a lot and thinks it’s because of a steroid, he should get off it and see if he feels better. Also, what I’ve found is that 600mg of test will do what a lot of more complicated cycles will do and it’s just simpler.

As for getting too big I was just relaying that beyond 600mg/week you will probably not get a lot stonger but you will get bigger, not the best thing in mma as it is weight classed. Also, the number one rule is TRY IT away from a competition. I mean, if you wanna try deca for you joints go ahead, try winny, try it all, hell, I’ve tried furazabol, clostebol and all sorts of stuff, but do it, keep a log about it and find out what helps your goals. After all is said and done I’ve gone to var only cycles or var and prop cycles. Other guys like other things. But the way roids make you feel is important in fighting and in bodybuilding, not so much, it’s just am I getting bigger (or harder/leaner/stronger) If you can do these but all the juice makes you tired it’s not so bad. Anyway, tiredness is just an example of things I’ve heard from fighters and others on deca.
But by all means try it.
As for training. You wanna be strong for your bodyweight and FAST. So westside is good. As are oly lifts. I like Martin Rooney and CT’s Stuff for fighters. Also the concept that guys like Pavel and Staley have brought is crucial to apply to all workouts. Know the purpose of the reps you are doing. Is this for speed or strength or conditioning and never sacrifice quality for quantity. Fighters don’t have to be overtraining all the time.
They should be peaking for a performance and then backing off a bit and re-evaluating things

10

good post bro. hopefully he is able to find more things to choose from. Also, Winstrol does not decrease bone mass, it would increase it. The only steroids that does that is corticosteroids.

11

Ok…I respect one fighter trying to help another especially in such a competive game. So will I make good progress inside the ring and out if I take Prisoner#22’s suggestions. I can see if I can get ahold of var…but its a longshot…no to mention its expensive. I intend to experiment…but I want to be in the right direction.

12

There was an aticle/interview on this subject in T-Mag:

Steroids in Mixed Martial Arts
An interview with Trainer X
by Chris Shugart
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;?id=459597

13

MMAFighter…

How tall are you? Unless you’re quite short I don’t think you need AAS at 165lbs. You should be able to reach your goals by training and diet alone.

You wrote your training is OK but what about your diet?

14

[quote]Mr. Moose wrote:
MMAFighter…

How tall are you? Unless you’re quite short I don’t think you need AAS at 165lbs. You should be able to reach your goals by training and diet alone.

You wrote your training is OK but what about your diet?[/quote]

I am about 5’8. My diet is pretty good, as I am pretty disciplined about my training. I spread my meals out, watch my protein intake, eat low glycemic index carbs and whole grains. I have cheated more than I used to, but that is a heck of alot less than most people. As for making it without AAS, that’s something I have considered for easily more 16 years. I am 28, so you do the math. I have never smoked a ciggerette, smoked weed, done any drug whatsoever, it was only recently that I tried alchohol. So you can take a guess at how hard this decision is for me. I have also taken a good look and given the alternatives a try. I refuse to be put in the same category as punk ass kids who don’t do the work or the research. Nuff said here.

Any other advice?

15

Hello everyone. Thanks for all your help in the previous posts several months ago. Unfortunately, I have encountered a new problem. Drug tests. I am a little nervous about having decca in my system for a year. This has caused me to reorganize my plans, and come up with some new questions.

  1. Can I do it with just cyponate and winny, and the HCGs?
  2. Should I subsitute Test P for the Cyp.
  3. What would Anavar do for the cycle.

Remember, my concerns are safety, testing, and not too much wait gain. I would personally like to keep my test dossages below 600 mg. I liked the original idea of front loading with the decca and riding it out with the orals. I would like to do it along those lines minus the decca. Any ideas?

16

[quote]MMAFighter wrote:
Hello everyone. Thanks for all your help in the previous posts several months ago. Unfortunately, I have encountered a new problem. Drug tests. I am a little nervous about having decca in my system for a year. This has caused me to reorganize my plans, and come up with some new questions.

  1. Can I do it with just cyponate and winny, and the HCGs?
  2. Should I subsitute Test P for the Cyp.
  3. What would Anavar do for the cycle.

Remember, my concerns are safety, testing, and not too much wait gain. I would personally like to keep my test dossages below 600 mg. I liked the original idea of front loading with the decca and riding it out with the orals. I would like to do it along those lines minus the decca. Any ideas?[/quote]

400 mgs of test cypionate alone for 10-12 weeks is plenty for a first cycle at 165 you should gain between 15-20 lbs but the water weight will come off after the cycle is over leaving you with a qulity 10-15 lbs of muscle assuming your diet an training are good And with proper pct you should hold almost all of that from a first cycle And test is all that is needed steroid wise for a first cycle .

18

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
BAD BRAD-POLOKO wrote:
MMAFighter wrote:
Hello everyone. Thanks for all your help in the previous posts several months ago. Unfortunately, I have encountered a new problem. Drug tests. I am a little nervous about having decca in my system for a year. This has caused me to reorganize my plans, and come up with some new questions.

  1. Can I do it with just cyponate and winny, and the HCGs?
  2. Should I subsitute Test P for the Cyp.
  3. What would Anavar do for the cycle.

Remember, my concerns are safety, testing, and not too much wait gain. I would personally like to keep my test dossages below 600 mg. I liked the original idea of front loading with the decca and riding it out with the orals. I would like to do it along those lines minus the decca. Any ideas?

400 mgs of test cypionate alone for 10-12 weeks is plenty for a first cycle at 165 you should gain between 15-20 lbs but the water weight will come off after the cycle is over leaving you with a qulity 10-15 lbs of muscle assuming your diet an training are good And with proper pct you should hold almost all of that from a first cycle And test is all that is needed steroid wise for a first cycle .

Alternatively, you could take advice from someone who understands basic punctuation and grammar…

bushboy[/quote]

Well proper grammar And punctuation dose’nt make for a proper or smart cycle And what The TOMATO CAN suggested in his post is way more complicated than needed for a first time user .

19

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
BAD BRAD-POLOKO wrote:
MMAFighter wrote:
Hello everyone. Thanks for all your help in the previous posts several months ago. Unfortunately, I have encountered a new problem. Drug tests. I am a little nervous about having decca in my system for a year. This has caused me to reorganize my plans, and come up with some new questions.

  1. Can I do it with just cyponate and winny, and the HCGs?
  2. Should I subsitute Test P for the Cyp.
  3. What would Anavar do for the cycle.

Remember, my concerns are safety, testing, and not too much wait gain. I would personally like to keep my test dossages below 600 mg. I liked the original idea of front loading with the decca and riding it out with the orals. I would like to do it along those lines minus the decca. Any ideas?

400 mgs of test cypionate alone for 10-12 weeks is plenty for a first cycle at 165 you should gain between 15-20 lbs but the water weight will come off after the cycle is over leaving you with a qulity 10-15 lbs of muscle assuming your diet an training are good And with proper pct you should hold almost all of that from a first cycle And test is all that is needed steroid wise for a first cycle .

Alternatively, you could take advice from someone who understands basic punctuation and grammar…

bitchboy[/quote]

You will notice all of my insults towards you will be spelled wrong just to make you more knowledgeable on gear .

20

Hey P22, that cycle you laid out has really peaked my interest. Could one get by without HCG on that cycle or do you always need some HCG in the mix with Decca? Unfortunatly, I simply don’t have access to it.