[quote]Dustin wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
A coward like yourself displays it and then denies it.
This thread has gone off the deep end. I’m not a neo-nazi but would it make everyone feel better if I said I was?
Dustin
[/quote]
I went back and many of your posts:
I still don’t understand why you would dispaly White Nationalist icons if you are not sympathetic to their cause.
You did post a link to Stormfront.org
[quote]Dustin wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
A coward like yourself displays it and then denies it.
This thread has gone off the deep end. I’m not a neo-nazi but would it make everyone feel better if I said I was?
Dustin
[/quote]
I went back and many of your posts:
I still don’t understand why you would dispaly White Nationalist icons if you are not sympathetic to their cause.
You did post a link to Stormfront.org
I’m just curious to know one thing:
Let’s say that hypothetically, in WWII the arabs came to help out Europe and get rid of the germans. Once they had helped us out, they decided they needed a homeland for the jews, so, they grabbed a ruler draw some lines in the middle of the US and called it Isreal. Isreal is there now and is oppressing and getting rid of the original people on the land.
How would you react being an American?
Please, don’t come back saying “You’re an asshole, blah blah”. If you’re going to reply to this, please reply to this with your honest opinion on how you would react to the situation.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
juninho wrote:
pat36 wrote:
This is what I don’t get. The muslims are terrorists. The are extemists in every way, they hate kill and murder, and that is just the begining of the evil the perpetuate, yet all they have to do is portray themselves as victims and dumbasses believe them. Why? What good have they done. Other then to attempt to reduce the earth’s population what have they done that is good for anybody. They do nothing but evil, therefore they are evil. If they do good then I will call them good, but I won’t hold my breath. I hope Isreal wins and wins good. Peace should only be made at the surrender table.
Once again, another beyond-retarded post equating Islam with terrorism. The two things are NOT synonymous you know??? Also, where are you getting your information from? Have you not seen that atrocities have been committed by both sides? Have you not seen the number of innocent civilians slaughtered by Israel?? Can you not possibly see that some Muslims from the Lebanon/Gaza Strip/Palestine area may feel just a little bit put out that the West randomly created Jewish nation in their back yard?? Can you not see that they may feel just a teensy weensy bit helpless against the percieved oppression of American-sponsored Israel? Can you not also see that this notion is given credence by Bush and Blairs failure to call for a cease fire? And can you not see how all of these factors combined may lead you to act in an extreme manner to get your point accross?
Did you read what he wrote?
He did not say all muslims are terrorists yet there are too many muslim terrorists.
The loudest muslim clerics are calling for terror and jihad. It is happening all over the world not just Israel.
Radical Islam is at fault in Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir Indonesia etc. This terrorism has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with radical Islam.[/quote]
Did I read his post?? Err, yes I did. The second sentence states “The muslims are terrorists”. Did you miss that bit?
[quote]algian wrote:
I’m just curious to know one thing:
Let’s say that hypothetically, in WWII the arabs came to help out Europe and get rid of the germans. Once they had helped us out, they decided they needed a homeland for the jews, so, they grabbed a ruler draw some lines in the middle of the US and called it Isreal. Isreal is there now and is oppressing and getting rid of the original people on the land.
How would you react being an American?
Please, don’t come back saying “You’re an asshole, blah blah”. If you’re going to reply to this, please reply to this with your honest opinion on how you would react to the situation.[/quote]
I think that your hypothetical question is unanswerable because you cannot ignore the historic context out of which this imbroglio has developed.
Whilst I often get irritated with dannyrat his postings at least place the problem in a meaningful historic context (despite his interpretations often being flawed and his reading sometimes questionable).
I can’t resist pointing out that your question has the Arabs “helping out” the US (don’t forget the role played by the UK and Commonwealth Countries)in liberating Europe. In reality the Arabs sided with the Nazis. The Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini was a great admirer of Hitler’s and helped to mobilize Arab support against the Allies.
Many Muslims volunteered to fight for the Nazis against the Allies. There was even an SS division called Handzar, which means Scimitar, the curved sword of the Ottoman Empire.
According to Himmler: “Muslims responded to the call of Muslim leaders and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for, above all – Our Fuehrer.”
[quote]coolexec wrote:
algian wrote:
I’m just curious to know one thing:
Let’s say that hypothetically, in WWII the arabs came to help out Europe and get rid of the germans. Once they had helped us out, they decided they needed a homeland for the jews, so, they grabbed a ruler draw some lines in the middle of the US and called it Isreal. Isreal is there now and is oppressing and getting rid of the original people on the land.
How would you react being an American?
Please, don’t come back saying “You’re an asshole, blah blah”. If you’re going to reply to this, please reply to this with your honest opinion on how you would react to the situation.
I think that your hypothetical question is unanswerable because you cannot ignore the historic context out of which this imbroglio has developed.
Whilst I often get irritated with dannyrat his postings at least place the problem in a meaningful historic context (despite his interpretations often being flawed and his reading sometimes questionable).
I can’t resist pointing out that your question has the Arabs “helping out” the US (don’t forget the role played by the UK and Commonwealth Countries)in liberating Europe. In reality the Arabs sided with the Nazis. The Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini was a great admirer of Hitler’s and helped to mobilize Arab support against the Allies.
Many Muslims volunteered to fight for the Nazis against the Allies. There was even an SS division called Handzar, which means Scimitar, the curved sword of the Ottoman Empire.
According to Himmler: “Muslims responded to the call of Muslim leaders and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for, above all – Our Fuehrer.”
[/quote]
I mentioned Americans because this site is predominantly visited by Americans. If this site were predominantly visited by the English then I would have phrased my question accordingly.
Which part of the historic context can we not ignore to answer this question?
Galloway wipes the floor with Sky News anchor:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
doogie wrote:
Zeb doesn’t care that Dustin is a Nazi, as long as he’s a straight Nazi.
LOL…Nooooooo I don’t like Nazis. They tend to be even more hatefilled than harris…
…although not by much.[/quote]
Then why are you defending one, you little schmuck?
[quote]Dustin wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Okay, first your question: you asked “Why is it that Jews have been so put upon?” (I’m paraphrasing.)
Your a schmuck who can’t read. I repeated the statement that you said and asked the question, “why have Jews been thrown out of every nation they’ve lived in?” You made the statement, I asked why.
You still haven’t answered.
I said nothing about the Holocaust or anything else. Your putting words in my mouth. Quit making things up
It saddens me that you are allowed to represent this country.
It saddens me that you can’t read and are dodging questions you obviously know nothing about.
With the big mouth you have, why don’t you join?
Dustin[/quote]
Wow. You don’t know what paraphrasing is…that’s sad.
The question was “Why have the ews been kicked out of every country they’ve ever lived in?” That’s what you asked.
To answer that quesiton, one would have to apply blame to the jews for the Holocaust, the Pogroms, the Inquisition, etc.
You are essentially pointing at a rape victim and saying, “Well, look what she was wearing!”
I would expect no more from a disingenuous coward racist.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Then why are you defending one, you little schmuck?
[/quote]
A very short post but you still can’t avoid a personal attack. And you are also confused…hey…now I’m stating the obvious.
(shaking head)
I don’t think a rape victim should be raped, and fuck you for that analogy.
Jews have a very potent analogy, that was allowed to grow and survive Babylon, to this day. To my knowledge (i don’t know the world’s jewry) a jew is quite shrewd in business, supporting his or her family at the cost of others. Hey, good for them. I do too.
A rich jew in a country can be influential. There were also many poor jews in eastern europe, who firmly held an ideology that was not in accord with their host country. That can’t entirely explain the pale etc, there was state-evil in that, but the alienation of the diaspora can be largely attributed to strong, incompatible faith i believe.
My own great grandfather was English. He wanted to marry a pretty English atheist girl (that’s why i’m so fiiine)
so his family decalred him ‘dead’ and severed all contact. Love of ideology, above the family. That’s ruthless.
I’m not bitter, i just know that this is not a friendly way to behave, or smoothly integrate.
All i know is that in my country, the Carribbeans who now get drunk with us, and get pussy with us, and play football with us, can eat bacon with us, etc seem a lot more like ‘us’ and get incorporated a lot easier.
(No jew hatred, so fuck off in advance) Do we expect a whole world to change for one minority group? That includes Christians. Muslims. Pornstars. Crack Addicts. Jews. Karaoke singers. Hip Hoppers. Weight lifters.
What i’m saying is that a minority must acquiesce a little, or eventually face extinction
[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
jasonigor wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
You should be dishonorably discharged and gang raped by both the '72 Knicks and the SUNY-New Paltz chapter of Hillel House.
As Freud would say: “You’re projecting your repressed fantasies”
Please don’t play amateur psychologist with your Freud quotes. Ask any Psychologist worth their salt…Freud was largely full of shit.
And you are???..[/quote]
Worth my salt yes.
[quote]jasonigor wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
jasonigor wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
You should be dishonorably discharged and gang raped by both the '72 Knicks and the SUNY-New Paltz chapter of Hillel House.
As Freud would say: “You’re projecting your repressed fantasies”
Please don’t play amateur psychologist with your Freud quotes. Ask any Psychologist worth their salt…Freud was largely full of shit.
And you are???..
Worth my salt yes.[/quote]
ok, whatever.
[quote]dannyrat wrote:
I don’t think a rape victim should be raped, and fuck you for that analogy.
Jews have a very potent analogy, that was allowed to grow and survive Babylon, to this day. To my knowledge (i don’t know the world’s jewry) a jew is quite shrewd in business, supporting his or her family at the cost of others. Hey, good for them. I do too.
A rich jew in a country can be influential. There were also many poor jews in eastern europe, who firmly held an ideology that was not in accord with their host country. That can’t entirely explain the pale etc, there was state-evil in that, but the alienation of the diaspora can be largely attributed to strong, incompatible faith i believe.
My own great grandfather was English. He wanted to marry a pretty English atheist girl (that’s why i’m so fiiine)
so his family decalred him ‘dead’ and severed all contact. Love of ideology, above the family. That’s ruthless.
I’m not bitter, i just know that this is not a friendly way to behave, or smoothly integrate.
All i know is that in my country, the Carribbeans who now get drunk with us, and get pussy with us, and play football with us, can eat bacon with us, etc seem a lot more like ‘us’ and get incorporated a lot easier.
(No jew hatred, so fuck off in advance) Do we expect a whole world to change for one minority group? That includes Christians. Muslims. Pornstars. Crack Addicts. Jews. Karaoke singers. Hip Hoppers. Weight lifters.
What i’m saying is that a minority must acquiesce a little, or eventually face extinction [/quote]
Oh dannyrat, you are wrong again. If a minority does “acquiesce a little” extinction is guaranteed. In “Anti-Semite and Jew”, Jean Paul Sartre (a non-Jewish Frenchman writing shortly after WW2), explores the questions of what it means to be a Jew, and conversely, an anti-Semite. He elucidates the nature of “The Jew” as not simply a religious entity, nor a racial one, nor a cultural one but something more complex. Similarly, the anti-Semite is not simply a man of prejudice as is the simple racist, but rather a man who adopts a certain philosophical paradigm or teleology.
Sartre discusses an incredibly symbiotic relationship between the anti-Semite and the Jew, and concludes that the Jew could not exist without the anti-Semite. For Sartre, in a very broad and perhaps reductionist sense, the Jew exists because the anti-semite created him.
Similarly many other minority groups.
[quote]juninho wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
juninho wrote:
pat36 wrote:
This is what I don’t get. The muslims are terrorists. The are extemists in every way, they hate kill and murder, and that is just the begining of the evil the perpetuate, yet all they have to do is portray themselves as victims and dumbasses believe them. Why? What good have they done. Other then to attempt to reduce the earth’s population what have they done that is good for anybody. They do nothing but evil, therefore they are evil. If they do good then I will call them good, but I won’t hold my breath. I hope Isreal wins and wins good. Peace should only be made at the surrender table.
Once again, another beyond-retarded post equating Islam with terrorism. The two things are NOT synonymous you know??? Also, where are you getting your information from? Have you not seen that atrocities have been committed by both sides? Have you not seen the number of innocent civilians slaughtered by Israel?? Can you not possibly see that some Muslims from the Lebanon/Gaza Strip/Palestine area may feel just a little bit put out that the West randomly created Jewish nation in their back yard?? Can you not see that they may feel just a teensy weensy bit helpless against the percieved oppression of American-sponsored Israel? Can you not also see that this notion is given credence by Bush and Blairs failure to call for a cease fire? And can you not see how all of these factors combined may lead you to act in an extreme manner to get your point accross?
Did you read what he wrote?
He did not say all muslims are terrorists yet there are too many muslim terrorists.
The loudest muslim clerics are calling for terror and jihad. It is happening all over the world not just Israel.
Radical Islam is at fault in Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir Indonesia etc. This terrorism has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with radical Islam.
Did I read his post?? Err, yes I did. The second sentence states “The muslims are terrorists”. Did you miss that bit?[/quote]
Oops, I meant to say muslims are racist and terrorists. It is a religion on hate filled violence. If they don’t do it they condone it. Which means most of them are culpable to the violence and hate in some way.
Again the evidence isn’t by what they say, but by what they do. Actions speak louder then words and thier actions are crystal clear. I do not know what thier defenders, including our beloved western news media, is missing about that fact.
Selling oil is not a good action. If I had my choice they would be shoving the oil up thier ass. The mafia sells porn, does that make them good? Walmart sells lots of shit, they must be really, really good.
Whoa… you are quoting sartre as an authority on jewishness? You never heard about Camus (in the resistance, a cool guy) finding Sartre in the cinema during ww2?
However, i agree in part with this [quote] Sartre discusses an incredibly symbiotic relationship between the anti-Semite and the Jew, and concludes that the Jew could not exist without the anti-Semite. For Sartre, in a very broad and perhaps reductionist sense, the Jew exists because the anti-semite created him.[/quote]
Since you posted with humility and tolerance, i ask a question- [quote]
If a minority does “acquiesce a little” extinction is guaranteed. [/quote]
Do you consider paradigm shifts to be extinction? Or culturally accepting pluralism? I mean if it’s going to work out there, Israel will have to cease to be a ‘jewish state’, sorry, but when they ‘expropriated’ land, there were arabs on that land. In around 50 years, there may even be more arabs in Israel than Jews. Crazy!
Obviously it’s complex, as you noted. But it is frustrating for me to see such massive sympathy for past jewish suffering in our consciousness so much that, we can’t ever say the Israeli state made a mistake. Or fired a high-yield missile in anger. Or developed nuclear weapons even before the arabs attacked in the 40s. Or are trying to destroy all opinion that is against them (basically this would require the destruction of all of arabia).
I admit i fail to see how the anti-semite (a misnomer, people stop using this word!!! Arabs are semites too) is different to other racists. Just as repellant, and probably just as entrenched in historical biases becoming engrained in a cultural consciousness
[quote]harris447 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
doogie wrote:
Zeb doesn’t care that Dustin is a Nazi, as long as he’s a straight Nazi.
LOL…Nooooooo I don’t like Nazis. They tend to be even more hatefilled than harris…
…although not by much.
Then why are you defending one, you little schmuck?
[/quote]
Because his blind hatred of you overwhelms his alleged dislike of Nazis, or any other topic for that matter. But he is not hate-filled, no sir, not at all. LOL!
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Because his blind hatred of you overwhelms his alleged dislike of Nazis, or any other topic for that matter. But he is not hate-filled, no sir, not at all. LOL![/quote]
Hey you just drew a false conclusion by making a wrongful assumption based upon insufficient data.
Did you do that on purpose?
Of course you did.
And why?
One lefty sticking up for another lefty.
Awe…that’s so adorable.
LOL
[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Whoa… you are quoting sartre as an authority on jewishness? You never heard about Camus (in the resistance, a cool guy) finding Sartre in the cinema during ww2?
However, i agree in part with this Sartre discusses an incredibly symbiotic relationship between the anti-Semite and the Jew, and concludes that the Jew could not exist without the anti-Semite. For Sartre, in a very broad and perhaps reductionist sense, the Jew exists because the anti-semite created him.
Since you posted with humility and tolerance, i ask a question-
If a minority does “acquiesce a little” extinction is guaranteed.
Do you consider paradigm shifts to be extinction? Or culturally accepting pluralism? I mean if it’s going to work out there, Israel will have to cease to be a ‘jewish state’, sorry, but when they ‘expropriated’ land, there were arabs on that land. In around 50 years, there may even be more arabs in Israel than Jews. Crazy!
Obviously it’s complex, as you noted. But it is frustrating for me to see such massive sympathy for past jewish suffering in our consciousness so much that, we can’t ever say the Israeli state made a mistake. Or fired a high-yield missile in anger. Or developed nuclear weapons even before the arabs attacked in the 40s. Or are trying to destroy all opinion that is against them (basically this would require the destruction of all of arabia).
I admit i fail to see how the anti-semite (a misnomer, people stop using this word!!! Arabs are semites too) is different to other racists. Just as repellant, and probably just as entrenched in historical biases becoming engrained in a cultural consciousness
[/quote]
Anti-Semitism is hostility toward or prejudice against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group, which can range from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution. The highly explicit ideology of Nazism was the most extreme example of this phenomenon, leading to a genocide of the European Jewry. Anti-Semitism takes different forms:
Before the 19th century, most anti-Semitism was primarily religious in nature, based on Christian or Islamic interactions with and interpretations of Judaism. Since Judaism was generally the largest minority religion in Christian Europe, Jews were often the primary targets of religiously-motivated violence and persecution from Christian and, to a lesser degree, Islamic rulers.
Unlike anti-Semitism in general, this form of prejudice is directed at the religion itself, and so generally does not affect those of Jewish ancestry who have converted to another religion, although the case of Conversos in Spain was a notable exception. Laws banning Jewish religious practices may be rooted in religious anti-Semitism, as were the expulsions of Jews that happened throughout the Middle Ages.
Racial anti-Semitism had its origins in the early and popularly misunderstood evolutionary ideas of race that started during the Enlightenment, racial anti-Semitism became the dominant form of anti-Semitism from the late 19th century through today. Racial anti-Semitism replaced the hatred of Judaism as a religion with the idea that the Jews themselves were a racially distinct group, regardless of their religious practice, and that they were inferior or worthy of animosity. (On a personal level I find pseudo-scientific theories of race both troublesome and pointless).
With the rise of racial anti-Semitism, conspiracy theories about Jewish plots in which Jews were somehow acting in concert to dominate the world became a popular form of anti-Semitic expression.
Many analysts and Jewish groups believe there is a distinctly new form of late 20th century anti-Semitism, called the New anti-Semitism, which is associated with the Left, rather than the Right, borrowing language and concepts from anti-Zionism. Some of these analysts identify anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, arguing that anti-Zionism “advocates denial of the right to self-determination of the Jewish people.”
[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Whoa… you are quoting sartre as an authority on jewishness? You never heard about Camus (in the resistance, a cool guy) finding Sartre in the cinema during ww2?
dannyrat, dannyrat, dannyrat must you indulge in such tedious and stupid rhetoric?
However, i agree in part with this Sartre discusses an incredibly symbiotic relationship between the anti-Semite and the Jew, and concludes that the Jew could not exist without the anti-Semite. For Sartre, in a very broad and perhaps reductionist sense, the Jew exists because the anti-semite created him.
Since you posted with humility and tolerance, i ask a question-
If a minority does “acquiesce a little” extinction is guaranteed.
Do you consider paradigm shifts to be extinction? Or culturally accepting pluralism? I mean if it’s going to work out there, Israel will have to cease to be a ‘jewish state’, sorry, but when they ‘expropriated’ land, there were arabs on that land. In around 50 years, there may even be more arabs in Israel than Jews. Crazy!
Obviously it’s complex, as you noted. But it is frustrating for me to see such massive sympathy for past jewish suffering in our consciousness so much that, we can’t ever say the Israeli state made a mistake. Or fired a high-yield missile in anger. Or developed nuclear weapons even before the arabs attacked in the 40s. Or are trying to destroy all opinion that is against them (basically this would require the destruction of all of arabia).
I admit i fail to see how the anti-semite (a misnomer, people stop using this word!!! Arabs are semites too) is different to other racists. Just as repellant, and probably just as entrenched in historical biases becoming engrained in a cultural consciousness
[/quote]
You make an interesting point dannyrat (as much as it pains me to say so). Your question demands further analysis. You ask: “do you consider paradigm shifts to be extinction? Or culturally accepting pluralism? I mean if it’s going to work out there, Israel will have to cease to be a ‘jewish state’, sorry, but when they ‘expropriated’ land, there were arabs on that land. In around 50 years, there may even be more arabs in Israel than Jews. Crazy!”
As I said (well Sartre actually said), in a very broad and perhaps reductionist sense, the Jew exists because the anti-semite created him. Consequently, over time, quintessentially Jewish attributes will be subsumed into the general character of societies, and at this point, the Jew will cease to exist. In some sense, when we are all Jews, there will be no “Jews”. Certainly, something like this has been going on for some time.
For example, whereas in the Middle Ages, the Jews were simultaneously hated and depended upon for money-lending and financial transactions because these activities were considered sinful by most Christians, now “Jewish” money-lending and economics has become completely integrated into Western society and has ceased to be essentially a “Jewish” phenomenon. Call this a ?paradigm shift? if you will.
In the example I gave, the anti-Semite created the conditions under which the Jew became the money-lender. The anti-Semitism of the society at large set the course of Jewish development. Sartre makes similar arguments vis-a-vis the Jewish fascination with the “universal”.
The more the Jew explicates the universal nature of subjects such as science, morality, economics and virtually everything else, the more the Jew is able to make himself transparent to the forces of anti-Semitism, and the more the anti-Semite’s rug is pulled from under his feet. Thus arises the modern cosmopolitan Jew who samples ideas and cultures like cheeses at a market.
But the anti-Semite depends on particularism for his anti-Semitism, that is, the particularism of being a “real” Frenchman, a “real” German, a “real” aristocrat, a “real” peasant, a “real” artisan etc., so that he can always say “no matter what the Jew does, he will never know what it feels like to appreciate wine like a true Frenchman, who is rooted in his fatherland, and the fatherland of his ancestors.”
Again we see a familiar cycle. The anti-Semite creates hostile conditions for the Jew, who must then find strategies to extricate himself from the tangled web created for him, and whose strategies then develop into branches of knowledge and gradually become fully integrated into gentile society.
Thus the Jewish Question is turned on its head. Whereas one used to ask “Can the Jew become a citizen?”, now one asks “Can citizens remain Jewish?” What is the future of the Jew? Will he vanish when the anti-Semite runs out of attacks on his legitimacy?
If I dare now turn to Israel. Surely the same argument applies? If it were not for Arab hostility and aggression, Israel?s ?Jewishness? would dissipate over time and it would cease to exist, or at least, cease to have any significance, save perhaps historical.