Middle East Crisis

What the hell is going on over there??? I think both sides should wake up and smell the coffee otherwise it will just get worse and worse… Why doesn’t Isreal just give the Palestinian their land thats all they want… Palestinians should be alowed to govern themselves and have their own army? I think Palestinians are more supressed then the Isrealies so why doesn’t Isreal just leave them alone and let them be???

NOT TO SAY that I agree what the terroist are doing in Isreal bombing innoccent people… But they do have a point…

Their point is stay out of our land and will stay out of yours… Remember Isreal has an army Palestians doesn’t…

So who’s right and who’s wrong… And I think we as the USA should stay OUT OF IT!!! Otherwise we my see another Sept 11 happening again…

Any this has been bothering anyonelse with input on this subject…

They will never get along and live in harmony. They have been fighting there since the birth of the Jewish Nation. When you say to stay out of it, yes, I agree we shouldn’t send troops over there. We do need to help the peace process though. When Bush took office he pretty much stayed out of the middle east to begin with. The fighting then got much worse, ie what is happening now. So really he has no choice.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion…from your post, it sounds as though you’ve made an opinion without knowing all of the facts about the situation. Please remember that there is a reason that certain people are in charge of our country and that they are doing what they think is best for everyone. I would recommend reading TIME magazine or watching CNN a few times a week to learn more about the Middle East conflicts.

The palestenians have been ofered land numerous times in the past and they have refused every time. Why? because they want the COMPLETE destruction of Israel. Giving them land will probably just make them greedy and they’ll want more/=.

I definately agree the USA should stay out of the Middle east. It isn’t our problem. The natives don’t want peace badly enough yet. If we let them kill each other for another forty or fifty years maybe then they’ll look around, realize they’ve raised two more generations only to fight and have pretty much depopulated the region. Maybe then they’ll want peace. I hope we don’t ever send troops to Israel. That would probably be another Vietnam.

I am not sure if you are aware of the extent of the Middle East crisis which the conflict dates back for thousands of years. It isn’t just about land. Israel, under its’ current government, is the only democratic and free country, surrounded by a group of countries over run by dictatorship. If the Palestinians gain control of Israel, a number of things will happen, and yes, one of them will affect the United States. Most likely, Arafat will be the leader of this new “Palestine”, and it will not be a free country. Number two, all Jews in the country will be exiled: Palestinians hate Jews as much as or more than Hitler, they won’t even recognize that there was a holocaust. Number three, there will be more than likely a chance that Palestine will strengthen its alliance with our enemies: Iran, Iraq, Syria… and then if you are afraid of another September 11th, you are given a larger reason to worry: these countries united will have more of an increased chance of gaining knowledge on how to obtain/make weapons of mass destruction, In which case the United States is screwed. It is critical that Israel remain a free democratic society, and because of the deep rooted hatred between the two groups, it is unlikely and unfortunate that a “live-in-peace-side by side” situation is ever going to happen, especially in light of recent events.

The only reason that Isreal is in control of the Palesitians is because all the surrounding Arab countries attacked Isreal at the same time and got their asses kicked and some of their land taken. The only reason Palestians want to be out of Isreal’s control is because their land is a strategic position for attacking Isreal. As soon as Isreal let them go there would be an immediate attack by the Arab nations. Isreal should go in, kick some ass and let their god sort them out. I feel no pity for the dying Palestinians because their leaders and terrorist groups brought this on themselves.

In my opinion, no American or UN or Russian or whoever-lead peace talks is going to solve anything in Israel. Yes, the creation of the state of Israel is a certainly a major factor in this conflict, but what seems to be over looked is the fact that these people have hated each other for thousands of years. Jewish state or no, they’re going to want to kill each other. The funny thing is, in my mind, that the Palestinians were the third group to control Jerusalem; not first, not second, but third! And all of a suddent then have the God-given right to occupy this land? But the fact that everything irrational just seems to be consistant with this conflict. The solution, in my mind, is to do like they did in Cyprus (I think it was Cyprus), and put up a big fucking wall, and but big UN guns on the wall, and say to each side, you stay on this side, and you guys stay on this side. You don’t hear much about Cyrpus in the news nowadays, do you?

A somewhat related side note; remember the Millenium bomber, who wanted to blow up LAX? Well, part of his “master plan” was to blow up the corner to St. Viateur and Parc Avenue in Montreal, which is in the middle of a Hassidic Jewish community. He obviously didn’t do his homework, because Orthodox Jews are one of, if not the only group of Jews that rejects the state of Israel. Peace.

Maybe you are unaware of the history of Israel but in 1947 Israel was formed by the UN and on the next day every arab nation declared war on it. that’s Syria, Egypt, Jordan Lebanon, and Palestine(yes there was a Palestine state for about a year). However, the arabs lost, and they made their beds and had to lie in it. The land of Palestine was gone and ended up in Israeli control and the refugees fleed to mostly Jordan and Syria. Then in 1967, the arab nations again ready for war and blockaded one of the Israeli ports in the south near Egypt. This as you know was an act of war. A few days latter was the Israeli version of Pearl Harbor. They destroyed about 400 Egyptian planes ON THE GROUND in a surprise attack. However, the Egyptians are fools and told Jordan that they destroyed 400 Israeli planes and so Jordan crossed the border and attacked Israel in the west bank area. The planes turned around refuled and bombed the hell out of Jordan. The war lasted 6 days and Israel doubles its size and received the Golan height from Syria , Sinai dessert from Egypt and Jerusalem, (the holy grail to jews) from Jordan as well as the whole west bank to the Jordan river. The arab nations and Israel faught again in 72 I think it was in the yom kipur war. This was a surprise attack and Israeli wasn’t prepared to fight. However they managed to hold off the rush of the arab states which led to cease fires with Syria, Lebanon and eventually peace with Jordan and Egypt (for land returned.) Why am I giving you all this history is because the whole reason there is no peace is because of MISTRUST. Israel doesn’t want to give back the Golan heights to Syria b/c it’s a huge security asset as the Mtns there can see all the way to the south of Israel. I think Israel would be fine giving back the gaza strip and places like hebron and jerico and jenin. However the conflict really is about Jerusalem and trust. I believe Benjamin Netanyahu offered Arafat 50% of Jerusalem and he turned it down?? That’s kind of greedy considering Arafat doesn’t have a country at all

The percentage of Jewish population in Palestine in 600 AD-1800: 0%

After massive immigration and buying up Arab lands…1948: 7%

Hmmm…give 7% of the people half of the land. That is a recipe for disaster. Many Americans are descendant of those who came here only about 100 years ago, yet they believe that America is their homeland. Aren’t the Palestinians correct in believing the same after being in Palestine for 1400 years? Check out http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html written by Jews for Justice.

if we want to go back to 600ad why dont we go back to say the yr 0 or before that when the romans were throwing the jews out of their land. better yet i want to see the US give back ALL the land it took from the native americans b/c they were clrearly there in the year 600 ad. looking back to who had control of land in xyz year is not going to solve a problem and deciding what year to go back to is completly arbitrary. in fact there were years when christains had control of the land of israel maybe they should control it now too??

And of course we know that since it is an internet site it only gives truthful information (sarcasm). That site is probably nothing but personal opinion and is on the net to serve that groups personal interests. It has apparently worked in your case.

For those of you who are interested, this letter was sent to President Bush from a group of conservatives in the U.S. on April 3:

The Honorable George W. Bush President of the United States Washington, DC

Dear Mr. President:

We write to thank you for your courageous leadership in the war on terrorism and to offer our full support as you continue to protect the security and well-being of Americans and all freedom-loving peoples around the world.

In particular, we want to commend you for your strong stance in support of the Israeli government as it engages in the present campaign to fight terrorism. As a liberal democracy under repeated attack by murderers who target civilians, Israel now needs and deserves steadfast support. This support, moreover, is essential to Israel's continued survival as a free and democratic nation, for only the United States has the power and influence to provide meaningful assistance to our besieged ally. And with the memory of the terrorist attack of September 11 still seared in our minds and hearts, we Americans ought to be especially eager to show our solidarity in word and deed with a fellow victim of terrorist violence.

No one should doubt that the United States and Israel share a common enemy. We are both targets of what you have correctly called an "Axis of Evil." Israel is targeted in part because it is our friend, and in part because it is an island of liberal, democratic principles — American principles — in a sea of tyranny, intolerance, and hatred. As Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has pointed out, Iran, Iraq, and Syria are all engaged in "inspiring and financing a culture of political murder and suicide bombing" against Israel, just as they have aided campaigns of terrorism against the United States over the past two decades. You have declared war on international terrorism, Mr. President. Israel is fighting the same war.

This central truth has important implications for any Middle East peace process. For one spoke of the terrorist network consists of Yasser Arafat and the leadership of the Palestinian Authority. Although your critics in the United States, Europe and the Arab world suggest that you and your administration bear some responsibility for the lack of political progress between Israel and the Palestinians, they are mistaken. As Secretary of State Powell recently stated, the present crisis stems not from "the absence of a political way forward" but from "terrorism..., terrorism in its rawest form." That terrorism has been aided, abetted, harbored, and in many instances directed by Mr. Arafat and his top lieutenants. Mr. Arafat has demonstrated time and again that he cannot be part of the peaceful solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He demonstrated it in July 2000, when he rejected the most generous Israeli peace offer in history; he demonstrated it in September 2000, when he launched the new intifada against Israel; and he demonstrated it again these past two weeks when, despite the hand you offered him, through Vice President Cheney, he gave sanction to some of the worst terrorist violence against Israeli citizens.

It is true that the United States has a leading role to play in the Middle East and, potentially, in resolving the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. But it is critical that negotiations not be the product of terrorism or conducted under the threat of terrorist attack. This would send a most dangerous signal to our adversaries that civilized states do not have the necessary courage to fight terrorism in all its forms.

Mr. President, it can no longer be the policy of the United States to urge, much less to pressure, Israel to continue negotiating with Arafat, any more than we would be willing to be pressured to negotiate with Osama Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. Nor should the United States provide financial support to a Palestinian Authority that acts as a cog in the machine of Middle East terrorism, any more than we would approve of others providing assistance to Al Qaeda.

Instead, the United States should lend its full support to Israel as it seeks to root out the terrorist network that daily threatens the lives of Israeli citizens. Like our own efforts in Afghanistan and elsewhere, Israel's task will not be easy. It will not be accomplished quickly, or painlessly. But with fortitude, on our part as well on the part of the Israeli people, it can succeed in significantly reducing the risk of future terrorist attacks against Israel and against us. And, in so doing, we will give the Palestinian people a chance they have so far not had under Arafat's rule — an opportunity to construct a political culture and government that do not marry their national and religious aspirations with suicide bombers.

Furthermore, Mr. President, we urge you to accelerate plans for removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. As you have said, every day that Saddam Hussein remains in power brings closer the day when terrorists will have not just airplanes with which to attack us, but chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, as well. It is now common knowledge that Saddam, along with Iran, is a funder and supporter of terrorism against Israel. Iraq has harbored terrorists such as Abu Nidal in the past, and it maintains links to the Al Qaeda network. If we do not move against Saddam Hussein and his regime, the damage our Israeli friends and we have suffered until now may someday appear but a prelude to much greater horrors. Moreover, we believe that the surest path to peace in the Middle East lies not through the appeasement of Saddam and other local tyrants, but through a renewed commitment on our part, as you suggested in your State of the Union address, to the birth of freedom and democratic government in the Islamic world.

Mr. President, in that address, you put forth a most compelling vision of a world at peace, free from the threat of terrorism, where freedom flourishes. The strength of that vision lies in its moral clarity and consistency. In the war on terrorism, we cannot condemn some terrorists while claiming that other terrorists are potential partners for peace. We cannot help some allies under siege, while urging others to compromise their fundamental security. As you eloquently stated: "Our enemies send other people's children on missions of suicide and murder. They embrace tyranny and death as a cause and a creed. We stand for a different choice, made long ago, on the day of our founding. We affirm it again today."

Israel's fight against terrorism is our fight. Israel's victory is an important part of our victory. For reasons both moral and strategic, we need to stand with Israel in its fight against terrorism.

Sincerely,

William Kristol

Ken Adelman, Gary Bauer, Jeffrey Bell, William J. Bennett, Ellen Bork, Eliot Cohen, Midge Decter, Thomas Donnelly, Nicholas Eberstadt, Hillel Fradkin, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Charles Hill, Bruce P. Jackson, Donald Kagan, Robert Kagan, Rich Lowry, Clifford May, Joshua Muravchik, Martin Peretz, Richard Perle, Daniel Pipes, Norman Podhoretz, Stephen P. Rosen, Randy Scheunemann, Gary Schmitt, William Schneider, Jr., Marshall Wittmann, R. James Woolsey

Xracergs: yes it is arbitrary to go back to 600 a.d. But is it not just as arbitrary for Jews to claim the land by taking the year back further? The truth is, Jews are only one of MANY different ethnic groups who have lived in the region at one time or another. History shows that Jerusalem was a thriving settlement even before being conquered by Jews. By your arguement, I could take over your house in a home invasion, and the nanosecond that you lost possession of it, my claim to your house is just as legitimate as yours. After all, once something happens, it’s ancient history, right?

As for Molsonman, you did not even bother reading the link and want to jump to conclusions. You obviously have your mind made up and no amount of evidence would move you because your mind is closed to new information.

my whole point was that figuring out who lived there 2000 years ago(or any other date) isnt going to solve the problems. if your argument is correct and there were no jews there in the yr 600d ad… So what there are 5 million there now and unless you are proposing that they should all move to the us or someother country then it really doesnt mater how many were there in the past. Israel was given to the jews after the holocaust so that they could have a homeland, the arabs didnt like this so they attacked. i belieave the statment of “to the victors goes the spoils” is in order in this situation. if the arabs wanted jersualem then they shouldnt have attacked israel and lost. when you fight a war you should be prepared to lose-enough said

Internet sites are just not reliable sources of information. That is why we can’t use them when doing research for university papers. They are not peer reviewed and can have any type of info that the owner of the site wants to put on it. That means a lot of false information ends up on websites. Especially the type that claim things about one group of people over another.

Hey ass, “the Israeli’s should just give them back their land”? what are you on crack? It was never Palestinian land. In fact, if you read history, there was never a “Palestinian” people until 1967. In fact in 1947 both the Arabs and the Israeli’s were offered lands for two states by the UN. Israeli said “ok”, Arabs said no and with Britain’s help started the 1948 War of Independence. Israel won. In 1956, President Nasser from Egypt agrressed against Israel and eventually with the aid of Syria, Jordon and Iraq started the 1956 war, which Israel won (in 10 days at that it defeated over 250,000 troops). In 1967 President Nasser of Egypt put together another coalition with the other Arab surrounding states and started the 6 day war. Israel won and took some land (the Sinai and East Jerusalem). In 1973 Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc attacked Israel (an unprepared Israel) on Yom Kippur, the most holy day in the Jewish religion. Israel got pissed and kicked the shit out of it’s Arab attackers. In 1972-3 Egypt realized that their tactics were not working so they along with other Arab states funded the PLO. they put a young buck named Yasser Arafat at the helm of the geurilla warfare para-military group. First mission 1972 Munich Olympics - kill the Israeli athletes (12). In 1978 Anwar Sadat saw that peace is smarter and better econmically thus the successful “Camp David” accords were signed with Israel. This peace has held until today. Also, after the 1973 Arab defeat all of the surrounding Arab countries again decided not to absorb those Palestinians who decided not to join Israeli society (Israeli Arabs), thus they were left in exile. Since 1948 the UN has ran camps for these people. Israel has supplied electrivity, food, jobs etc for them. Arafat has supplied nothing (not an econmic plan, an educational system or much else). The PLO Charter still calls for the destruction of Israel. In 1993 Arafat signed the Oslo peace accords with Yitzach Rabin of Israel. Arafat has connections to Hamaz, Hizzbolah (a Syrian and Iraqi funded paramilitary group in Lebanon who bomb Israel’s northern borders daily), Al-Queda and other terrorist groups. Most recently the ship Karine-A was caught in the Israeli harbor with a shipment of arms earmarked for Arafat (his #1 assistant ordered them), in addition, Arafat has agreed with Sadam Hussein to let Hussein fund the families of suicide bombers (each family gets $25K plus other monies and college for other children). Israel has said, we gave land back to Egypt after the 1978 Camp David (Sinai Penisula) without problem BUT we give the West Bank and other towns and yet the suicide bombers continue and the Fatah (Arafat’s military wing) killed the Israeli Head of Tourism/Ministry). So Israel has said enough is enough. I ask you my friend, has the US ever given land back to Mexico (where do you think Southern California came from?) Or after each major war, has the U.S. ever closed the imposed military bases in coutries who aggressed against us? Look, the US was attacked on Sept 11th and we are still retailiating (haven’t/can’t? catch Bin Laden) in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Has anyone asked the US to stop? No, in fact we are preparing for our next war (Hussein Part II). Learn history before you make such a stupid remark.

What they should do is move all the women, children, old people, and any one else who wants to leave out of the area. Then tell the remaing people to fight it out till someone gives and everything is solved. If it means they kill every one of them selves then so be it. Just get it over with

Can’t we all just get along?

I say we get our own oil from the good old US. Then we can tell Isreal to have fun kicking the Palistinians ass. Fuck them, nobody is innocent here, but the palistinians are far more fucking guilty than anybody else of autrocities. I say we start at the Gaza strip use low level nukes and plows and clean up until we get to the Chinees border.