Is The Rotary Torso Worth It?

After reading through the rest of this thread I’ve chosen to ignore ATP in this forum, as I don’t waste my time arguing with idiots, but I will provide a few comments for everyone else.

First, the proper terms are midsection, lower trunk or abdominals, not core. Please read Ken Hutchins’ article A Plea for Elevated Discourse on my web site.

Second, the abdominal and lower back muscles are very important, and I’ve never said otherwise. I have pointed out it is not necessary to directly train the abdominal muscles to have ripped abs, however this does not mean I don’t believe there is value in working them.

My workouts include deadlifts, stiff-legged deadlifts, weighed crunches, and weighted lateral trunk flexion (using a 45° station), and have for a while. I will post my current routine below as an example, but don’t have time to answer questions about it.

Trunk flexion and extension under load is not harmful provided you avoid rapidly accelerating into the extremes, or imposing a significant load on the spine in a fully flexed position. This should be obvious to anyone who understands how injuries occur and is not a complete idiot. We have trained hundreds of people over the past few decades on a variety of Nautilus, MedX, SuperSlow Systems, and RenEx machines through a relatively full range of motion in trunk flexion, extension, and rotation with absolutely no problems, no injuries caused, and have in fact provided many people suffering from lower back pain with significant relief by doing so.

I have been alternating between two weekly full-body workouts for a long time, with a focus on a few basic compound pushing, pulling, and lower body exercises rounded out with simple exercises for the muscle groups not effectively targeted by those. This has worked very well for me, but I recently decided to divide these up into two upper and two lower body workouts since I find I require a bit more recovery between workouts for individual body parts when I reduce my calorie intake. I currently weigh about 215 (see the attached picture) but am nowhere near as lean as I ought to be and am leaning down to around 180-185 over the next few months.

I am training twice weekly, rotating through the following four workouts every two weeks. I perform one set to failure of each exercise, using a 10/10 cadence and a repetition range of 2 to 4, for a total TUL of around 40-80 seconds. When I think I’ve achieved failure I keep contracting for another 4-5 seconds then lower the weight as slowly as possible. No rest pause, no drop sets, no forced reps, no negative-only, or any other set-extension techniques. They’re not necessary if you inroad deeply enough to begin with.

I rest only long enough between exercises to record the reps performed on my chart and to load or unload plates or change equipment settings. Timed static contraction (TSC) exercises are performed for sixty seconds, with three twenty second phases (moderate effort, near maximum, maximum).

I am using free weights instead of machines because that’s what we have at our home gym (which has been upgraded further since the photo was taken).

Workout A: Lower Body & Spine

  1. Safety Bar Squat
  2. Trap Bar Stiff-Legged Deadlift
  3. TSC Hip ADduction
  4. TSC Hip ABduction
  5. Dumbbell Crunch
  6. TSC Neck Flexion
  7. TSC Neck Extension

Workout B: Upper Body

  1. Chin-Up
  2. Multi-Grip Bar Bench Press
  3. Barbell Bent-Over Row
  4. Barbell Shoulder Press
  5. Dumbbell Wrist Extension
  6. Dumbbell Wrist Flexion
  7. TSC Pinch Grip

Workout C: Lower Body & Spine

  1. Trap Bar Deadlift
  2. Dumbbell Sisy Squat
  3. Belt Heel Raise
  4. TSC Dorsiflexion
  5. Dumbbell 45° Trunk Lateral Flexion
  6. Dumbbell 45° Trunk Lateral Flexion (opposite direction)
  7. Dumbbell Shrug

Workout D: Upper Body

  1. Pull-Up
  2. Parallel Bar Dip
  3. Barbell Underhand-Grip Low Row
  4. Dumbbell Incline Press
  5. TSC Pronation
  6. TSC Supination
  7. TSC Crush Grip

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Good post. Thanks for you input.

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Cool living room!

So the Timed Static Contractions are like 3 progressively “harder” “sets”?

Do you increase resistance? Weights or bands?

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I’ve upgraded the gym a bit in the past few months.

TSC is performed nonstop, no rest between the phases. I cover this in detail in my book on Timed Static Contraction Training and Ken Hutchins covers it in Critical Factors for Practice and Conditioning.


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Dude, that’s a sweet setup! Looking solid, too.

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Thanks. We’ve also got a Rogue Fitness cable pulldown and row machine on the way and plan to add a standalone belt squat machine in the fall. In a few years we plan to move a little further from Orlando and get a larger place where we can double the size of the gym and add a few machines.

If you want to see something really impressive, ask Dr. Darden to share some photos of Jim Flanagan’s home gym. It’s better equipped than 99% of commercial gyms.

Did you hurt your back doing deadlifts?
Scott

It was either deadlifts, squats, bent over rows or digging ditches, :laughing:

Don’t do any of them anymore

Sounds like some good things to avoid.
Scott

Really!

Other than biased reports coming from intellectual dishonest HiT aficionados, where is the evidence?
Furthermore, empirical evidence the world over shows resistance training is not sufficient for cardiovascular conditioning.

Unlike you, ELL has never been disrespectful toward cardiovascular conditioning. That being said, Dr. Darden views on cardiovascular conditioning have been discarded from my exercise views, as many others have done likewise!

Yeah…i did this in my earl 30s…tried doing them again about 5 years ago, started very light and I could feel the tension…so I stopped and will never do again

Clear sign you are inadequate as regards any correct cardiovascular conditioning information.

Put your head in the sand, and wake up some day unfit!

Name calling!

The # 1 intellectually dishonest tactic

From John T. Reed:

  1. Name calling : debater tries to diminish the argument of his opponent by calling the opponent a name that is subjective and unattractive Intellectually-dishonest debate tactics are typically employed by dishonest politicians, journalists, lawyers of guilty parties, dishonest salespeople, cads, cults, and others who are attempting to perpetrate a fraud.

Confusing cardiovascular and metabolic efficiency with specific skill practice, which improves economy of movement and reduces rate of fatigue, contributing to improved endurance performance.

But Scott,

These HiT guys are stating cardiovascular conditioning is NOT warranted under ANY conditions.
You and I both know both are needed. Eccentric remodeling of the left ventricle is not possible with resistance training only regimes!

I’m sure you believe you do, but you don’t know how much you don’t know, or how much of what you believe you know is wrong.

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There it is!

Scott,

Name calling is next!

Funny thing,
Instead of discussing cardio, Drew went into great lengths on his personal workouts, as if anyone cares.

Intellectual dishonest tactic #two

Change the subject!

About 5 years ago…i went thru a stress test at my cardiologists office…my heart doctor told me my cardiovascular system was excellent

At the time, all I ever did was mentzers heavy duty split routine, 3x/week…been years since I did any cardio (running, biking, swimming, etc) before that

I weighed about 225 so I knew I had too much fat on me and my food consumption was to high

My point Is my cardiovascular system was excellent according to the heart doctor, however, could I run a mile or swim 20 laps…hell no

I wanted to run a 5k in 2019, so I trained for it by running/walking for six months along with Dardens full body routine…did my first 5k in 37 minutes( nothing to brag about but I was proud of myself)

Nowadays, I train full body 2 to 3 days a week Darden style and run/walk 3x/week because I enjoy it…and I am sure my cardiovascular system is better than excellent…and now I weigh 202

Are cardio workouts necessary when you train like Dardens latest program…dont know and don’t care…do cardio if you want or don’t do cardio if you don’t want to…simple as that

Ok. So now we are heading into a polarization re cardiovascular conditioning? Am I the only one interested in having @DrewBaye here - as an authority on HIT - discussing HIT? I have yet to hear that HIT is equal to cardiovascular conditioning - and I don’t expect it to either. My first priority is to build solid muscle in a time-efficient manner. It just happens to be HIT. As a “side-effect” I’ve noticed I can carry my kids in static uncomfortable positions much longer now (even though they are older/heavier over time) and easily also walk the stairs to my apartment (3,5 stories, 70 stairs) with heavily loaded bags (similar to farmer’s walk) without any breaks - this I could not do prior to Dr Darden’s HIT (even though I ran a lot during my previous service in the military!). Btw, I could barely move during my years of high volume training - I was simply too deconditioned. And to add to the above equation - I am 46 years old today.

This must mean HIT does something for the cardiovascular system! Not in comparison with endurance activities, but nevertheless significantly!

So, eat me alive if you want to continue this vendetta. Back to the rotary torso, shall we?

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