I did! I stated my viewpoint in an unequivocally straightforward manner! Mano y Mano!
I simply do not kiss the backside trousers of anyone! Man up!
Bill DeSimone & Dr. Stuart McGill have repeatedly cautioned against repeated spinal flexion and extension under loads, which deadlifts surely do! Is there a reason to deadlift if you do not compete?
I remember early on in my fabulous career of lifting, when a teenager I hurt my back doing dead lifts that laid me up for at least a week . Maybe I was doing it wrong ,who knows , but I came away from that thinking if it’s that easy to get hurt on, it’s not for me.
Scott
I was watching Bart Kay criticize Pavel on a Joe Rogan show. He is a complete quack! He is totally against steady-state cardio, although he never states any facts or logic against such! Much like HiTers, there is never any facts to support anti-cardio claims. Someone stated Kay handed Pavel his backside, which is typical of a juvenile HiT response to anything connected to cardio. We are still waiting for Drew’s revelations on cardio knowledge. The truth is, that HiTers know nothing about cardio, because Arthur and Ellington never covered the subject in detail!
Holy crap! Meat only diet! We go from McGuff’s caveman diet, to prehistoric meat only diet! Someday they may realize we live in a civilization where agriculture takes place.
Bart Kay dissing isometric planks is just bizarre. I truly hope that quackery from Kay and similar ilk never get a mainstream holding in HiT. Need I say SuperSlow!
Building mass and strength. Same reason I do every other lift. Since I’ve been deadlifting more I have better flexibility in my lower back and hamstrings as well. Spinal erectors and hamstrings have been two weak points, for me so I’m addressing them to make them bigger and stronger.
@average_al I never go to failure on deadlifts. I do some warm ups pyramiding up to a work set for the heaviest weight I can handle for a moderate rep range and stop about 2 reps short of failure to avoid form breakdown. I progressively overload on this every week.
Both are opposed to flexing or extending under heavy load, especially at the extreme ends of the range of motion. Neither have made a blanket condemnation of deadlifts.
For example: In his latest book DeSimone has the deadlift rated as a 3 star (out of 5) exercise.
To quote the book verbatim, page 48:
“Notes on the Deadlift: In the Optimal range, this movement is very useful practice for daily activities, in that the glutes, hamstrings, and quadriceps work actively while the muscles of the spine and shoulder girdle hold the posture statically.”
I can’t find a convenient quote which encapsulates McGill’s thoughts on the exercise, but from the various videos and articles I’ve read by him, I suspect that he would say that if you are going to deadlift heavy (as in competitive strongman or power lifting), you should only do it if you can maintain a neutral spine.
Dose makes the poison: Pulling a heavy barbell off the floor with sloppy form, and doing a lot of reps like that is asking for trouble. But you don’t have to compete or pull heavy barbells in order to execute a deadlift. In fact, it would be pretty hard for most people to go through life without occasionally grabbing something (relatively) heavy and picking it up. If you can’t avoid the activity in real life, some level of training or practice might actually be functional training…
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I wish you well!
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Thanks man! 
And yet McGill consistently recommends the big 3 for the core!
- curl up
- side plank
- bird dog
Anyone here ever reflected on the various ways on how to do a “deadlift”? Many use their glutes and quadriceps (hips) to move the weight, in a sort of squat alike combination. Funny though, this is how I was taught to do it some 30 years ago. Maybe that is why there is better excercises for the lower back specifically?
I have shifted for a careful variation of straight leg deadlifts, but don’t like the feeling. Love squats though, which makes this reply one of the more contradictary ones.
Btw, I have also checked out Bart Kay, and to be honest, his tactics reminds me of more than one psychiatric patient I have met. Quite simply a very unpleasant person that feeds his own ego by terrorising others, who are unable to respond since it’s a one way judgement (through Youtube). Does he even train? If he were half as successful as he likes to declare, he wouldn’t be on the small scale threads he’s active on. This guy just loves telling people what a “successful” researcher he is, by stating his merits, to anyone raising questions. That being said, I have a hard time finding any similarities with Bart Kay and the HIT community. Arthur Jones was an entrepreneur (that learned from his mistakes). Bart Kay is a quack indeed. I would love to have him on here, to meet my accusations, for your entertainment.
Yep…i used to deadlift 450lbs, was strong as an ox until I hurt my back…had to quit the deadlift
Went to the Al Gerard Trap Bar 30 years ago. Never a problem with it. Would highly recommend it, or a Hex bar. Don’t care what Mark Rippetoe has to say about it. With other bars and tools I have, seldom use the regular Olympic bar for much more than the barbell curl, reverse curl or behind the back wrist curl.
Where do people come up with these Bart Kay type fellows ! Never heard of him and don’t think I want to.
Scott
It was @atp_4_me who brought this up, thus enriched my life with yet another peculiar character I could have done without.
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So, to try to get this thread back on track, Is the Rotary Torso worth it?
You don’t like taking secondhand advice at face value from a fitness “authority” you’ve never heard of rather than using your own judgment and personal experience??
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Yes, it is. IF you have everything else you want covered. It would be one of the last machines I’d add. All the static exercises for the mid-section are fine. But I still believe in taking those muscles through a safe range of motion with resistance. Done slow and smoothly, I don’t see a problem with using a rotary torso. We have one in our junior high school weight room and I use it all the time.
Explain to me how the seated (on the floor) Russian med ball twist is a safe, good exercise, but the Nautilus Rotary Torso is bad. I see the rotary torso as a much better movement. Like a lot of other exercises, it’s how it’s performed that can make it dangerous.
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Guess you never read Project Total Conditioning( it is more than 2 pages). And you should tag @DrewBaye if you want his attention
A project is just a project, even if 100 pages!
Drew has had ample time throughout the years to present a factual anti-aerobic paradigm! He or no one else has! What could possible change at this late date? He is no researcher, nor has proper credentials to come for meaningful conclusions on aerobic conditioning!
There is plenty of evidence that properly performed strength training can provide the same or better improvements in cardiovascular and metabolic efficiency compared to steady state activity.
Not going to waste my time explaining this here to someone who seems to have already made up their mind about it. Ell knows, and is more than capable of doing so if he wants to.
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