I need to strengthen my scapular retractors and have been using a chest supported row machine at a friends gym (keeping elbows locked and squeezing blades together). It was getting the job done, i think, but my current gym does not have one and i REALLY do not like cable rows for this job because i find it hard to focus on the task at hand (other muscles come into play).
I tried doing SRs’ with freeweights bent over but find it hard to contract my shoulder blades (as i usually do with bent rows anyway). Recently i started doing a elbows locked inverted row on the smith machine (thats what its for, right:)and DAMN, i find it so much easier to retract/protract my scapulae.
I find full on inverted rows much nicer than a barbell bent row because of this-i really feel my scaps retracted when pulling.
For protraction i know gravity is helping out but why would it be so much easier for me to retract them on the way up?
Try neutral grip face pulls at a cable station, or rear lateral raises while laying face down on an incline bench.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Try neutral grip face pulls at a cable station, or rear lateral raises while laying face down on an incline bench.[/quote]
You know, i have experimented with face pulls and although i do like them it seems that my humerus keeps going back after my scapula has stopped retracting (something Robertson and Hartman mentioned there recent article). In short, it seems like these are not the most effective for me as far as scapular retraction is concerned because the rear delts kicks in too soon, i think.(plus they kind of bug my elbows).
I may give the rear lateral raises a try as i used to do them in PT. One thing i wonder regarding scapular retraction exercises (and exercise in general)is this: I am pretty tall but i have LONG arms. Movements that require full arm extension/flexion face pulls bent rows , push ups etc)usually give me trouble when trying to work the target muscles.
For instance, when doing push ups if i use my full ROM i find it very hard to keep tension on my chest,tris, and shoulder girdle.It seems like the longer limbs make keeping contraction of a muscle harder because of the extra ROM. I may be crazy but is this somethin longer limbed lifters tend to struggle with? I recall reading an article some time ago talking about this very subject An example given was a taller bodybuider may get better chest development from flyes (usually frowned upon) than the bench because it is easier for him to keep his target muscle contracted.
Just get a good warmup in with some scap pushups, wall slides, and reach, roll, and lifts. That will help get those retractors working the way they should during the workout.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Just get a good warmup in with some scap pushups, wall slides, and reach, roll, and lifts. That will help get those retractors working the way they should during the workout.[/quote]
thanks for the advice. do you have any links and/or descriptions for the reach,roll and lifts? I am familiar with the wall sliders from a Roberston article as well but i am still not sure how to do them correctly.
Hey, I think a good thing to start with if you seem to have some problems with scapluohumeral rhythm is doing exercises in which the scapulae are supported (closed chain). So for instance, doing a serratus anterior press with free weights. Lay on your back and hold dumbells above your head straight up. Then push up with the dumbbells as if you are reaching for something on the ceiling. You should feel support and yet still feel it working back there. Use whatever weight you can push 20 times.
After you get a little stronger then move to open chain exercises in which your scapulae are unsupported. Thats how I start out my physical therapy patients with this sort of problem. Hope this helps.
[quote]cskolnick wrote:
Doug Adams wrote:
Just get a good warmup in with some scap pushups, wall slides, and reach, roll, and lifts. That will help get those retractors working the way they should during the workout.
thanks for the advice. do you have any links and/or descriptions for the reach,roll and lifts? I am familiar with the wall sliders from a Roberston article as well but i am still not sure how to do them correctly.
[/quote]
Reach roll and lifts: Kneel down on the floor and bend at the waist with arms bent overhead. Your palms will be touching the ground in front of you. Extend one arm, rotate the palm up, and lift. Lower your hand, bring back the arm to the original position, and do the other arm. The range of motion will be very small at first, if anything. Do 5 reps/side.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
cskolnick wrote:
Doug Adams wrote:
Just get a good warmup in with some scap pushups, wall slides, and reach, roll, and lifts. That will help get those retractors working the way they should during the workout.
thanks for the advice. do you have any links and/or descriptions for the reach,roll and lifts? I am familiar with the wall sliders from a Roberston article as well but i am still not sure how to do them correctly.
Reach roll and lifts: Kneel down on the floor and bend at the waist with arms bent overhead. Your palms will be touching the ground in front of you. Extend one arm, rotate the palm up, and lift. Lower your hand, bring back the arm to the original position, and do the other arm. The range of motion will be very small at first, if anything. Do 5 reps/side.
[/quote]
Sounds cool. I will give it a shot.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
cskolnick wrote:
Doug Adams wrote:
Just get a good warmup in with some scap pushups, wall slides, and reach, roll, and lifts. That will help get those retractors working the way they should during the workout.
thanks for the advice. do you have any links and/or descriptions for the reach,roll and lifts? I am familiar with the wall sliders from a Roberston article as well but i am still not sure how to do them correctly.
Reach roll and lifts: Kneel down on the floor and bend at the waist with arms bent overhead. Your palms will be touching the ground in front of you. Extend one arm, rotate the palm up, and lift. Lower your hand, bring back the arm to the original position, and do the other arm. The range of motion will be very small at first, if anything. Do 5 reps/side.
[/quote]
Also, should i keep my shoulder blades depressed for the movement or is little elevation ok?
[quote]kendra28 wrote:
Hey, I think a good thing to start with if you seem to have some problems with scapluohumeral rhythm is doing exercises in which the scapulae are supported (closed chain). So for instance, doing a serratus anterior press with free weights. Lay on your back and hold dumbells above your head straight up.
Then push up with the dumbbells as if you are reaching for something on the ceiling. You should feel support and yet still feel it working back there. Use whatever weight you can push 20 times.
After you get a little stronger then move to open chain exercises in which your scapulae are unsupported. Thats how I start out my physical therapy patients with this sort of problem. Hope this helps.[/quote]
Thanks for the post! I have never heard of scapulohumeral before so i will look more into it. Is the exercise you describe the same, essentially, as a scap push up but lying on your back? If so i can see how this would be better in some ways since you can add to the load as one gets stronger.
Also, are scapulohumeral rhythm and winged scapula one in the same? I never had a problem with winged scapula that i know of but as of late it has become more pronounced; when lying on my side in bed i can feel my shoulder blade poking up on my back.
How exactly does the serratus keep the scapulae tight to the rib cage? When i look at anatomy text books it seems like it would keep the outer part of the blade taught but winging seems to abduct from the body. How does this work?
Just let your arm move freely during the movement.
Hey there! Yeah doing the exercise against gravity increases the load but the more important part is that your shoulder blades are stabilized and that seems to be part of your issue from what you said. The serratus anterior originates at the upper eight or nine ribs and inserts onto the inner edge of the scapula. So when it contracts, it holds that inner border against the rib cage.
Therefore, for stability it is very important to stregthen. The rhomboid muscles which are between your scapulae (between the “shoulder blades”) also work to stabilize the scapula. Scapulohumeral rhythm basically means that you should have a certain movement of the scapula corresponding to certain degrees of arm elevation. If there is a decrease in muscel strength, this is usually affected and makes exercise ineffective. This is especially true if you are doing open chain exercise (in which the scapulae are not supported). That is why you should start with this exercise. Let me know if you want any more info!!
[quote]kendra28 wrote:
Hey there! Yeah doing the exercise against gravity increases the load but the more important part is that your shoulder blades are stabilized and that seems to be part of your issue from what you said. The serratus anterior originates at the upper eight or nine ribs and inserts onto the inner edge of the scapula. So when it contracts, it holds that inner border against the rib cage.
Therefore, for stability it is very important to stregthen. The rhomboid muscles which are between your scapulae (between the “shoulder blades”) also work to stabilize the scapula. Scapulohumeral rhythm basically means that you should have a certain movement of the scapula corresponding to certain degrees of arm elevation. If there is a decrease in muscel strength, this is usually affected and makes exercise ineffective. This is especially true if you are doing open chain exercise (in which the scapulae are not supported). That is why you should start with this exercise. Let me know if you want any more info!! [/quote]
Wow, thanks for the info. Looking at anatomy texts (and because the serratus is visible anteriorly) had me thinking that the serratus pulled the scapula around the rib cage, not taught against it on the back. Maybe i need a more detailed anatomy book ;0
One question though: You say one’s shoulder blades arestabilized regarding the exercise you mentioned. Is this because your blades are on a surface as oppossed to a scap push where they are in the air? I thought it was the other way around.