[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
OK, you win (hope I can sleep tonight!)
Nuttall wrote:
Since it’s obvious that I have won the challenge via forfeit, I have a few questions and comments for the board:
[/quote]
Charles that Nuttall guy really put a cap in your arse on that one…I don’t know but I think he’s calling you ‘yellow’?
First of all, to Mr. Staley and all of the other not-so-helpful contributors to this thread, I would like to ask you to take this penis-waving contest elseware. I posted asking for advice, and if that’s not what you’re here to give then I’d appreciate it if you left the conversation.
That having been said, here are the requested stats on me.
I’m 17 year old, 6’1 or so, and about 200-205 pounds. I’ve been training for less than a year but have always been a fairly good athlete. My best lifts are:
ATG Squat: 335
DL: 405
Pullups: 3 with BW+100 lbs
Vertical Leap: 30-31"
I’m not very reactive and I attribute this to too much time in the gym as of late. However, I can generate force very quickly and have a tremendous block start.
I’ve recently started track and field for the first time and am learning the jumps. The triple jump in particular is giving me problems. You see, when I go LLR in the TJ, I only go 12-9-14 feet for each jump. But when I go RRL for the TJ, my first leap is nearly 16 feet in length, but I’m unable to absorb the landing with the right foot. How should I go about fixing this?
Thank you,
RJ
[quote]squattin600 wrote:
climbon wrote:
As squattin said, you can mix Mag and Dur. I am assuming that you have been doing a good bit of Mag work in training for your events. That is why I was recommending a pure strength block, but I could be wrong. This is where it would be nice to know your previous training and see how you perform.
For the warm up, I would suggest a dynamic warm up (some video clips are on the inno-sport site under restorative warm up and there are examples on this site). As part of this, you want to perform exercises at an easy intensity that you will be using during your next cycle. That way you do not waste time learning a new movement and limit your progress.
As far as reactivity goes, you can do any RFI activity (low box speed jumps, four square, side to side jumps, etc.) as part of your warm up.
Squattin is also right, ISO’s and ADA’s should help with stiffness.
I think that using DUR methods as a “deload” from all the rate and mag work may be a good idea, or a GPP block of Rate and Dur for 25-40 seconds may be good. Do a bunch of prehab stuff in the dur work and some light Rate work (skips, ladders, etc…) not worrying about absolutes or drop offs, just conditioning, injury prevention, and recovery[/quote]
I think I posted earlier that he should probably take a week or two (minimum) off after his season ends to help deload as well. I also agree that either strength or a GPP block should work for him. I think both will work on some of the issues with stiffness that he seems to have from what he has said. He may be better off using drop offs during the GPP block. This is based on a gut feeling because I think he might overdo it without the drop offs. Either way, I think he would obtain results.
Sorry, I forgot to post the info on my prior training.
Back when I first got into weight training, I used a modified Westside program. Shortly thereafter, I began to make my own full body programs. I gain strength very quickly, but due to numerous, non-training related injuries, I’ve had some setbacks. Most of my weight training involved going heavy, though I did do power snatches for a while and can now use a bit more than my BW.
Recently my training has been dictated by my track coach. This is her first year coaching in a brand new school and she knows absolutely nothing. We do intense plyos and sprints 5 days a week and do a meet on Saturdays. I’m seriously over reaching right now and I can’t wait for the season to end so I can take my training back over. During the period she’s been coaching me my performance has dropped. I’ve lost about 3-4" on my vertical and my joints hurt constantly. I know that my performance troubles (the buckling knee) could actually just be due to extreme fatigue.
I got into Inno-sport just before the track season and have since read the book at least 3 times. I’ve also read all the Inno-Sport related articles and feel I have a very good grasp on the material.
That about sums it up.
RJ
Ugh… looks like what happens every time DB’s name gets brought up has happened again.
Personally, I don’t think DB is real either (I think it’s Nuttal), but personally I don’t really care. I have the book, I’ve read it a couple of times and I love some of the things it has to say.
Brad I hope you don’t mind me pasting this, but I thought this was one of the best paragraphs in the book and this basically sums up the entire system (except AREG) pretty well.
“Adding on to what we learned in the previous chapter, RFM is composed of contraction rate and transmission magnitude. DFM is the beneficiary of transmission duration and transmission magnitude. Lastly, MFM is the intricate function of the system to optimize the static-spring effect on top of a harmonic balance between transmission magnitude, DFM, and RFM. In simple terms, RFM is synonymous with velocity(or speed), DFM is likened to strength, and MFM is the ability of the athlete to act with or against maximum force. In between the MFM function and the higher rate RFM function, within the neuro-rate window, the existence of power is realized. Thus, you will learn how to develop supreme speed, peak power, absolute force, and maximum strength!”
Basically what they’re trying to say is that there are essentially three ingredients in all sporting endeavors:
Rate of Force Manipulation (RFM)
Duration of Force Manipulation (DFM)
Magnitude of Force Manipulation (MFM)
Having good RFM basically means that your nervous system can send a powerful signal (transmision magnitude) that is rapidly turned into muscle contraction (contraction rate.) DFM means that you can sustain that neural output for a degree of time. After that, he is saying that MFM, which is obviously the “end-all, be-all” for speed/power athletes, is a result of having a nervous system that can send a powerful neural signal (transmission magnitude), that intitates a quick, powerful contraction (RFM) and sustain that for the desired period of time (DFM). I would like to find ONE person that disagrees with that. Seriously. I would like one person on this board to tell me that the information contained in that paragraph is false.
The purpose of the Inno-Sport system (at least, it seems so to me) is try to provide a framework and a language through which all training can be organized. The elite coaches out there have found out (through trial and error) exactly what works in a given situation for a certain type of athlete. Well what about the coach that has to work with different types of athletes? What about the coach that doesn’t have the luxury of picking and choosing athletes who naturally have ridiculous neural output and super-quick contraction rates so all they need to do is get stronger and their performance rises? What Inno-Sport is trying to do is say, “Look, these are the elements that are neccessary for sporting success. Here are tests to diagnose what your deficiences are. Here are the methods you should do to bring them up and how to arrange them into a training cycle.” Sure they could do it in simpler language, but why? Do doctors say, “Yeah, dis here boy’s got a durn broken finger.”? Or do they say, “The patient has a hairline fracture in the 5th metacarpal neck.”? Why NOT try to define something as accurately as possible? Sure, not EVERYBODY is going to understand EVERYTHING right away, but ANYBODY with half a brain that really tries to understand the system can grasp the basics in less than 30 total hours.
Or wait, maybe we should all just get on the BFS program??
CS, if a college student with not that much training background can absorb this information enough to implement a training program and make some great gains, what does that say about you?
It either says that you are lying when you said that you’ve made a sincere effort to understand the methods and their application or that you can’t figure anything else out other than trying to do more work in less time.
I think it’s the former.
P.S. I think I’ll be starting another thread with my training log, RJ I encourage you to do the same! Brad hopefully you can put up with all the detractors to see that there are people who really like the work you put out and you can chime in every now and then on the logs. I think I’m looking forward to your DVD even more than Magnificent Mobility!
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
Yeah Jumanji, I think I am pretty heavy for a triple jumper. The best one on my team is 6’3" and about 175, so there’s a size difference.
And to Climbon, I didn’t know I could warm up with RFI. Doesn’t that confuse the nervious system during a DUR block? Also, would some box jumps be an okay part of the warm up, as long as I didn’t cause any fatigue?
RJ[/quote]
I suggest you read the Reader Mail by Brad Nuttall. There is one of them where he talks about restorative warm up and proper sequencing of your workout session. It will answer your questions and give you even more information.
My suggestion is to perform one RFI exercise and one ADA or FDA exercise as part of your warm up if you are doing a strength block. The reason I recommend ADA or FDA instead of the box jump (I assume you are talking about depth jumps) is that you need to absorb force/power first. From a previous post, it sounds like you have some issues with force/power absorption. If you did choose to do an ADA exercise, you would keep the box height very low. Remember this is not to increase your force/power absorption, but to warm up and learn the movement. This way when you switch to your power block, you can move directly to the appropriate box height for you without wasting time learning how to correctly absorb the landing.
jtrinsey, that was a good section of the book to post. I just wish others would take time to look the system over and really try to understand it. If they did, none of them would have reason to criticize the clearly great information Inno-Sport provides.
Also, when my season does get over, and I take a few weeks off to allow my body to repair itself, I think I will post a training log. With any luck, I’ll get good enough results to silence the DB bashers once and for all.
Until then,
RJ
One question about altitude drops, I know split squat landings have a tremendous carryover to sport, but would they be more/less/equally effective as the normal athletic squat stance for peaking absorption to increase vertical jump performance.
[quote]climbon wrote:
I think I posted earlier that he should probably take a week or two (minimum) off after his season ends to help deload as well. I also agree that either strength or a GPP block should work for him. I think both will work on some of the issues with stiffness that he seems to have from what he has said. He may be better off using drop offs during the GPP block. This is based on a gut feeling because I think he might overdo it without the drop offs. Either way, I think he would obtain results.
[/quote]
I think that since he may be new to drop offs, perhaps he should use them in GPP so he gan get aquainted. Good Idea Climbon
[quote]RJ24 wrote:
First of all, to Mr. Staley and all of the other not-so-helpful contributors to this thread, I would like to ask you to take this penis-waving contest elseware. I posted asking for advice, and if that’s not what you’re here to give then I’d appreciate it if you left the conversation.
RJ[/quote]
well put
[quote]Nuttall wrote:
Then, the coach catches wind of this and calls you out. He offers you a chance to substantiate your gripe and prove your “eliteness” as a coach all in one shot…but you back down.
Why?
[/quote]
Why does DB backdown?
why dont you awnser the questions about DBs existance
Why cant DB read german?
If db’s system is so fantastical, and he has produced volumes of extreme athlete, why has no-one ever offered up a single name of one of these athletes?
Who fucking cares? the program is solid…thats what this thread was supposed to have been about. Seriously, can people talk training? Worrying about who DB really is can be found in the soap opera forum over on estrogen.net
RJ, I’m assuming that you have, however if you haven’t, definitely check out Chris Korfist’s articles on inno-sport.
[quote]RonnieM wrote:
One question about altitude drops, I know split squat landings have a tremendous carryover to sport, but would they be more/less/equally effective as the normal athletic squat stance for peaking absorption to increase vertical jump performance.[/quote]
All things being equal, I think the athletic squat stance will probably be more effective at increasing countermovement jump (CMJ). Of course, you can also play with the depth of the squatting position to work different weaknesses. However, if you are mostly pushing off of one leg when you do the CMJ, the split squat may help to even the playing field so to speak and lead to better performance of the CMJ. Jumanji, squattin or anyone else, please correct me if I am wrong!
Read the Torsion Training article at Inno-sport. It gives a progression of force/power absorption that will help with on-field performance that is recommended by DB. It is the best article that I have read related to on-field performance. Then you can use those principles to set up your own progression for other athletic attributes.
It is pretty obvious that the person(s) behind the inoo-sport system are dishonest.
Some of their methods are interresting, but how do we know they work?
The originator is a fictional caracter (DB Hammer? Come on…).
His high tech compound doesn’t exsist.
he doesn’t know German, though he supposedly is german?
The material is very poorly written. The “translation” by Baggett shows it is indeed possible to present this knowledge in an understandable manner.
With the Russian training manuals the poor language is understandable, in this case it is either because of no editing or simply to sound more “scientificalisticiometric”.
The invention of new words and definitions is horrible and confusing.
Siff has done a good job of outing many inaccuracies and pointing out where he invents new defenitions and words for no apparent reason.
The links require you sign up for google groups, but it is well worth it. The ability to search supertraining newsgroup is worth it. Mell Siff’s free advice and thoughts easily accessed through google.
A little outtake:
[quote]<So, locate the underlying deficiency (Neuro-Dynamic Efficiency) and you will
be able to perpetuate growth much further into your future sporting
endeavors. It is like cooking; you can keep mixing ingredients together and
sometimes you will hit and sometimes you will miss, but the goal in training
is to know why you hit or miss- this is how you produce long-standing
results. Anyone can get it right some of the time, but in today’s fierce
competitions, and especially if you entered this world with inferior athletic
traits, you must eliminate future errors early on in your training career.
This is done via specific ND deficiency location. Trust me on this one, any
drunken Scottish chap in a kilt can dance the jig, but not all of them even
know where to start when their sober. >
Mel Siff:
*** Whenever one tries to establish some sort of special credibility by the
use of guruesque jargon which is not supported by any scientific proof, the
astute reader ought to immediately be very cautious about what is being o
ffered, especially if the text is filled with unsubstantiated claims and
emotive language. He is claiming to have some special ability to be able to
measure “neurodynamic efficiency”, something that no scientist or clinician
has ever been able to measure, even with invasive or evoked potential
studies. Let’s see the relevant references to show that he has information
which transcends the combined efforts of all the world’s greatest
neuroscientists and physiologists.
DB Hammer:
<Auxometronics is a method that I established out of necessity to expedite
lower body power development. The pre-requisite for administering such an
application is primarily frictional strength, so as to prevent injury, but it
is also crucial to have moderate- to high- pre-elastic development. The
athlete must also master force absorption criteria before experimenting with
such application; including proper NDE conditioning. (Contact me for more
information!)>
Mel Siff:
*** “Frictional strength”? Now I have heard it all! Is he referring to the
action of the contractile elements of the muscle complex as opposed to the
series elastic components (SEC) or parallel elastic components (PEC) or is he
referring to Arthur Jones’s concept of some special type of “muscle friction”
that helps one ‘lift’ greater loads under eccentric conditions? (of course,
Jones forgets that the greatest force is produced under ballistic, explosive,
elastic actions, not simple eccentric movement, provided the period of neural
excitation is long enough). DB Hammer certainly needs to elaborate on this
issue. Others might like to comment on his use of the guruesque marketing
term “auxometronics” being used to sell his variation of some aspects of
stretch-shortening and PNF training. Yes, some of us know that “auxotonic”
refers to any movement in which the length and tension of a muscle are
changing concurrently, but is he using his term as a synonym for this fairly
well-known German and Russian word or is he implying something else? Anyhow,
we all know that it is easier to sell any concept if you create some special
language and mystique about a system that has been known for many years in
different clothes.
[quote]scan7 wrote:
Some of their methods are interresting, but how do we know they work?
[/quote]
Ummm… because we’ve tried them?
Seriously, what is so ridiculously out there about Inno-Sport, I don’t understand it?
I’ve seen a million coaches advocate clapping pushups or depth jumps, but people freak out about an REA bench or squat?
Take two coaches, one says, “Ok, everybody is going to do 10 sets of 5 depth jumps from a 30” box height." One conducts a test to find the optimal box height to jump from and attempts to monitor how much fatigue is adminitered by each set of depth jumps and the commensurate degree of performance improvement that is seen in later sessions. Which coach is approaching things more logically?
The scientific method basically is:
That sounds a lot like what the Inno-Sport guys preach:
Please point out any flaws in that system.
[quote]scan7 wrote:
It is pretty obvious that the person(s) behind the inoo-sport system are dishonest.
Some of their methods are interresting, but how do we know they work?
The originator is a fictional caracter (DB Hammer? Come on…).
His high tech compound doesn’t exsist.
he doesn’t know German, though he supposedly is german?
The material is very poorly written. The “translation” by Baggett shows it is indeed possible to present this knowledge in an understandable manner.
With the Russian training manuals the poor language is understandable, in this case it is either because of no editing or simply to sound more “scientificalisticiometric”.
The invention of new words and definitions is horrible and confusing.
Siff has done a good job of outing many inaccuracies and pointing out where he invents new defenitions and words for no apparent reason.
[/quote]
Brilliant. These guys could of just taken the tried and trusted route of clearly and concisely presenting their ideas, research, methods and results to the public. They choose instead to take the route that is becoming more and more common these days…fabrication, misinformation, deceit and dishonesty with the clearly false assumption that they were smarter than those they sought to deceive…well from the look of their threads which seem to be infecting this site they do seem to have used the Jedi mind trick on a few of the less intellectually gifted members on this site and elsewhere…but fortunately any chance they had good ideas or bad they will forever be tainted. Keep an eye open as like others before them they’ll probably slither away to reinvent themselves before returning.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
scan7 wrote:
Some of their methods are interresting, but how do we know they work?
Ummm… because we’ve tried them?
Seriously, what is so ridiculously out there about Inno-Sport, I don’t understand it?
I’ve seen a million coaches advocate clapping pushups or depth jumps, but people freak out about an REA bench or squat?
Take two coaches, one says, “Ok, everybody is going to do 10 sets of 5 depth jumps from a 30” box height." One conducts a test to find the optimal box height to jump from and attempts to monitor how much fatigue is adminitered by each set of depth jumps and the commensurate degree of performance improvement that is seen in later sessions. Which coach is approaching things more logically?
The scientific method basically is:
That sounds a lot like what the Inno-Sport guys preach:
Please point out any flaws in that system.[/quote]
I always love these type of posts…you get about 30 people pointing out flaw after flaw…in the very thread that they are posting this type of question in…just go back and read the the post that the Minister for Disinformation from WHINO-sport posted regarding his supreme triumph over Charles Staley…that was a classic…he should of just started with…I bet my Dad would kick your Dad’s arse…because that is the sort of level his ‘repost’ was in. Mate you just go ahead believing whatever you want…this is not the sight you are looking for…we can get back to proper discussions regarding training…sorry I couldn’t help that…I just wanted to see if I could use the Jedi mind trick on you as well.
Heffernan, who are you to criticize it. Have you ever read/seen the book??? In my opinion, my friend, you are the one who is getting a “Jedi” mind trick played on. You just go ahead and keep squatting and benching and doing nothing else as I increase my PERFORMANCE.
[quote]Ze wrote:
Heffernan, who are you to critisize it. Have you ever read/seen the book??? In my opinion, my friend, you are the one who is getting a “Jedi” mind trick played on you. You just go ahead and keep squatting and deadlifting and doing nothing else as I increase my PERFORMANCE.[/quote]
Yeah mate…that’s just great…that’s just the response I was expecting. How many Olympics have you been to? Sorry…that’s unfair…How many world championships have you been at? OK…that’s a cheap shot…How many national championships? Now I’m really getting you below the belt…what did your man say…punching in the ovaries. What about this…how many sports and in how many countries have you produced athletes that have not just gone to these events but have actually WON medals/titles at them?
Oh yeah…you just keep it all about ‘performance’ and I’ll keep my head down actually working rather than spending my every waking hour dreaming about how to make myself famous. Mate I am happy to take the Pepsi challenge with you and or any of you merry men and I’d be happy to actually produce the evidence/results to back it up?
Feel free to bleet on in my absence because I don’t know about you but I actually work in the industry as well as studying so time isn’t something that I have a tonne of but for you guys I will make the time because having done nothing other than coach, study and compete my entire adult life I have seen all this crap before…I know in your little myopic world you guys think you are reinventing the wheel so you just keep on trucking and let me know when you get around to designing the chasis and the rest of your vehicle?
By the way I know the creator of your ‘system’ is German isn’t that right. I might know him because unlike a lot of you I actually trained and competed in Germany and the USSR both before and after the fall of communism. So you just gather your troops together comrade and when you are ready just let me know? I’m always ready to learn more and am happy to let you guys remove the scales from my eyes.