I'm Lost, Plain and Simple

Bigger Stronger Leaner Beginners
1

im not pleased with my current workout routine / diet, but i just dont know what to do, ive read up on plenty articles but all i need is a straight answer

im 16 years old, and weigh 145 pounds, and have been lifting for a little less than a year

i wanna stop my routine, but im so confused on how much i should eat and how much i should work out because there is so many different opinions im not sure what to think, my workouts are so time consuming too and im sure there is way better stuff out there that’s less time consuming

i also have bony ass shoulders, and little knowledge of good back or ab workouts

im sure regulars to this forum find posts like this to be redundant, but i could use some advice with somebody whos been in my shoes before

2

Firstly, Forget the ABs for now.

What is you goal? Are you looking for a target weight?
Supply Info such as Current Workout and Diet!

Your best bet for now is gain more knowlodge and read the stickies at the top of this forum section, Bulking etc.

3
  1. Read the stickies in this forum.
  2. Stop complaining like you are the only person in the world who struggles to meet their goals. That is true for 99% of us who bust our asses daily to achieve them.
  3. Ask a more concrete question (not open ended) and we will be glad to guide your.
  4. As said above, specify your goals, current workout an diet.
4

[quote]njrusmc wrote:

  1. Read the stickies in this forum.
  2. Stop complaining like you are the only person in the world who struggles to meet their goals. That is true for 99% of us who bust our asses daily to achieve them.
  3. Ask a more concrete question (not open ended) and we will be glad to guide your.
  4. As said above, specify your goals, current workout an diet.[/quote]

here is my current diet and current routine
monday (biceps and back)
alternate db curls
barbell curl
db rows
this lower back workout that i dont know the name for, but it involves hugging a plate and bending up and down on this incline bench thing
t bar rows

wednesday (triceps and chest)
db flat bench press
db incline press
db decline press
skullcrushers
triceps rope pushdown

friday (legs and abs)
back squats
leg press
calve raises
weighted crunches
leg raises

im aware working out abs once a week with only 2 workouts is useless, but i didnt realize this until recently
im also going to start dead lifting, but im also confused on what deadlifting works out the most

my main goal is to have a good balance of physique and strength, and gain lean muscle mass

my diet is 5 small to medium sized meals a day, and a whey protein drink when i wake up, pre workout and post workout

ive also been wondering if my diet should be the same on days i dont workout, and if i drink protein on days i dont workout also

i also went to the grocery store yesterday and got everything you see on the food pyramid pretty much, im trying to have a clean diet but have a high calorie intake

5

If you took out one of the chest presses and put in a shoulder movement your workout would be fairly effective. Also do your leg presses with your feet up high and wide(toes off the end) to hit the hamstrings hard. Push pull legs has put on a lot of muscle for people.

Dead lifts are primarily a back and hamstring/glute movement. I’d put it on your back day in place of hyperextensions(the movement you couldnt name).

With your training your main objectives should be to become comfortable with the lifts form wise you have chosen and progress steadily in the amount of weight you can use safely. Nothing more, nothing less. Go from 135x10 squats to 315x10 squats and your legs will be bigger, make it happen for the whole body over time.

Diet is key here and at 16 there’s little chance it’s an effective one so post that up soon to get some advice. Chances are you aren’t eating enough, and not of the right foods so be prepared to rework a lot of things here.

6

Deadlifts will stimulate growth throughout your whole body, but you’ll feel it most in your back and hamstrings. Learn them.

You need to simplify your routine, you’re doing too many exercises per workout IMO. I suggest you do a variation of the squat, deadlift, and bench every workout. Just 3 exercises.

Honestly, everything you need to know is in the stickies at the top of the beginners forum. At 145 lbs, you should read through “bulking for newbies” first.

7

You are already over one of the toughest hurdles: Ego. When I was 16, I couldn’t begin to admit I didn’t know what the hell I was doing.

There’s a ton of great info on T-Nation.

ExRx.net : Home is another good one.

8

[quote]droozie wrote:
here is my current diet and current routine
monday (biceps and back)
alternate db curls
barbell curl
db rows
this lower back workout that i dont know the name for, but it involves hugging a plate and bending up and down on this incline bench thing
t bar rows

wednesday (triceps and chest)
db flat bench press
db incline press
db decline press
skullcrushers
triceps rope pushdown

friday (legs and abs)
back squats
leg press
calve raises
weighted crunches
leg raises

im aware working out abs once a week with only 2 workouts is useless, but i didnt realize this until recently
im also going to start dead lifting, but im also confused on what deadlifting works out the most

my main goal is to have a good balance of physique and strength, and gain lean muscle mass

my diet is 5 small to medium sized meals a day, and a whey protein drink when i wake up, pre workout and post workout

ive also been wondering if my diet should be the same on days i dont workout, and if i drink protein on days i dont workout also

i also went to the grocery store yesterday and got everything you see on the food pyramid pretty much, im trying to have a clean diet but have a high calorie intake

[/quote]

Your workout doesn’t even look that bad haha. It’s actually pretty good.

Honestly your problem is your diet. And by that I don’t mean you aren’t eating “healthy” enough, I mean you just plain aren’t eating ENOUGH.

I recommend keeping a daily calorie log for a few months at least since gaining weight obviously doesn’t come naturally for you – it doesn’t for me either.

You want to be gaining at a rate of about 3-5lbs per month, or 3-5lbs every 4 weeks.

If you can do that, and also increase the weights you are using on all the basic bodybuilding exercises (most of which you’re already doing which is great), then you will see yourself getting bigger over time.

As for the back workouts the basic exercises for back are chinups (or pullups), barbell rows, and deadlifts. Most people put deadlifts on their back days because of the benefits it provides for thickening the entire back and strengthening the lower back, but its largely a personal thing.

The back is a large muscle group, like the legs, so you tend to hit it with more sets than you would something like shoulders or even chest. In general you want to think of back exercises in terms of working the lats (this refers to vertical pulling exercises such as pullups, and lat pulldowns), and then the “thickness” of the back, referring to the erectors, traps, and all the little muscles (some people do trap work with back, some people do it with shoulders, its another personal thing. Some people don’t do it at all and honestly that seems to be just fine as long as you’re rowing and deadlift heavy haha)

In my opinion is does not look like you’re trying to do too much, although we don’t know how many sets you’re doing here or how you’re training with these exercises.

But… are you training your shoulders at all?

9

Want bigger/stronger upper body? Bench. Put more weight on the bar as often as you can.

Want bigger/stronger lower body? Fully squat. Put more weight on the bar as often as you can.

What to eat? Have a big ass carb breakfast, if you react well to this then have the majority (not all) of your calories come from carbs/protein. Don’t react well then majority of calories are from fat/protein.

Want to gain weight? Eat more while keeping in mind what macronutrients you respond well to (see above).

Done.

10

[quote]mr popular wrote:
droozie wrote:
here is my current diet and current routine
monday (biceps and back)
alternate db curls
barbell curl
db rows
this lower back workout that i dont know the name for, but it involves hugging a plate and bending up and down on this incline bench thing
t bar rows

wednesday (triceps and chest)
db flat bench press
db incline press
db decline press
skullcrushers
triceps rope pushdown

friday (legs and abs)
back squats
leg press
calve raises
weighted crunches
leg raises

im aware working out abs once a week with only 2 workouts is useless, but i didnt realize this until recently
im also going to start dead lifting, but im also confused on what deadlifting works out the most

my main goal is to have a good balance of physique and strength, and gain lean muscle mass

my diet is 5 small to medium sized meals a day, and a whey protein drink when i wake up, pre workout and post workout

ive also been wondering if my diet should be the same on days i dont workout, and if i drink protein on days i dont workout also

i also went to the grocery store yesterday and got everything you see on the food pyramid pretty much, im trying to have a clean diet but have a high calorie intake

Your workout doesn’t even look that bad haha. It’s actually pretty good.

Honestly your problem is your diet. And by that I don’t mean you aren’t eating “healthy” enough, I mean you just plain aren’t eating ENOUGH.

I recommend keeping a daily calorie log for a few months at least since gaining weight obviously doesn’t come naturally for you – it doesn’t for me either.

You want to be gaining at a rate of about 3-5lbs per month, or 3-5lbs every 4 weeks.

If you can do that, and also increase the weights you are using on all the basic bodybuilding exercises (most of which you’re already doing which is great), then you will see yourself getting bigger over time.

As for the back workouts the basic exercises for back are chinups (or pullups), barbell rows, and deadlifts. Most people put deadlifts on their back days because of the benefits it provides for thickening the entire back and strengthening the lower back, but its largely a personal thing.

The back is a large muscle group, like the legs, so you tend to hit it with more sets than you would something like shoulders or even chest. In general you want to think of back exercises in terms of working the lats (this refers to vertical pulling exercises such as pullups, and lat pulldowns), and then the “thickness” of the back, referring to the erectors, traps, and all the little muscles (some people do trap work with back, some people do it with shoulders, its another personal thing. Some people don’t do it at all and honestly that seems to be just fine as long as you’re rowing and deadlift heavy haha)

In my opinion is does not look like you’re trying to do too much, although we don’t know how many sets you’re doing here or how you’re training with these exercises.

But… are you training your shoulders at all?[/quote]

nope, i was thinking about just worrying about abs later down the line and make the legs and abs day a legs and shoulders day
the only shoulder workout ive done is the db military press, and ive only done it once

i was also thinking of scrapping my routine and starting mark rippetoe’s starting strength program
ive heard good and bad things about but im not sure if i should do it or not

11

Well ‘Starting Strength’ is a decent routine for beginners to do if they are looking to increase their powerlifts. It is recommended a lot around here because it is a routine that is very hard for people to screw up… it’s all laid out plain and simple.

But it’s definitely not the best routine for someone looking to jump into bodybuilding simply because it isn’t designed with bodybuilding in mind.

It is concerning that you don’t train your shoulders at all. haha You really should start training them for gods sake. Why would you NOT train them?

My recommendation would be a traditional push/pull/legs split, the kind that has gotten people big for decades.

But honestly man, you are making the mistake that EVERY BEGINNER ALWAYS MAKES. You are totally overlooking how crucial your diet is. The fact is you are not going to make ANY progress – you will not get bigger, you will have a very very hard time getting stronger… Z-E-R-O progress – unless you start eating enough food DAILY to gain weight at a regular pace.

You’ve got potential. Don’t waste it. You need to start with your diet and a basic bodybuilding routine, and go from there.

12

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Well ‘Starting Strength’ is a decent routine for beginners to do if they are looking to increase their powerlifts. It is recommended a lot around here because it is a routine that is very hard for people to screw up… it’s all laid out plain and simple.

But it’s definitely not the best routine for someone looking to jump into bodybuilding simply because it isn’t designed with bodybuilding in mind.

It is concerning that you don’t train your shoulders at all. haha You really should start training them for gods sake. Why would you NOT train them?

My recommendation would be a traditional push/pull/legs split, the kind that has gotten people big for decades.

But honestly man, you are making the mistake that EVERY BEGINNER ALWAYS MAKES. You are totally overlooking how crucial your diet is. The fact is you are not going to make ANY progress – you will not get bigger, you will have a very very hard time getting stronger… Z-E-R-O progress – unless you start eating enough food DAILY to gain weight at a regular pace.

You’ve got potential. Don’t waste it. You need to start with your diet and a basic bodybuilding routine, and go from there.[/quote]

i guess i just overlooked shoulders, but im planning on working them out from here on out and having a better diet
thanks a lot guys i appreciate it for all of your help

13

Hey diet wise i was kinda in your position earlier. I was thinking i was eating more than i was. I would highly recommend getting a food scale and weighing what you eat and use nutritiondata.com for the foods that don’t have labels enter all this data into a calorie tracker like fitday.com and I think this will really open your eyes

14

you know, T-Nation has many wonderful articles, and if you read them. . . you just might. . . . might . . . . learn something

15

[quote]mr popular wrote:

It is concerning that you don’t train your shoulders at all. haha You really should start training them for gods sake. Why would you NOT train them?[/quote]

Why is that a concern? He only weighs 145lbs! Besides, all the benching he’s doing is probably good enough for now.

OP, you need overall size first. Again, everything you need to know is in the stickies at the top. Here, I’ll post them for you;

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=487126

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=640350

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1766118

Read up. Be patient. Everything you need is there.

16

doosl: i’m not sure what you mean

Why is it a concern that this guy doesn’t train his shoulders AT ALL?

Why would chest training be good enough for shoulder training?

17

Replace the decline presses with shoulder presses, and also, I would add leg curls or a variation to the leg day. Then you are golden.

18

[quote]mr popular wrote:
doosl: i’m not sure what you mean

Why is it a concern that this guy doesn’t train his shoulders AT ALL?

Why would chest training be good enough for shoulder training?[/quote]

He IS training his shoulders, albeit indirectly. Most all bench variations stimulate the shoulders more than you realize.

I’m inclined to agree with Der Candy. If you want more direct shoulder work, replace one of the benching movements with military press, but like I said; at 145lbs the main focus should be overall mass using the “big three”; squat, deadlift, and bench press.

19

A lot of people seem to be under the (false) impression that just because someone is new to weight training they should be ignoring entire bodyparts and only doing a handful of exercises, and this will somehow build up a decent “base of size” that doesn’t have obvious lagging bodyparts and glaring flaws, as opposed to including all the traditional bodybuilding exercises such as barbell curls and calf raises. No no that would just be tooooooo much for any mortal to handle!!

What kind of results have you personally seen using this philosophy of yours?

Or in anyone else for that matter?

You are going to have a hard time even finding a powerlifter that doesn’t train their shoulders and all of the smaller muscle groups.

20

[quote]mr popular wrote:
A lot of people seem to be under the (false) impression that just because someone is new to weight training they should be ignoring entire bodyparts and only doing a handful of exercises, and this will somehow build up a decent “base of size” that doesn’t have obvious lagging bodyparts and glaring flaws, as opposed to including all the traditional bodybuilding exercises such as barbell curls and calf raises. No no that would just be tooooooo much for any mortal to handle!![/quote]

Whats wrong with someone new to weight training starting with a handful of exercises? If a beginner started with only squats, deadlifts, bench press, chins, and dips I guarantee you he’ll build a decent base of size that’s fairly proportionate. After that’s accomplished, lagging bodyparts could be addressed.

barbell curls and calf raises for newbies are fine so long as it’s supplemental and doesn’t take away from the major lifts. In fact, military press (which is a compound lift) would be an excellent exercise to incorporate into his particular routine.

My point was that his main focus should be on the compound lifts, and anything that detracts from that should be avoided. Wouldn’t you agree?

[quote]What kind of results have you personally seen using this philosophy of yours?

Or in anyone else for that matter?[/quote]

Personally, I gained 30lbs of muscle in about 4-5 months time (along with massive eating).

The “handful of exercises” I listed covers all the smaller muscle groups. Why is this even questioned?