If You're Not Lean Under 200 Lbs....

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
To PX, Bones, and CB:

As my avatar and screen name indicates, I am a powerlifter by training and my observation from all the rancor and rage demonstrated in this thread is simple…the three of you need to eat a goddam cheeseburger. Every post I have ever read from PX is angry as shit. This comes from too much dieting, over training, and never ever ever having sex.

To the OP:

My advice is simple, leave BB and come to the dark side. Lift heavy as fuck, eat what you want, and never step on a scale unless you’re about to compete against other men about to lift heavy shit.

To all the prospective flamers, yes pics, videos, and workouts are posted…so flame away.[/quote]

I have no idea who you are. And frankly, I dont give a shit who you are or what you have to say about me. But if you think there is any rage or rancor in my posts in this thread you are terrible at interpreting emotionless text. If you think I actually get angry or upset at things posted on the internet youre dumber than you sound.

Congrats on being an over weight middled aged man and justifying that by being a powerlifter. Well done on that front. [/quote]

Now see, there it is, some of that rancor and rage I was talking about. It’s all that dieting it took to get you down to a lean 170. I’m 5’7", 217, and while I don’t possess the marvelous six pack you boast in your skinny pictures, I can still see abs and lift big weight. BTW, when’s the last time a man or woman walked up to you and said, “hey, can I see your abs?” I bet you have been asked, today, “how much can you bench?” That’s a question I can answer without looking down at my shoes. But, you are quick to dole out criticisms about someone’s workout when you’ve never met them based solely an innocuous post about unintended weight gain. [/quote] We are all quite familiar with Pumped’s posting history… Doesn’t seem like you are. [quote]

Middle-aged, now that hurt.[/quote]

You listen to the man, Bonez, and show some respect.
He’s made it all the way to a mighty 365x6 raw squat, with pelvis tucking under at the bottom of every rep at 217 lb of bodyweight… After 25 years of training.

I totally see what he means by “lifting heavy as fuck and eating what I want”, but you, Bonez, have no clue about such things.

You take note, Pumped340.
Do it like our lawyer-friend here, eat a banana and an apple per day - yes, you may gain some fat with such a crazy large food intake, but don’t worry about it - and go to the gym for 24 years of your life before adding weight to the bar for the first time.

Wait, what?

Seriously, what am I missing? Cancer? Imprisonment in a concentration camp? Marriage?

What the hell did you do all those years, mr. 198? Or were you just trying to be funny? Hard to tell with people on the Internet…

[/quote]
When do you have time to lift when you’re posting upwards of 10 times per day? My best combined total is 1576 in a USAPL sanctioned meet at 198 in April 06. That qualified me for nationals where I admittedly got my ass handed to me by some real freakshows. Guys like Mike Bridges who is 50+ and still totals over 1700. My last sanctioned meet was in PA in March 2009 and I benched 468, squatted 551, missed 562 by an inch of depth, and pulled 551. This is sigle-ply poly so yeah you have to adjust. The squat you saw posted was two of three sets I put up to get some critique from another lifter who posts on this site. I’ve been lifting without a coach for 15 months and that shit sucks.

PX, I have nothing but respect for your accomplishments, but every response I have ever read from you is belittling and invariably circles back to talking about you. You’re accomplished, congratulations. How about spreading some of that wisdom for the benefit of the sport. As for you never getting laid, I was just messing with you, because you’re angry…all the time.

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[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:

[/quote]
When do you have time to lift when you’re posting upwards of 10 times per day? [/quote]

Not everyone is mentally deficient to the point where it takes more than a minute or two to post a thought. You hunt and peck the keys, don’t you?

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@pwrlifter198, what you fail to realize is that it is your perception that decides if someone is angry or not in your own mind. In the real world something like that is easy to recognize because of facial expressions. But you claim to recognize a few angry individuals on the internet through some text by only the use of some strong words…

Your logic is flawed.

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Post some progress pics, please. Do people really not own a camera or have the ability to put pictures on the internet? I’m not buying that shit. It’s the fucking 2nd decade of the 2nd millennium.

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[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:

When do you have time to lift when you’re posting upwards of 10 times per day? [/quote] I work from a computer situated right next to this one, and frankly type rather fast. That plus 35-45 minute sessions in the weight room and I’m not sure what you mean… [quote] My best combined total is 1576 in a USAPL sanctioned meet at 198 in April 06. That qualified me for nationals where I admittedly got my ass handed to me by some real freakshows. Guys like Mike Bridges who is 50+ and still totals over 1700. My last sanctioned meet was in PA in March 2009 and I benched 468, squatted 551, missed 562 by an inch of depth, and pulled 551. This is sigle-ply poly so yeah you have to adjust[/quote] I was wondering when you’d post your geared total. What does that have to do with anything? I can do a 1 minute google search to come up with some random natty bodybuilder who matches or even beats your geared total at the same weight… Raw.
And he looks like a bodybuilder (imagine that), too. Which is kind of the point in this forum and something you have not achieved at all.
There are several late-stage beginners and intermediate guys in the BOI thread alone who can match your raw lifts at fairly similar bodyweights, or even leave some of your geared lifts in the dust, again raw… And they have not been training for nearly as long as you have.

Now if you only started weight training at age 38 or something like that with no HRT (hell, even with HRT), then you’re doing great and I congratulate you.
But again I ask: What about the other 23-24 years?

[quote]
. The squat you saw posted was two of three sets I put up to get some critique from another lifter who posts on this site. I’ve been lifting without a coach for 15 months[/quote] What about the other ~24 years? [quote] and that shit sucks. [/quote] I can agree with that. Having someone experienced help you out helps a ton… Especially with such technique and flexibility issues which can cause your sacroiliac joint to rethink it’s life’s ambitions.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to belittle your accomplishments… But just because ol Jimmy is helping you out doesn’t mean you suddenly have his experience, physique or any knowledge of the post history of the guys in this thread and why they may react the way they do.
And this IS a topic that has nothing to do with your chosen sport either.

[quote]
PX, I have nothing but respect for your accomplishments, but every response I have ever read from you is belittling and invariably circles back to talking about you. You’re accomplished, congratulations. How about spreading some of that wisdom for the benefit of the sport. As for you never getting laid, I was just messing with you, because you’re angry…all the time.[/quote] You managed to miss all his early posts then, plus several advice threads etc… You’ve only watched the last scene of the movie here.

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[quote]Frank McGrath wrote:
You came to mind when writing some of my posts in this thread, after seeing your posts in the t-cell thread about fat set points. From your other posts I feel like we’re probably similar in how fast we gain fat, except I actually started off pretty chubby…you started relatively lean. So maybe I have you beat :slight_smile:

When you say your best lean gains were when training every day, do you mean some activity or actually doing a serious workout (with weights, not a “workout” like intervals or something) every day? What specifically did you do?
[/quote]

Frank, Frank…you should know all of this way better than I do, no?

Well, in a perfect world I’d have bullet-proof joints (and a harem, to boot, goes without saying, no?). And would lift accordingly:
total body, 6 times a week, keeping fatigue at a relative minimum. That way I’d be able to build muscle while losing fat, even at ridiculously low caloric intake (say, 30-40% of maintenance). Now, don’t argue with me. Been there, done that, worked perfectly. Except for my joints, since we don’t live in a perfect world.

Thus, your training needs to be perfectly adjusted to your physical properties and constraints imposed on you by your daily life. I know people who can still get away with training 6x a week, be it split or TBT (the latter works wonders in radical hypocaloric diets). They usually design their training so that no workout in a week is the same.

I’m a firm believer (by experience) in frequent training (provided your training is progressive in at least one metric), provided you don’t compromise your musculo-skeletal health. That’s where, after individual training programming (sounds so awesome, but is actually pretty basic) prehab stuff comes into play to keep the game going.

IMHO, nothing beats heavy lifting - done frequently enough AND with adequate volume AND progressively - in terms of energy demands AND building muscle. At least nothing you could do about 6 times a week. But there’s a catch: it’s demanding. I’m not intending to sound condescending, but that’s what it comes down to. After a lifting session, I’m usually not much use for anything for a couple of hours. Now, if I use a more traditional volume training approach, I can’t move without feeling totally sluggish. I may not be feeling sluggish at all when using fatigue management techniques (like clusters etc., read my T-Cell thread, C_C all but interrogated be on those), but my mind is kinda ‘slow’, afterwards. I can’t engage in demanding mental activities for a few hours. o_o

Before I started lifting, I used to run a lot, sometimes logging as many as 100 km a week.
Before that, I was doing some Karate.
I’ve also been a track-and-field athlete.

Apart from Karate, I’ve been driven with my sport activities and gave each my all. But those just can’t compare to my lifting in terms of general demand. Not even HIIT, which I thoroughly enjoy, can compare to lifting as I know and do.

So, excuse this long-winded text, but: can you say the same of your lifting? This isn’t specifically directed at you, btw. All guys I know who made serious gains, no matter their genetics (stick-man, sumo, whatever) train like that - from a demand perspective, that is.

Do your training partners or the people being in your vicinity while training make remarks about how your heads looks like it’s close to exploding, how you’re redder than a dick’s head and how fucking rad you look, practically every time you pick up some weights and do ya thang?

My girlfriend did (I trained at our flat), almost everytime she caught me training in the living-room. She used to switch between being worried about me, being worried about the furnitute and being worried about me grunting so much that she couldn’t enjoy the current Sex and the City episode. And she wasn’t too shy to point out how much sweat I sprayed - SPRAYED!, I say - all around myself.

@C_C
You’re too cruel, man. Now, that we’ve worked so hard to convince folks here that Germans aren’t such a bad bunch.

Hauen’se.

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:

If You’re Not Lean Under 200 Lbs…You’re Doing it Wrong.

[/quote]

I agree with this; especially if you’re 6ft tall. I’m 6 ft tall as well. What I don’t understand is why you won’t accept that you’re probably doing something wrong. Most notably not training intensely enough . Every time someone brings up a possible solution you respond with “I tried that, but it didn’t make much of a difference”. Maybe you didn’t stick with it long enough or gave it all you had.

But

If you’re 6ft tall and been working out for 5 years and if You’re Not Lean Under 200 Lbs…You’re Doing it Wrong.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ /thread

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[quote]FattyFat wrote:

[quote]Frank McGrath wrote:
You came to mind when writing some of my posts in this thread, after seeing your posts in the t-cell thread about fat set points. From your other posts I feel like we’re probably similar in how fast we gain fat, except I actually started off pretty chubby…you started relatively lean. So maybe I have you beat :slight_smile:

When you say your best lean gains were when training every day, do you mean some activity or actually doing a serious workout (with weights, not a “workout” like intervals or something) every day? What specifically did you do?
[/quote]

Frank, Frank…you should know all of this way better than I do, no?

Well, in a perfect world I’d have bullet-proof joints (and a harem, to boot, goes without saying, no?). And would lift accordingly:
total body, 6 times a week, keeping fatigue at a relative minimum. That way I’d be able to build muscle while losing fat, even at ridiculously low caloric intake (say, 30-40% of maintenance). Now, don’t argue with me. Been there, done that, worked perfectly. Except for my joints, since we don’t live in a perfect world.

Thus, your training needs to be perfectly adjusted to your physical properties and constraints imposed on you by your daily life. I know people who can still get away with training 6x a week, be it split or TBT (the latter works wonders in radical hypocaloric diets). They usually design their training so that no workout in a week is the same.

I’m a firm believer (by experience) in frequent training (provided your training is progressive in at least one metric), provided you don’t compromise your musculo-skeletal health. That’s where, after individual training programming (sounds so awesome, but is actually pretty basic) prehab stuff comes into play to keep the game going.

IMHO, nothing beats heavy lifting - done frequently enough AND with adequate volume AND progressively - in terms of energy demands AND building muscle. At least nothing you could do about 6 times a week. But there’s a catch: it’s demanding. I’m not intending to sound condescending, but that’s what it comes down to. After a lifting session, I’m usually not much use for anything for a couple of hours. Now, if I use a more traditional volume training approach, I can’t move without feeling totally sluggish. I may not be feeling sluggish at all when using fatigue management techniques (like clusters etc., read my T-Cell thread, C_C all but interrogated be on those), but my mind is kinda ‘slow’, afterwards. I can’t engage in demanding mental activities for a few hours. o_o

Before I started lifting, I used to run a lot, sometimes logging as many as 100 km a week.
Before that, I was doing some Karate.
I’ve also been a track-and-field athlete.

Apart from Karate, I’ve been driven with my sport activities and gave each my all. But those just can’t compare to my lifting in terms of general demand. Not even HIIT, which I thoroughly enjoy, can compare to lifting as I know and do.

So, excuse this long-winded text, but: can you say the same of your lifting? This isn’t specifically directed at you, btw. All guys I know who made serious gains, no matter their genetics (stick-man, sumo, whatever) train like that - from a demand perspective, that is.

Do your training partners or the people being in your vicinity while training make remarks about how your heads looks like it’s close to exploding, how you’re redder than a dick’s head and how fucking rad you look, practically every time you pick up some weights and do ya thang?

My girlfriend did (I trained at our flat), almost everytime she caught me training in the living-room. She used to switch between being worried about me, being worried about the furnitute and being worried about me grunting so much that she couldn’t enjoy the current Sex and the City episode. And she wasn’t too shy to point out how much sweat I sprayed - SPRAYED!, I say - all around myself.

@C_C
You’re too cruel, man. Now, that we’ve worked so hard to convince folks here that Germans aren’t such a bad bunch.

Hauen’se.

[/quote]

Excellent post

To reiterate; either do something else intense as well as lifting (e.g. HIIT), or do more lifting :slight_smile:

I can bulk up pretty “normally” for a natural (almost twice as much muscle as fat), but my brother blows up after eating what I diet on. One of the main differences is that he simply isn’t as active as I am. But intensity is a huge factor.

As a side note: I think that sometimes almost the reverse is true (what people are saying about needing to “push harder”). I noticed that after 8-12 weeks or so of “ball busting” in the gym, it served me well to take about 4 or 5 days off from training completely. It wasn’t enough lay-off to de-train/lose strength, but it dissipated the built up systematic fatigue. That of course is depending on how much you eat/rest, and training intensity. Once the system is recharged, you’ll feel more energetic and positive…ready to hit the gym with zeal again. Then you get a rebound/slingshot effect (lose more fat, build more muscle/strength).

Ones like CT say you don’t need to do this if you regulate, but not everyone is great at this (also, zeal to push harder in the gym can overcome logic sometimes).

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Wow… what a thread. Try throwing in a complex at the end of your workout. The coaches here have almost universally endorsed complexes as a method to increase fat loss (or as would be for your case, minimize fat gain).

If you are really pressed for time… I have one word for you: Tabata. How can you honestly say that you don’t have enough time when one Tabata round takes 4 minutes? Toss it on at the end of your workout.

There is always another way… train faster, harder, smarter, whatever the case.

Edit: the very existence of a method like Tabata which takes only 4-8 minutes lends some credence to the idea that “you’re doing it wrong”. You said yourself that you had good results with HIIT but normal cardio didn’t have a big effect. Well the trend in fat loss nowadays is definitely towards brief intense workouts (Tabata, complexes, sprints, etc). Success leaves clues, eh?

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lol CC some of your posts crack me up. Always calm and helpful too.

At pwrlifter198, I agree that professorX seems to get riled up about some seemingly normal conversation, but I don’t know why any of this thread would really relate to a powerlifter v. bodybuilder debate. Bonez on the other hand has never really come across as angry from what I can tell.

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

Well, in a perfect world I’d have bullet-proof joints (and a harem, to boot, goes without saying, no?). And would lift accordingly:
total body, 6 times a week, keeping fatigue at a relative minimum. That way I’d be able to build muscle while losing fat, even at ridiculously low caloric intake (say, 30-40% of maintenance). Now, don’t argue with me. Been there, done that, worked perfectly. Except for my joints, since we don’t live in a perfect world.
[/quote]

I certainly won’t argue that point. Seems insane to me, I really don’t understand how you could eat so little and work that hard and not lose muscle, let alone gaining it. But I’ve never tried something like that

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

IMHO, nothing beats heavy lifting - done frequently enough AND with adequate volume AND progressively - in terms of energy demands AND building muscle. At least nothing you could do about 6 times a week. But there’s a catch: it’s demanding. I’m not intending to sound condescending, but that’s what it comes down to. After a lifting session, I’m usually not much use for anything for a couple of hours. Now, if I use a more traditional volume training approach, I can’t move without feeling totally sluggish. I may not be feeling sluggish at all when using fatigue management techniques (like clusters etc., read my T-Cell thread, C_C all but interrogated be on those), but my mind is kinda ‘slow’, afterwards. I can’t engage in demanding mental activities for a few hours. o_o
[/quote]
I’ve read your thread. I actually did try the clusters for pull ups, reps got low very quickly though and soon I was doing just sets of 1-3 and it took maybe 8 sets or so to hit the total reps. Afterwards I think I went from being able to do 8 to 12-13 or something full ROM so it worked in that sense I guess (I’ve always sucked at pull ups…well compared to people who often do them). I remember thinking though that it didn’t feel like something I’d go back to, not sure why other than maybe I just didn’t like it lol, don’t know.

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
Apart from Karate, I’ve been driven with my sport activities and gave each my all. But those just can’t compare to my lifting in terms of general demand. Not even HIIT, which I thoroughly enjoy, can compare to lifting as I know and do.

So, excuse this long-winded text, but: can you say the same of your lifting? This isn’t specifically directed at you, btw. All guys I know who made serious gains, no matter their genetics (stick-man, sumo, whatever) train like that - from a demand perspective, that is.

Do your training partners or the people being in your vicinity while training make remarks about how your heads looks like it’s close to exploding, how you’re redder than a dick’s head and how fucking rad you look, practically every time you pick up some weights and do ya thang?

My girlfriend did (I trained at our flat), almost everytime she caught me training in the living-room. She used to switch between being worried about me, being worried about the furnitute and being worried about me grunting so much that she couldn’t enjoy the current Sex and the City episode. And she wasn’t too shy to point out how much sweat I sprayed - SPRAYED!, I say - all around myself.

[/quote]

Did you notice HIIT helped you stay leaner while gaining an equal amount of muscle? I ask about the equal amount of muscle part because I’ve seen some people say something like they gained fat only half as fast…but if they gained muscle half as fast as a result too then it’s the same end result anyway, but twice as slow.

As for how hard I’m working, after my last squat and row day I was absolutely trashed. I didn’t start walking normally again until today and my back was sore as hell too. When I would do front squats in front of a mirror my veins would bulge out and my face would get blood red. I’ve also had comments from my “spotter” (my sister when I was at home lol) as well but I can see and feel it for myself. Another thing I’ve noticed is even if I get cut or something during a set (happens sometimes if clanging against something) I won’t notice anything for a minute or so after because of the focus on the set. I’m sure many here may have experienced something similar

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

I agree with this; especially if you’re 6ft tall. I’m 6 ft tall as well. What I don’t understand is why you won’t accept that you’re probably doing something wrong. Most notably not training intensely enough . Every time someone brings up a possible solution you respond with “I tried that, but it didn’t make much of a difference”. Maybe you didn’t stick with it long enough or gave it all you had.

[/quote]

Because I know how intensely I train and I know that’s not the issue. Maybe training a different way (like FattyFat’s full body method, although that seems like a very anti-typical bodybuilding strategy, or more days per week) could do something, but no way do I not train intensely.

Also, you started out way leaner than I did so naturally you’re going to put on less fat than I do if we were to do the same thing. Pretty good calves from what I can tell as well, unfortunately my calves are the one thing I haven’t really been able to add any mass to.

[quote]boomerlu wrote:
Wow… what a thread. Try throwing in a complex at the end of your workout. The coaches here have almost universally endorsed complexes as a method to increase fat loss (or as would be for your case, minimize fat gain).

If you are really pressed for time… I have one word for you: Tabata. How can you honestly say that you don’t have enough time when one Tabata round takes 4 minutes? Toss it on at the end of your workout.

There is always another way… train faster, harder, smarter, whatever the case.

Edit: the very existence of a method like Tabata which takes only 4-8 minutes lends some credence to the idea that “you’re doing it wrong”. You said yourself that you had good results with HIIT but normal cardio didn’t have a big effect. Well the trend in fat loss nowadays is definitely towards brief intense workouts (Tabata, complexes, sprints, etc). Success leaves clues, eh?[/quote]

I’m not really sure about the HIIT honestly. As far as Tababta, it’s not that I don’t have 4-8 minutes, it’s that I question if it would really do anything. Like I said, regardless of what I do the proportion of muscle to fat gain is almost always the same. Sure I might burn more calories with tabata but then I might just gain weight at half the speed so in reality by the time I hit a certain weight I have the same amount of fat. That seems to be the case from my personal experience. I’ve had it before where I gained up to a certain weight with higher carbs and HIIT, then cut back down. When I bulked back up with a different routine, low carb diet, and low intensity cardio I got to the same weight with nearly the exact same waistline. I doubt that’s just coincidence.

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i wonder if i eat more Chipotle burritos I will get big and lean at the same time!

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

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at least it’ll let you stop looking like a g’damn pez dispenser

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I’m not really sure about the HIIT honestly. As far as Tababta, it’s not that I don’t have 4-8 minutes, it’s that I question if it would really do anything. Like I said, regardless of what I do the proportion of muscle to fat gain is almost always the same. Sure I might burn more calories with tabata but then I might just gain weight at half the speed so in reality by the time I hit a certain weight I have the same amount of fat. That seems to be the case from my personal experience. I’ve had it before where I gained up to a certain weight with higher carbs and HIIT, then cut back down. When I bulked back up with a different routine, low carb diet, and low intensity cardio I got to the same weight with nearly the exact same waistline. I doubt that’s just coincidence. [/quote]
What have you got to lose by trying?

You’ve made your point. The 200 number is pretty arbitrary (as it should have been obvious BEFORE a forum post and 6 pages of back and forth arguing). It’s possible your genetics just don’t favor getting big while getting lean. Why did you really care in the first place?

The main thing you should realize is that yes, you may have tried all these different methodologies in isolation, but the combination of a few may just be the “secret” you’re missing. E.g., try macronutrient cycling combined with normal strength training + HIIT style workouts at the end of each workout.

And the other thing is that 15-17% isn’t “FAT”. It’s not lean, but it shouldn’t be cause for concern. You shouldn’t be feeling grossly overweight or obese.

Edit: 15-17% isn’t bad at all given consistent muscle gain. I’m guessing the whole “if you’re under 200” thing is directed at people scared to go from 8% to 12% or people who overdo the weight gain side and go from 12% up to 32% or something equally ridiculous.

Finally, quite a few authors have mentioned that a person starting out at a lower bodyfat % will get a better muscle/fat gain ratio. Maybe it’s time to do a serious cut, maybe even V-diet. Then when you transition off, try e.g. macronutrient cycling.

In the end… what have you got to lose by trying? You sound as if you’re scared to experiment now (which is strange considering everything you’ve tried in the past).

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countingbeans, i have no idea why you decided to turn this into a personal attack against me… but, regardless, i’ll respond to your foolish shenanigans.

i don’t seem to recall ever mentioning that i look anything like frank zane. why you decided to “put these words into my mouth”, as you put it, shows me (and anyone else reading this who has 1/2 of a brain) just how childish, vitriolic, petty, and downright arrogant you are, sir. frank zane is the proud owner of one of the finest physiques in history… and, you know what? i’m guessing that if YOU looked anything like frank zane, you wouldn’t be attempting to bully (and failing miserably at it, i might add) people over the internet. if you looked like frank zane, you’d have better things to do.

i also can’t really comprehend your issue with me contributing to this thread, either… especially when i SPELLED IT OUT for anyone who decided to read my post. i never said the op was small… where did that come from? oh yes, for a moment i forgot i was dealing with a child. what the op and i DO have in common, however, are genetics that are apparently not ideally suited for this pastime… funny thing about that, though, is that we’re both still running down the dream, regardless.

by the way, that also negated your last point, as well… you know, the earth-shatteringly-brilliant one about acknowledging genetics, and their obvious role in ultimate bodybuilding success, as being tantamount to self-defeatism?

so, long story short, from where i stand, that would make your entire post… pointless.

bravo.

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mate iv been reading this for the last few days and it just annoys me that you always say “I tried that and it didnt make much differance.” if i try anything differnt theres always a differnt result. either good or bad mainly good cause im just a amature and everything helps one way or another.

but you just gotta sick with it for afew months. at least 3. im nearly 200 pounds, started out 170ish, im not that muscular but im not fat either, but im gaining muscle every year since starting training.

iv got mates that just started training with us and they are already as strong as me and there size is coming up real quick. i train harder then them but they have the genetics. it never stopped from going all out. i just stick at it.

As its said in Australia, “take a spoon of cement and harden the F$#@ up.”

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Another thread which is 10 percent of helpful info surrounded by 90 percent of shit involving the usual clowns.

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[quote]pumped340 wrote:

Did you notice HIIT helped you stay leaner while gaining an equal amount of muscle? I ask about the equal amount of muscle part because I’ve seen some people say something like they gained fat only half as fast…but if they gained muscle half as fast as a result too then it’s the same end result anyway, but twice as slow.[/quote]

This is where people get confused with cardio, you don’t do cardio (like HIIT) just to burn fat - it alters your hormone balance and can even improve recovery.

It’s not just a case of calories in vs. calories out…you alter the partitioning when doing intense cardio. You increase fat burning hormones without severely limiting anabolism (as long as you eat/rest enough and don’t over-do the cardio). So, yes, you do increase the muscle to fat ratio, and no, you don’t just increase weight slower with the same ratio.

Having said that though, the HIIT training does need to be INTENSE. I always got better results from HIIT when using sprinting/rowing, rather than something like swimming/crosstrainer/bike etc because you really can kick up the intensity (you’ve got to get that amazing adrenaline rush/buzz and push as hard as possible for 10 seconds or so). It’s this intensity that releases the “good stuff” even after the exercise is done.

If you’re muscle to fat ratio is crap, it’s usually common sense to do at least 2 cardio sessions per week (even if it’s just two 10min HIIT sessions after training). Even if you have a fast metabolism, you can still benefit from regular cardio as long as you eat enough and don’t overdo it. But as Fatty Fat did/does, he simply trains more often (another form of high intensity with intervals).

160

nevermind…

NOt worth it. He can’t hear Jimmy.